XANAX, ATIVAN, KLONOPIN, VALIUM, great info here

[Beachbabe]

Why was my post regarding the Ashton Manual removed when others mention how great it is (and it is) and their post remains.

Whats the deal? I take the time to post and reach out, not just to have my posts deleted. Our time is important to all of us.

?

Anyway, I said it once so I'll post it again. The Ashton Manual deserves to be considered by anyone wanting to get free from Benzos. Its a step down program with a good success rate.

With the manual, it is very comfortable considering with no risk of serious withdrawal symptoms like with C/T (which you can die from).

[RUNVS]

http://www.benzo.org.uk/manual/index.htm

heres the manual your talking about

[Beachbabe]

Yeah... that would be the one. Oddly enough, my post seems to have returned after I mentioned it.

[woops]

RUNVS
A huge congratulations on your sobriety from alcohol and from the dreaded benzos! Hope your recovery just keeps on getting better.............

[RUNVS]

Thank you woops you made my day!

[woops]

And you made mine!!

[RUNVS]

Another success story to help others that are suffering from benzos.




I am 47 years old and have been a successful attorney
for over 20 years. I am divorced with 3 daughters,
the youngest 12, who I have full custody of. I guess
I was always "anxious", which maybe is not the best
thing for a lawyer to be, but anyway I guess my first
problem arose when I developed a intestinal disease
(which I am sure was caused by stress!) when I was in
my late 20's, which led to some major abdominal
surgery when I was 33. For whatever reason, after
that surgery, I was even more anxious and started
having real trouble sleeping. My HMO doctor tried me
on Prozac but I got so wired from it that I
discontinued that and tried various over the counter
sleeping aids for a couple years until I went to a HMO
psychiatrist who, after a 5 minute consultation,
diagnosed me as having "situational anxiety" and put
me on 3 mg klonopin and 150 mg Trazadone. While I
guess I looked up on a PDR to see that Trazadone was
an anti-depressant, I don't remember even looking up
about Klonopin, certainly I never thought it was a
powerful drug and never understood that it was in the
same class as Valium, which I had taken off and on
over the years to relax. I never really thought about
the long term consequences of taking these pills, as I
was just so happy to find some immediate relief since
I started sleeping better and feeling better during
the day, without any real side-effects. I reduced my
dose of klonopin to 1 mg after about one year, and my
HMO doctor continued to prescribe these drugs to me
over the years, without much discussion.

Fast forward to mid-2003, when I just started getting
very tired and unfocused and, while I could perform my
job ok, I just was not motivated or very happy. I
thought my problem was from drinking too much, as I
had a brother who went into rehab and had been sober a
couple years and was convinced everyones problems were
rooted in alcholism, so I decided in early 2004 to
take a leave of absence from my job and go into an
out-patient treatment facility for a 30 day program.
My assumption was that I would be "all better" in a
month and everything would be back to normal! Boy was
I wrong!

The rehab center sent me to a hospital for a 3 day
detox. Without telling me why, they took me off the
klonopin and while I was in the hospital I was on a
small amount of phenobarbital. The whole detox scene
was a joke: here I was with major heroin addicts,
people taking 30 vicodin a day, people who were
drinking a gallon of alcohol a day. They were all
being pumped with all these meds (gorilla pills, they
called them) and I was the only one who wasn't all
druged up. It seemed like there was a competition
going on as to who was the worst addict, and here I
was trying to fit in, but my "addiction" paled
compared to the others: I maybe drank a couple drinks
at night, and had no idea at that point that my
problem lay in that little pill I was taking every
night to sleep!

I was so happy to get out of there after 3 days and
was actually feeling pretty good, and right when I was
leaving the detox center director cautioned me that he
just looked at my record (probably for the first
time!) and realized I was on klonopin and that "that
stuff is tough to withdraw from" and he urged me to
stay there for a while longer. My conclusion was that
he was just trying to tap my insurance for some more
money (which I am sure was at least partly right) and
I was actually feeling ok, so I left the hospital and
went to the rehab facility.

Well the long and short of it is that after a couple
weeks of "treatment" (12 step) I was feeling worse
than ever, whereas some heavy duty alcoholics and
heroin addicts were doing fine. I could barely focus
or function, and the director of the rehab facility
sent me in for blood tests, which came out normal, and
then started pumping me with vitamins, etc. The
"addiction specialist" doctor who was associated with
the center concluded I was "depressed" and put me on
neurontin, which barely helped me sleep at all and
had unacceptable side-effects such as groggiess.
(When I told him it was not working, he doubled the
dose!, which led me to a month of diarehea which he
thought was caused by a parasite and had my stools
tested, etc, until I discovered on my own through
talking to my pharmacist that it was the neurontin,
and the problem went away within one day!) There was
no way I could even think about going back to work,
and still thinking I was just recovering from alcohol
withdrawals, and not knowing what else to do, I
extended my treatment for another 30 days.

Around 2 months into my recovery, someone mentioned
something that made me wonder about klonopin, and when
I typed that word into my search engine, I found the
Ashton Manual which answered all my questions. I
couldn't believe that the symptoms I was experiencing:
brain fog, incredible insomnia, congnitive
dysfunction, head pressure, incredible anxiety,
electric shock experiences, unbearable fatigue, total
lack of joy, body pain at night (especially in my
legs), emotional blunting, were almost identical to
the symptoms of benzo withdrawal. Hell, I didn't even
know what a benzodiazapine was, let alone that
klonopin was in the same class of drugs as valium or
xanax, or that that little 1mg pill I was taking for
the last 9 years was equivalent to 20 mg of valium!
Nor was I aware that I should be tapering off the
klonopin, and here I was c/ted for the last 2+
months...what could I do? I found this site and asked
what should I do and basically I was told that I was
too far along to reinstate without some major
problems, so I was stuck in a cold-turkey recovery.
But still, how long could this last...it would have to
be over soon? I went to my "addiction specialist"
doctor and brought him the Ashton Manual. He told me
there was no way I was experiencing klonopin
withdrawal and denied that I should have slowly
tapered off the 1 mg I was on. (A real addiction
specialist who probably never dealt with benzo
problems in his career!) He continued to assert I was
depressed, and that was why I was so tired and
unfocused, and tried to get me to go on Wellbutrin.
Well this doctor had lost all his credibility, and I
knew I was on the right track following the advice of
the Ashton Manual, so I largely bid him goodbye at
that point. Over the next 9 months I explored many
treatments: yoga (which I found to be incredibly
beneficial in that it got me out of the house and some
exercise and some relaxation and some socialization),
sufi treatment involving healing and meditation (of
course I was so zoned out that I could not clear my
mind to meditate, but it was a nice diversion), detox
fasting, various therapists; unfortunately nothing
really worked: where some symptoms seemed to fade,
others took their place, but the primary symptoms
never waned for more than one day!

And of course my friends and my family didn't
understand. They all thought I was either suffering a
mid-life crisis, or that I was depressed, or that I
was just "weak". That was probably the worst, that
several of my friends said what I was experiencing was
the same as they go through ("I have trouble sleeping
too" or "I get tired in the afternoon" or "I have
trouble focusing" or "I am not interested in reading
the newspaper either"), but that they were somehow
tougher than me or that I was just being a baby! And
of course my ex-wife just used my illness to her
advantage: since I was not working, I was a
convenient driver and baby-sitter fot the kids 24-7.
I think you all know how difficult it was driving the
kids around in my condition--hell I didn't have the
energy to walk around the block, or open mail, or
change a light bulb, or water a plant--yet I had no
choice but to deal with my kids. At the end of the
day I must be grateful for what my ex did to me: it
forced me to go on living my life, despite the fact
that what I was living was pure hell! Thankfully my
youngest daughter, Carly, who has been with me
throughout this hellatious experience, was the only
person who understood that I was really sick: and
while she needed me more than anyone, I could count on
her not to be judgemental.

Then there were my parents! Without whom I would be
bankrupt. I would certainly have lost my house and
tapped into all my retirement. But, my dad was
impatient and, even after I let them know what I was
going and provided him a copy of the Ashton manual,
never really bought into my illness. (The same with
my brother, who is a prominent doctor: it is like no
one wants to educate themselves about what is really
going on, which is understandable since they have
their own lives, but is very frustrating when they try
to offer "advice" which disregards everything you try
to tell them!) So my dad tells me I have to get a job
or he will cut me off around one year into my
recovery: so I decide I will try to go back to
school, since there was no way I could go back to
work. So I take a couple classes at a local college,
can barely muster the energy to go to classes,
certainly cannot read a book, and drop out after a
couple weeks. Here I was, having breezed through
college and lawshool with pretty much straight A's,
and I can't even handle a junior college class!

ONLY ONE THING SAVED ME during the first year of
recovery: that was my guitar. I have played guitar
all my life, and picked up my guitar around 3 months
into my recovery, and where nothing else gave me any
relief, be it food, tv, companionship, I found that I
found total relief from playing my guitar.
Furthermore, where I may have written a handful of
songs over the 30 plus years I played, all of a
sudden, I had a burst of creative energy which led,
and continues to lead, me to compose over 50 songs
over the last year! Some of my religious friends say
"what god takes, he gives something in return if you
know where to look." For me it was my music! I don't
think I was ever suicidal, but many lonely nights and
days were spent playing songs and finding some level
of contentment, even at the height of panic attacks
with my heart beating a mile a minute, my guitar was
there for me!

Then I hooked up with an attorney to explore a
disability case. I am not going into the details
(since this is still in litigation), but I hate
disability insurance carriers: they are evil! It was
such an unbearable ordeal, at the height of my
withdrawal symptoms, dealing with these devils who
would demean me, question my honesty and integrity,
call me out of the blue and hassle me to try to get me
to drop my claim. But my attorney referred me to a
neuro-psychologist who performed some IQ type tests on
me in 2/05 and concluded my brain was not functioning
right. For the first time I had my illness validated
by someone in the medical profession. She referred me
to a neurologist who performed a series of tests on my
brain, all of which came out normal, except the sleep
study, which determined that I was suffering from
periodic movement of legs syndrome and restless legs
syndrome. No wonder I couldn't sleep and why I was
suffering from "cognitive dysfunction"...so finally I
had a medical validation for my disability: of course
none of the doctors believe it was caused by klonopin
withdrawal, but isn't it ironic that the treatment of
choice for this disorder is, you guessed it,
benzodiazapines! Of course, short of going on benzos
again, or some sleeping pill, there is no real
treatment for this sleep disorder.

Aroung this same time my momma died. She was 85 and
had a good life, and thankfully I was there for her
and my dad at the end. Unlike my brothers and
sisters, however, I realized that despite my symptoms,
which were still quite severe, I could cope with her
dying and was in many ways much stronger than anyone
else.
Whether by coincidence or not, around this time (the
13th month of my recovery) is the first improvement in
my condition. The brain fog and head pressure seemed
to fade, out of the blue. I was still suffering
extreme anxiety attacks and was getting no more than 3
hours sleep a night, etc. but I gradually noticed this
one area of improvement and later realized that it
happened at 13 months, just like vetarans in this
group predict.

Shortly after this, Paul Thornton of this group posted
his "success story", which happened to mirror my
experience, and I found renewed hope that I would
recover! Thanks Paul! I provided his story to my
family and for the first time they seemed to
understand what I was going through!

For the next 6 months I cannot say I was doing much
better though. I would still only sleep a couple
hours, wake up with major anxiety attacks and extreme
leg pain (which my neurologist claimed was due to my
leg movements and which I have found has been
significantly reduced by a small amount of codeine),
and have incredible problems focusing or socializing,
get extremely tired in the early afternoon, but if I
tried to nap, would wake up with electric shock
impulses and incredible anxiety which would ruin the
rest of my day! I sold my house 4 months ago, which
was way too big for me to keep up and which I couldn't
afford, and therefore got in a position where I had
enough cash on hand to keep me going comfortably until
I got better, and found that even though moving was
incredibly hard and stressful, I mustered enough
energy to get it done and it relieved me of a lof of
pressure. This may have helped more than I realized
since now I am renting and nothing bothers me as much
anymore!

But then, I swear, it was out of the blue around 2 1/2
months ago, one day I was down in Palm Springs doing a
project for my sister--manual labor scraping a patio
deck--I swear I did not think I could do it, either
pysically or mentally, I was there all by myself and
was worried as afternoon approached I would face the
daily fatigue that beset me and it didn't come! The
next day it didn't come, nor the next! And my leg
pain started diminishing and I started sleeping a
couple more hours every once in a while at night. (I
am convinced that my neuroglical condition has
improved and will ultimately go away: klonopin
withdrawal caused it and eventually once I have fully
healed I will prove the neurolgist wrong since I will
be the one who beat an incurable neurological
condition!) But most importantly, the anxiety attacks
have almost entirely disappeared: I swear, nothing
major has changed in my life...I am still lonely (I
have not been "well enough" to date much over the last
2 years) and none of my other personal issues have
improved much either, yet all of sudden, I don't
irrationally freak out and work myself up over
nothing! And this all happened around the 22nd month,
just like those crusty old veterans predicted!

I can't say I am all better, but I think you all can
attest that if you can be free of the symptoms I have
beaten: brain fog, anxiety, incrdible panic attacks,
etc. you would consider it a success story too! I
don't know if I am going to be able practice law
again, but I can assure you that my whole perspective
of things has changed for the better having lived
through this ordeal. I also realize how much I lost
while I was numbed by klonopin: all these life events
occured, my kids were growing up and **** happened,
but I basically did not experience highs or lows, and
I was sucked dry of creativity or passion. Not that
this realization made my recovery any easier: while I
am stronger and wiser and more courageous than ever,
there were many days over the last 23 months when I
did not think I could make it, but I did--I am a
survivor; I am a warrior!

My heart goes out to all of you who are suffering, and
I can only hope that my story gives hope to someone
out there who can find some similarities in our
stories, who are in the depths of despair from
withdrawal, are lonely, are in pain, and are looking
for a way out! I swear that I was in all of your
shoes and now I can be a witness to what the oldtimers
say: only time will heal the wounds caused by benzos
and that we all can recover. I pray that each of you
who are in need have the strength and courage to
survive. It is far from easy, as I had the family
support and resources to help me make it through, and
I have such incredible sympathy for those who in the
throes of withdrawals without the help I had, but the
doctors and therapists and drugs that are available
mean very little in this battle. Just bear in mind
that you will recover, hopefully much sooner than I!
I never thought I would be writing a success story,
and it is ongoing! But I am full of hope and
optimism, which 6 months ago were not even within my
furthest reaches. Hopefully my story will give some
hope and optimism to others!

Take care and my thoughts are with all of you!
Richard B*****

[Buzz Kilowatt]

Wow, Richard, what a terrific story!

Thanks for sharing. Good stuff.

Buzz

[KickedMethadone]

You know, you can discuss this issue until your blue in the face. Everybody's reaction to any drug whether good or bad is different. I agree that a lot of information you get from the internet COULD be wrong or misinformative. A lot of the advice you get from so called professionals COULD be wrong too. When I was coming off methadone, no one had the correct info except other people that have come off that devistating drug. Even the so called pro's; it seems that they give out this pop psych advice like it's candy on halloween! When in actual fact, it's just base-line information that they get from a book. Everyone is different and so everyone will respond differently. I do know one thing is for sure, ANYTHING AND EVERYTHING USED IN EXCESS OR TO EXTREMES IS ALWAYS BAD.

[woops]

Hey Richard
Thanks for that story............................. it does seem like benzo withdrawal is utterly awful - and requires a long slow taper if its to succeed.
Frightening but ultimately hopeful story.......
woops

[RUNVS]

Paul’s Success Story

Dear Group,
Most of you don't know me......I joined the group back around Sept.
2001. I'm posting this success story as my way of giving back to the
group. I owe much of my recovery to Geraldine Burns who started this
group, Yvonne Day who talked to me every week on the phone for over 1
1/2 years, Hillary Noppinger who befriended me early on and others
who helped me intermittently like Eva Sapi, Sheila from NH, Tom in
Wisconsin, Kim in St. Louis and numerous others.

I can't exhaust the litany of symptoms and ALL the horror I went
thru, it would take volumes, but I'll relate what I can as best as I
can. I can tell you what eventually worked for me and how I
succeeded. It took me 3 1/2 years to get to where I am today, but if
you read on, you'll see that I was one of the worst. The first year
was all survival and that was it, and I will tell you that at some
point you have to take control and do some things to make yourself
better, but if you were as bad as I was, there was not much I could
do except what you have all heard before.......TIME.....it will heal
you......

I was on Klonopin, just 1 mg for 12 years after some situational
panic attacks. I moved around a lot in those days so the doctors just
kept me on the stuff.......you know the routine.......I was a
successful Investment Broker, natural bodybuilder, mountain biked,
roller bladed and many other things, I had a pretty full life, and
then it started to come crashing down.

Somewhere around the 8th year though I'm sure it started to effect me
before that, I started to get sick more often, handled stress not as
well, ran out of energy more often and didn't seem to have the
postive outlook on life like I once had......since this crap is so
insideous, it took several more years for the **** to hit the fan...

Let me tell you right now so as not to concern those that have
struggled, or those who symptoms are troublesome but they can still
kind of function, and anyone knowing Geraldine, Yvonne or Hilliary
can attest to, I was in the top 5% of the worst cases you will ever
see. I don't say that lightly cause I know we all think we are the
worst......But I really really was........so here is how it went for
me, and then I'll tell you what I did to finally get well......pull
up a chair....

When I came off in Sept of 2001 and since I didn't know of this site,
I went to a detox center instead of tapering......WRONG THING TO DO
my friends, especially if like us, you are susceptible to protracted
WD but of course, you would never know it until you got off. Suffice
it to say that as hard as tapering is, cold turkey is the epitome of
hell on earth.......hundreds of times more painful than the tapering
process....

The first two months off were terrible but then like many, in the
third month, hell opened up and invited me in.....I had over 75
symptoms and though I never did get the dp/dr like many, believe me,
I had almost all the rest....for me, the head pressure was horrific,
first exploding outwards for the first year, then crushing my brain
like an orange the 2nd and part of the 3rd year....I did not sleep at
night for onver two years.....I could not open my mail for a year,
cook for myself, answer the phone, hell I couldn't even change the
clocks during the change time....I was debilitated beyond belief.

I was in bed 90% of the time for the first year, my central nervous
system blown to hell.....even looking at tv or the computer was too
much to bear, felt like my head would explode, my brain actaully
vibrated and I was helpless.......my folks saved my life and took
care of me.......they had too and I thought of suicide every day for
at least 4 months until I could actually leave my bedroom and go into
the front room.....all hope of even a small existence was gone and I
thought would never ever return.......

Sorry I can't relate more of the misery, but just know that I
suffered more than the majority.......my good friends Geraldine,
Yvonne and Hilliary will tell you.....

Around 6 months off I first spoke with Geraldine and Yvonne. They
both said I should go see a naturopath.....I have a background in
health and supplements but never heard of candida......well, you may
or may not believe in it but whatever I had, it was just like it. I
went on a special diet mostly like an Atkins diet cause any sugar
even natural would destroy me, and any wheat products the same
thing...I stay on this type of diet for at least a year and maybe
relaxed a little after 1 1/2 years off Klonopin.

At 10 months off I finally could walk around the block.....but only 3
days a week cause it would take me two days to recover from just
walking a mile.....this is the part where I decided to try and take
charge a bit.......but for those of you who say, "I just can't do it",
I understand totally.....but you have to try at some point.....if you
can't.....try again in a week....if I walked to the mailbox in the
first 10 months, that is all I could do for the day....and most of
the time I didn't cause I couldn't handle the stress....I could only
walk at night cause daytime would hurt sooooo much.....

I walked further and further but still only 3 days a week until about
18 months off....remember, I was a weight trainer and jock, but I
couldn't mangage more than this. I was still bad but improving a
little.....I finally went back to the gym at 18 months but let me
tell you...before all this at 6'1", I was 200 lbs of muscle and 12%
body fat.....now I was 230, lost all my muscle and was probably 35%
bodyfat.....I started to lift and resistence exercise seemed to help
more but it killed me later cause my brain and body were so revved
up, pressurized etc that my ears would ring all night, not that I
slept anyway, and would be in agony most of that time...

anyway, I did this routine for another year, I still couldn't handle
any stress......any........maybe going to the store but that was
it...but I persevered......and let me tell you......TIME still is the
major healing force, but my exercise, while painful, exhausting was
helping me strengthen my nervous system and adrenal glands....but
very slowly.....

OK.....that is just a small part of the hell I went thru...again,
there is much much more but I know it is just too much to
write....but HERE IS THE GOOD NEWS........I am 95% and going back to
work now after 3 1/2 years....I weight train with more weight than
before and in fact have gained back all my muscle, lost most of the
fat. I can handle most stress now actually better than before and I
am calmer now than ever in my whole life....

I was transformed into a better me.....when you hear people say that
you will forget most of your symptoms they are right.....when you
hear them say, "it was worth it"......I know you don't believe it
now, but it was.....the keys for me were keeping my diet simple,
progressively exercising more but you have to go slow on that, and
when you start to see some daylight and feel almost healed, it was
best for me to get back into my meditation, and read books like "Mind
Power" by John Kehoe, Total Self Confidence by Dr. Robert Anthony.

What worked for me may work for you.......most of you will heal long
before I did and thank God you will....most will never see the
extreme nature of protracted hell like I did....bless your fortune
and as bad as it is now.........it will heal itself provided you
assist it along the way....when you can.....never reinstate after you
have been off for a few months....or even years, it will reverse any
progress......

But YOU GUYS and GALS will heal......it will go away.....and it will
get better and better......it even know is getting better and better
and even when I feel, well, maybe I"m done healing.......it continues
to heal.......hell, know I lift weights 4 times a week, do interval
cardio twice a week and long distance cardio twice a week....two
years ago.......no way.........and now I"m going to work.....my
adrenals were the last to heal and are still healing....my energy is
still not back to par but at 48 yrs old, I'm exercise more than most
my age and most even 10 years younger...

I'm living proof that you do heal from this torture, you really do,
and I know some just can't or don't believe it.....don't worry about
it, I didn't either.......but it happened if you just take any
measures you can WHEN you can.....either way though, you will return
to your self and in some ways be even better, cause after going thru
this torment, nothing bothers me much anymore......how could it,
nothing including war, divorce, other illness, etc could ever be as
bad as what I had to endure.........

So my friends.......there is light at the end of the tunnel, there is
salvation from benzo WD.....the healed ones have told you and know
I'm telling you......one of the worst has no blossomed into someone
even better.......if you can't smile now......you will......faith is
hard but you must dig down deep and know that what I tell you is
true...I have never posted much on this site cause I as too sick..

But I found my mentors and did what they said.......I forever will
love Geraldine and Yvonne for their care, nurture and guidance, their
knowledge and empathy......they saved my life....literally.....and I
still talk with them to this day......but about good stuff, not
bad....thanks to Hilliary who helped me thru the worst 4 months and
though she is still mending......she gave me hope early on....and all
the others that took time to lead me down the path of healing...

........and to all of you that are still symptomatic and hurting or
even being tormented, your day will come....I promise......the sun
will shine upon you, the Lord (or your God) will lift you up from the
despair and misery......I know I have said alot, but you have heard
it from others before........and one day perhaps soon, you will be
writing your own success story.......COUNT ON IT........

God Bless you all.....you are all in my prayers each and every
day....and know that good things will happen....

Paul.....

ps........if you want to look at my posts I think I went under the
handle of whiteknight_32........it was from sept 2001 for about 1
1/2 ...I didn't post much......but you can see the pain is what I
did.....your day is coming.......thank God.........

[woops]

My goodness, Run, is this for real?
Do you know the person who wrote the above article? Is he legitimate?
That is such a horrific account of someone - it would seem - who was on ativan for only 13 weeks? And presumably this was the cause of his downfall - the withdrawal syndrome when he stopped?
I can hardly believe it. Could there not have been other causes for what happened to him?
Sorry - Run - too many questions. If this is a genuine story and the symptoms all caused by ativan withdrawal - then people need to hear this kind of account, shocking though it certainly is.
Well - I wondered if my doctors were a bit off-hand when they told me that they refuse to prescribe benzos for any condition - I was requesting help with sleeplessness during my c/t - maybe they were just well informed? I am very glad that I was refused!!
How are you doing yourself, Run? You sound pretty good in all that you post now..................... I hope your recovery just keeps on and on..............
woops

[RUNVS]

Yes these are Real Stories I know the people in these stories. Remeber this is only a few examples of what can happen they're are many people that have little or no problems with benzos.

But I think its important for people to understand there can be down falls to benzo use. The Makers of Benzos like Roche state that benzos are for short term only no longer then 4 weeks is recomended.

Also, I share these story to give people hope that want off benzos.


I am personally 9 months off benzos and still healing I do not feel that good but am getting better. But keep in mind I abused alcohol before benzos and this might be a reason for my slow recovery. I am almost a year off alcohol now.


Thank you so much for asking about me. How are you doing now?

[woops]

I am feeling abfab! Just about 2 weeks now off opiates - best feeling in the world! Just wish I had got to grips with this problem ages ago.
It's interesting to read your posts on benzos - so many people seem to use them and seem to think its OK - just as and when. Looks like Roche have done the usual - unleashed the pills on the guinea pigs (us!!) and get feedback on their product! Am I cynical or just cynical?

[RUNVS]

Congrad on 2 weeks I am so proud of you!!! Keep up the great work we can do this.

[RUNVS]

Benzodiazepine Recovery Tips

1. Recovery from being an accidental addict to benzodiazpines is serious
business. It takes
time for the central nervous system to heal and for neurotransmitters to stop
being
sensitive. None of us had the faintest idea that this kind of situation lay in
front of us. So
we are dealing with shock at what has happened as well as the real physical and
mental/
emotional symptoms of withdrawal.

2. Recovery is not linear, as it is with other illnesses or injuries. If we cut
our hands, we
can actually see the cut heal and the pain diminish over time. In benzo
withdrawal we can
be well one day and very sick the next. This is normal and we have to look at
our healing
differently.

3. Recovery is an individual thing, and it is difficult to predict how quickly
symptoms will
stop for good. People expect to be completely better after a certain period of
time, and
often get discouraged and depressed when they feel this time has passed and they
are not
completely better. Most patient support programs tell clients to anticipate 6
months to a
year for recovery after a taper has ended. But some people feel better a few
months after
they stop taking benzos; for others it takes more than a year to feel completely
better. Try
not to be obsessed with how long it will take, because every day you stay off
benzos, your
body is healing at its own rate. If you do not follow this particular schedule,
it does not
mean there is something wrong or you are not healing. Even if you are feeling
ill in some
respects, other symptoms may disappear. Even people in difficult tapers see
improvements
in symptoms very early on. So don't let these time-frames scare you. The way you
feel at
one month will not be how you will be feeling at three months or at six months.

4. It is very typical to have setbacks at different points of time (these times
can vary).
These setbacks can be so intense that people feel their healing hasn't happened
at all;
they feel they have been taken right back to beginning. Setbacks, if they occur,
are a
normal part of recovery.

5. When people are in recovery, they have a lot of fears. One is that they will
never get
better. Another is that their symptoms are really what they are like - perhaps
what they
have always been like. Both of these fears are stimulated by benzo withdrawal.
In other
words they are the thought components of benzo withdrawal, just as insomnia is a
physical component.

6. There is no way around benzo withdrawal and recovery - you have to go through
it.
People try all sorts of measures to try to make the pain stop, but nothing can
shortcut the
process. Our body and brain have their own agenda for healing, and it will take
place if
you simply accept it.

7. When you are having a bad spell, healing is still going on. People typically
find that after
a bad spell, symptoms improve and often go away forever. Try to remember this
when
times are hard.

8. There is no magic cure to recovery, but you can help yourself by comforting
and
reassuring yourself as much as possible. Read reassuring information, stay away
from
stress, ask your partner, family and others for reassurance, and go back to the
things you
did at the beginning if you are experiencing really tough symptoms.

9. When we start to feel better, it is very typical to try to do too much. We
are grateful to
be alive and we have energy for the first time in weeks or months. But this can
be a
dangerous time. When we do to much and take on too much too early, it
re-sensitizes the
nervous system. It doesn't prevent healing in the long term, but it can make us
feel
discouraged. So try to pace yourself, even if you are feeling good.

10. You do need to respect your body during recovery, although you don't need to
make
drastic changes to your lifestyle. Exercise, in any form is critical - even if
you can only
walk around the house or to the end of the block. Eating well and avoiding all
stimulants is
crucial. Regular high-protein snacks can help with the shakes and the feelings
of
weakness we have during withdrawal and recovery.

11. Recovery is all about acceptance, but this does not mean passive acceptance.
Set small
goals for yourself that are achievable. Try to keep exercise happening. Work at
your
recovery even if that means accepting you are sick - for now. You wouldn't be
hard on
yourself if you were in a traffic accident and had injuries; you would work at
rehab. Try to
take the same attitude and approach to benzodiazepine withdrawal.

Source
psychmedaware.org

[windysan]

I've read lots of those benzo horror stories about people taking mild doses of xanax then living in hell for 10 years. I also know people who abused the hell out of benzos (massive amounts over years) who kicked the stuff and were fine within a few days.

[RUNVS]

Dear *****,
>
> Thank you for your e-mail. I can very well
> understand what you have been going through and I am
> afraid you have suffered some very misguided
> treatments.
>
> First, 4mg Klonopin is a very large dose,
> equivalent to 80mg of diazepam (Valium) which is
> excessive. Second, benzodiazepines are not indicated
> for long-term treatment - 2-4 weeks (not years) is the
> recommended duration of use. Third, benzodiazepines
> do not cure anxiety; they merely cover up the symptoms
> temporarily - the initial anxiety is still there when
> you come off and is exacerbated by the withdrawal
> symptoms. Fourth, IV amino acids are not a proper
> treatment for withdrawal - most of them, including
> GABA, do not enter the brain (which is where
> benzodiazepines act) because they cannot pass the
> blood-brain barrier. Only lipid soluble drugs, like
> benzodiazepines,, not intravenous drugs, do that.
> Shortage of amino acids is not the problem with benzos
> anyway- changes are in the GABA receptors, not
> concentrations. Fifth, phenobarbitol treatment is not
> an efficient way for withdrawing from Klonopin,
> especially if the Klonopin is stopped rapidly. So it
> is not at all surprising that you suffered a severe
> withdrawal reaction. Sixth, antidepressant withdrawal
> (from nortiptyline) also causes a withdrawal reaction
> which would add to benzodiazepine withdrawal.
>
> >
> In my opinion, it was right, in your case, to
> reinstate the Klonopin - as shown by the fact that you
> felt a little better on 3.5mg, but you are unlikely to
> stabilise on this or any other dose and it is not
> surprising that you still have depression, a
> withdrawal symptom, after all you have been through.
> You probably have a form of post-traumatic stress
> disorder (PTSD) after your traumatic experiences, and
> you are probably still experiencing Klonopin
> withdrawal symptoms even on the reinstated dose.
>
> But, all is not lost. You will not end up in "some
> mental home all drugged up". You still have the
> capacity to recover.
>
> You do need to get off the Klonopin since long-term
> use usually leads to greater anxiety and depression.
> Since you contacted benzo.org.uk, you presumably have
> access to my "Manual". Please read that carefully as
> you will find in there a full explanation of what is
> happening to you. Also, the "Manual" contains several
> detailed benzodiazepine withdrawal schedules. Schedule
> 6 in Chapter 2 gives a withdrawal schedule from 3mg
> Klonopin with diazepam substitution. This has been
> successful for many people and is probably the way
> forward for you. The reasons for diazepam
> substitution are described in the Manual (Chapter 1,
> pp. 17-20). Please read this.
>
> When you have digested this and if you still need a
> personal schedule for withdrawal from3.5mg Klonopin,
> please contact me again and I may be able to advise.
> You will, of course, have to discuss this with your
> doctor to see if he is willing to prescribe diazepam.
> In my experience Klonopin is especially hard to
> withdraw from directly, but it may also help to
> contact Dr. Larina Reyes-Smith who runs a withdrawal
> clinic in Vancouver and takes people directly off
> Klonopin - her e-mail address is reyessmith@...
> Meanwhile, stay on your present dose of Klonopin.
>
> In addition, bearing in mind what you have already
> been through, and in the absence of any information
> you have given me about your original anxiety and
> panic, you will probably need some psychological
> support (see the Manual again). You will have to
> address how to control anxiety/panic/depression
> without drugs and may need a good clinical
> psychologist (not psychiatrist) for this who knows
> about techniques such as anxiety management,
> problem-based therapy, cognitive behavioural therapy,
> PTSD etc. Your doctor may be able to refer you for
> this.
>
> I really sympathise with all youhave been through
> and can assure you that I have seen many others who
> have been through similar experiences but have come
> out successfully at the other end of the tunnel. So
> do not despair - Also, I can assure you that sleep
> will come back.
>
> Yours sincerely,
> C.H. Ashton

[Barto]

Hi Whoops, RUN, Windy, and All.

I believe Paul was on Klonopin for 12 years. It is RUN that was on Ativan for 13 weeks.

Re: Me. I have to say that I am NOT well yet! Things are manageable if I eat right and don’t get too stressed out. However, many things stress me out easily, and I am not even working yet, which may be a blessing because I don’t know if I could handle it yet.

I really never thought it would happen to me, but I am now thinking that I have some protracted w/d symptoms. Argh! I may be a protracted person after all! Although, thank God I am not as bad as the persons whose stories RUN has posted. However, I am only (only?) just over ten weeks out. Only ten weeks! I should be 100% by now!!! Wow!

Here is what is going on. I still have the tinnitus (high-pitched ringing, hissing in the ears). Some days are better than others, and, overall, it appears to be diminishing. However, I have stopped resistance training because it aggravates it. Also, I have cut out nearly all caffeine and simple carbs, too; I sleep with constant sound on (a small stereo beside my bed that plays a thunderstorm soundtrack, a rainforest soundtrack, or an ocean waves soundtrack all night); I do only gentle stretching exercises (no hard work outs); and I must force myself to get out of the house.

I might ad that I have seen 4 doctors due to the tinnitus – two GP’s, and two ENT’s. I also had an audiogram done, and I am happy to say that I have no significant hearing loss. I will be seeing a therapist, and possibly a Dr. of Osteopathy. It appears that tinnitus can be caused by many things, but some of the most common symptoms people suffering from tinnitus have are stress, anxiety, and depression. Ironically, a leading treatment for tinnitus is Xanax!

Also, my head is still very thick, kind of clogged up. My thinking is very, very slow! I am a professional, and I do not believe that can function at a responsible professional level yet. This may be caused to the tinnitus, although a friend that has tinnitus does not have clouded thinking at all. This is also a symptom of depression.

I just can’t believe it! I really can’t believe it. The jury is still out on what is the cause of this. This is why I haven’t posted back in so long (I didn't know what to say). But I felt it was time to check in, despite that I don’t know what is going on.

Thanks for the posts RUN. I am going to go over the last two more carefully to see if I can use any of the information therein.

[Barto]

The info you're posting is great, RUN. Have you heard anyone deal with (and recover from) tinnitus in their w/d? Just looking to get more info on this w/d symptom so I may better deal with it. Thanks.

[woops]

Hi Barto
Great to see you posting.............. I have no personal experience here - other than a relative who is well and truly "hooked" on ativan - has been on it now for over 30 years!!! I dont have much hope of her ever facing up to the problem and dealing with withdrawal - she is very elderly and I dont think she could take it.
But - I am hoping she will change doctors - and I think a new GP would question her intake of ativan - perhaps something can be done - even at this late stage? I have heard of long painful withdrawals from people here - people who have signed up to class action in the Courts - but that wont help them .......
I am so sorry to hear your symptoms persist as they do - but you have come so far now - things surely must start to improve for you? Dont think protracted.......... every day must be better?
Wishing you the best
woops

[RUNVS]

Originally Posted by Barto

The info you're posting is great, RUN. Have you heard anyone deal with (and recover from) tinnitus in their w/d? Just looking to get more info on this w/d symptom so I may better deal with it. Thanks.

Tinnitus is very common in Benzo withdrawal. What I have notice that it will slowly go away in time. Many people I have talk to had tinnitus at high levels.

It's loudest when you first get it and then starts to slowly die off - can take up to a couple of years then just disappear. But the first 3 months is very bad. So hang in there. Then got a bit better each month - is gone now after 9 months off for me.

Tinnitus is one of the more common symptoms of benzo withdrawal.

Many people also have told me it reduce or complety dimished after a year off (somtimes sooner somtimes longer). But for all cases it has reduced and/or disapear.



From the Ashton Manual:


TABLE 3. SOME PROTRACTED BENZODIAZEPINE WITHDRAWAL SYMPTOMS

Symptoms - Usual course

Anxiety - Gradually diminishing over a year

Depression - May last a few months; responds to antidepressant drugs

Insomnia - Gradually diminishing over 6-12 months

Sensory symptoms - Gradually receding but may last at least a year and occasionally several years: tinnitus, tingling, numbness, deep or burning pain in limbs, feeling of inner trembling or vibration, strange skin sensations

Motor symptoms - Gradually receding but may last at least a year and occasionally several years: muscle pain, weakness, painful cramps, tremor, jerks, spasms, shaking attacks

Poor memory and cognition - Gradually improving but may persist for a year or more

Gastrointestinal symptoms - Gradually improving but may last a year and occasionally several years

From the Ashton Manual:

[Barto]

Thanks Woops, RUN. I'll keep checking back.

[windysan]

Glad you are doing better, Barto. You'll get better. Just give it some time. Try not to talk yourself into being a "protracted person". The mind can play dirty tricks.

[Barto]

Originally Posted by windysan

Glad you are doing better, Barto. You'll get better. Just give it some time. Try not to talk yourself into being a "protracted person". The mind can play dirty tricks.

Thanks Windy. Believe me, I am being very careful not to mind-f@#& myself. The tinnitus is very real, though. Still it is only eleven weeks now, so we’ll see.