XANAX, ATIVAN, KLONOPIN, VALIUM, great info here

[Peter]

I tend to agree geoflite.

The copy/pasting is kinda monotonous. Most people know how to use a search engine.

Why not share some more of your own ESH with us instead.

[Jane63]

Ditto, ditto and double ditto!
I've never seen this much hostility in the over a year and a half I've been a member here!
I come in to read or maybe post some ESH and am so disheartened by the BS that I end up leaving.
We've had some heated debates here now and then but none like I've seen in the last week or so. It just makes me sad cause there's so many people out there that need help.

I hate seeing this happen to the special site I found that helped me so much.

[Done_With_It]

Originally Posted by Jane63

Ditto, ditto and double ditto!
I've never seen this much hostility in the over a year and a half I've been a member here!
I come in to read or maybe post some ESH and am so disheartened by the BS that I end up leaving.
We've had some heated debates here now and then but none like I've seen in the last week or so. It just makes me sad cause there's so many people out there that need help.

I hate seeing this happen to the special site I found that helped me so much.

Yea, the hostility is too much, I agree Jane (& everyone else). I think things will be getting back to the normal, upbeat and healthy environment that we are used to here, very soon.

[Alera]

Personally, I have not seen any 'porno' posted by windysan. I'm sure if windy posted porn they'd be banned by now.

Please don't make this a personal issue. Many of us find recovery in treating our medical issues, and sometimes that includes the use of benzos.

[na4today]

I think everyone is talking crap about the benzos. If you're for them great and if not that's fine too. Take the medical info or leave it. Take the personal info or leave it.

Geofite, do you have personal experience with the benzo withdrawal??? If so share that. If someone is interested the the medical research on it, there have been plenty of links posted for it. Let it go, you not going to get anybody to stop using it if they don't want to.

Personally, I've been there, done that. Won't do it again. Ashton's manual is very accurate. It's been almost 6 months and I am still having withdrawals. It is an absolute hell. What I am going through, I wouldn't wish on anyone. But maybe it doesn't do that to everyone, I don't know. All I know is what it has done to me. Take what you want and leave the rest.

So can't we all just get along??!!

[woops]

Hi Kathy
Thanks for what you say above - couldn't agree more. The anger is counter productive. Certainly doesnt help with getting/sharing information.........
Kathy - I am trying to get as much info as I can - have an elderly aunt who has been taking 1 - 2 mg ativan for years for sleep - and cant get off.
I've downloaded and copied Ashton - very very informative and helpful.
The doc also suggests same - cross over to valium and then slow taper.
BUT - I would really appreciate the advice of someone who has actually done this taper.............. how to go about it, how to structure the taper, what to expect..................especially in this situation of an elderly person.
If you have any advice to offer - I would be very grateful.
There have been many heated exchanges on the subject of benzos - but very little hard practical advice. Obviously these drugs must cause some people some awful distress - going by how they feel.
I understand from your post that you are still in withdrawal - 6 months after the end of the taper?? Do you feel up to sharing how you feel?
Was considering joining the "private forum" at benzo org - but was put off by its "secrecy" etc - maybe I should ...? Also - I have been scared witless by some of the stories at that site.
I hope things improve for you Kathy - surely 6 months on things must start to get better.
Take care
woops

[windysan]

I agree that the arguing should end. I'll post no more here. People need help here and arguing about which approach is best is counterproductive. I wish all peace and serenity.

[Done_With_It]

I hope you mean that you just aren't posting on this thread?? Don't leave SR if that's what you mean, ;-) I enjoy having you here. :-)

[woops]

Hey Windy
I have really appreciated all your help and input - especially as you have been thro the mill yourself with these awful benzos...............dont go? There dont seem to be so many people who have suffered from these pills who actually speak up.........and there seem to be so many who are misinformed?
I guess that temperatures go up on this topic - because of all the suffering which has gone on................ even more reason for you to speak up and help those of us who are just learning??
Enjoy your humour - always give me a chuckle!!
woops

[windysan]

I'm not going anywhere. I just refuse to continue to argue over the internet. Arguing on the internet is kinda like the Special Olympics....even if you win, you're still retarded.

Serenity and Happiness to All

[Jane63]

Ugg. Sorry to bring this post back up again but wanted to reply....

I still get kind of bent out of shape sometimes over silly stuff I see or read which is something I am still working on but just needed to take a breather and I'm fine now!
It was not your posts/replies "windysan" that upset me and I am so glad you aren't leaving or anything cause I like your sense of humor and ESH alot!!

Arguing on the internet is kinda like the Special Olympics....even if you win, you're still retarded.

LMAO!!! Ya' got that right!!

{{HUGS}}
Jane

[RUNVS]

Benzos are no fun! At least for me they are not!

[windysan]

just like chris farley there...keep on running with it.

[RUNVS]

To understand the efficacy of the benzodiazepine drugs as tranquillisers and sleeping pills it is necessary to know how these drugs work on the brain. And to understand benzodiazepine addiction and withdrawal, it is necessary to understand the body's compensatory reaction to that action.

Throughout the brain and spinal cord there are GABA receptors, which both inhibit neural activity and, indirectly, alter the production of neurotransmitters, such as noradrenaline, serotonin, dopamine and acetylcholine. The benzodiazepines act on these receptors to increase their inhibitory activity and reduce the flow of some of these neurotransmitters and so induce, among other things, calm, sleep, lack of emotion, and relaxed muscles; and they begin to act in minutes.

After about two weeks of the continuous presence of these chemicals, the brain begins to compensate for this increased inhibition by reducing the intrinsic inhibitory action of the GABA receptors, and increasing the production of some neurotransmitters, thereby producing the state of neuroadaption known as tolerance; and this state of tolerance takes, at least, one year and often two or three, in the absence of the drug, to reverse back to normality.

So what does tolerance mean for everyday behaviour and experience? It means that the only way the person involved can limit their excitability and alertness - their readiness for "flight or fight", the fundamental survival mechanism, is by taking the drug. Between doses, as the level of the chemical in the brain decreases, they have only their weakened GABA receptors to modify their experience, and at the same time, an increased flow of noradrenaline etc. This is an intolerable state to be in, and the only solution is to take more of the drug, because the person's natural ability to modify neural activity has been weakened and there is nothing else which will do that job. That is the basis of the chemical addiction to a benzodiazepine.

Under these circumstances the benzodiazepine addicts know they cannot manage without the drug, and they are right. They are as right as diabetics who know they cannot manage without insulin. However, benzodiazepine addicts do not know why. They usually assume, with the support of most professionals involved, that this is a weakness of character, if not full-blown mental illness. This is the nature of psychological dependence.

At the same time it seems that there is no compensatory reaction in the areas mediating emotion, memory or sensory experience; they remain anaesthetised as long the drug is present, and for some time after it is stopped. It is also necessary to understand that after the drug is stopped the initial detoxification period takes between six to eight weeks compared to five to ten days for heroin or alcohol, and neurophysiological recovery takes years.

Recovery is interspersed with periods of intense withdrawal symptoms. This is not fully understood but is probably connected with the fat-soluble nature of the drug, its long-term storage in the body's fat cells and its cyclical release into the blood stream over many years.

Victims of Tranquillisers Newsletter (1995) Issue 1, VOT, Dr R F Peart, 9 Vale Lodge, Vale Road, Bournemouth BH1 3SY

[windysan]

Yep. Barto is doing well as per his update. Glad he made it through. How you been, Run?

[Barto]

Originally Posted by windysan

Yep. Barto is doing well as per his update. Glad he made it through.

Thanks Windy,

Glad to know someone is thinking of me. Yes. I am doing much, much better. However, I am not 100%. Of course, even when I am 100 %, I’m not 100%. And the massage went pretty well, too. Coffee is going in the trash in a minute here. I am convinced that it is really, really bad while withdrawing from benzos.

Hi Run,

This is very interesting information. It is kind of frightening, but also kind of encouraging. It is frightening because based on this it appears I may have symptoms for years. It is encouraging because it appears I will feel even better in six to eight weeks. Is there a website I can go to, to read more?

[windysan]

Try not to look to far into the future and try not to expect bad things to happen. Just "go with the flow" as they say. The mind can do weird things. Occupy your time with healthy things. Help others if you are able.

[Barto]

That is exactly what I intend to do. I will be getting back to meetings, and doing all that goes with them (except drinking coffee I hope). Still, it's hard not to think about the way these drugs work. They are extremely weird. Then again, so are other drugs. It has been a long time, but I do remember it was quite a while before I was somewhat right.

I’d like to help people with these specific drugs, but I’m not quite sure how to go about it. There is a lot of controversy in “the program� as to whether or not my taking them constitutes a “slip.� So, if I share about this in meetings, it may open up a can of worms and put me in the middle of a big controversy.

Are most people that post here in a program of recovery?

[windysan]

I believe that most here are in some sort of program. Many here are in NA. I drop in a NA or AA meeting from time to time. I don't agree with all the NA/AA stuff but I do go to meetings sometimes. Benzos are weird and it does take some time to get back to "normal"...whatever that means. I do think that benzos are helpful with people having serious panic problems(resulting from things like meth abuse) and for detoxing the alcoholics. The benzosphere on the internet can get quite strange though and it is probably best that you just deal with people face-to-face for now. You are doing quite well and you should be proud of yourself for kicking that crap.

[woops]

Hey Barto
Benzos is not my problem - but a lot of people swear by the benzo.org.uk site - I think that is the address - anyway if you google it you will find it. I have read the front page and there is an absolute ton of information there - seems like good solid scientific stuff - Ashton and all that. There is a "private" chat room - and I dont really understand the private bit?
But - loads of helpful links etc ..........
I downloaded and printed out the Ashton Manual - doesnt take too long at all - I have an elderly rellie on lorazepam who wants to be off - it is great - very informative and gives detailed taper plans. Lots of information too on how life is after benzos - lingering withdrawal symptoms and how to deal with them......
Just a thought...........
woops

[Barto]

It’s a great thought. Thank you. I found that site on about day eight of withdrawal. It has a mind-boggling amount of information on it. A lot of it was pretty hard to read at that time. So, I have been back since. What I found seems to focus on the slow withdrawal, which I believe is probably the easiest and safest way to withdraw. However, since I didn’t know about the slow withdrawal until about day eight, I chose not to do the slow taper, which would have meant reinstating. It just didn’t seem to make sense after having gone through eight days of hell.

Now, I am more certain it was the right choice for me. I still feel weird transient symptoms, but I am way, way better these days (even drinking coffee or tea). I just get freaked out when I hear about these horrible protracted withdrawal symptoms. There is always the question when I feel a symptom “is it withdrawal, or the underlying anxiety returning.�

I guess it doesn’t matter, though. If it is withdrawal, it will pass. If it is anxiety, I have to find another way to deal with it. For me, that may mean getting back to meetings (AA mainly). I had real problem stopping drinking (and other recreational substances) several years ago. Meetings helped me stay completely off for several years. I got away from meetings, and, eventually, it appears life’s anxieties got hold of me (not that I wasn’t anxious when I was going to meetings; I was), and I didn’t have a plan to deal with them. Like Windy, I don’t agree with all the AA / NA stuff you hear at meetings, but I am going to try to go back to see if I can utilize what works, and stay out of the BS (of which there is a lot).

This is probably more information than a proper response to your post requires, but since I was going to post about my progress anyway, I guess I’m just sharing it here.

BTW, I spent some time in Broken Arrow and Bartlesville. Are you near them?

[woops]

Hey Barto
Sounds like you are doing just fine. Yep - I can see why you did the fast thing and so had no need of Ashton's schedules (which I hope my rellie will entertain) but her manual holds so much sheer downright common sense stuff................ I am reading her just now about benzodiazepine withdrawal symptoms, acute and protracted.......... - and she seems to cover everything (page 35 onwards)............I would recommend that anyone interested in benzos should download and print this monograph. Just about every weird symptom from insomnia to tinnitus to GI tract problems (people even believing they have IBS) to headaches to rage................... its a most interesting read and she deals with each individual symptom, their causes and how to deal with them. She recommends everything from CBT to acupuncture to aromatherapy to homeopathy to yoga and meditation, exercise .......... its almost like a sort of "almanac" for sick people!! LOL And she is just so downright "sensible"! But she leaves you with the message that benzos are very potent - incredibly powerful and addictive, and for the most part not understood by the medical profession at large - particularly in the US. Her conclusions are supported by her own observations and trials.
So Barto - good luck - you are clearly doing just the right things............. and I hope your recovery is complete - and never worry - Ashton seems to think that almost everyone can/will make complete recovery from these drugs. You will - for sure. Just give it time.
Nasty things - aint they? Benzos? Wonder if they can really ever be justified? Originally developed for anaesthesia.......... I cant help but wonder if that is just where they should remain............

[Alera]

Originally Posted by woops

Hey Barto

Nasty things - aint they? Benzos? Wonder if they can really ever be justified? Originally developed for anaesthesia.......... I cant help but wonder if that is just where they should remain............

I think they can. I have suffered from extreme anxiety and agoraphobia for many years. Before I took the benzos, I would stay in my house all the time. Now I go out, walk to the store for exercise, go to college etc. It was this anxiety I was self medicating with my DOC.

Granted, I only take them at night before I go to bed, but it still keeps me calm the next day. I take about 1.5 - 2.0 mgs of Xanax at night. About twice a month I take .125 during the day.

My attitude about benzos and NA is don't ask/don't tell. If someone asks me, I will tell them the truth, but I do not volunteer the info.

[Barto]

Originally Posted by woops

... Nasty things - aint they? ...

For me, they are very weird and very nasty.


Thanks for the encouraging words! BTW, the Broken Arrow / Bartlesville question was meant for NA Kathy.

[RUNVS]

PROTRACTED BENZODIAZEPINE WITHDRAWAL SYMPTOMS
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
A number of people are expressing fears that some benzodiazepine withdrawal symptoms last for ever, and that they can never completely recover. Particular concerns have been raised about impairment of cognitive functions (such as memory and reasoning) and other lingering problems such as muscle pains and gastrointestinal disturbances.



People with such worries can be reassured. All the evidence shows that a steady decline in symptoms almost invariably continues after withdrawal, though it can take a long time - even several years in some cases. Most people experience a definite improvement over time so that symptoms gradually decrease to levels nowhere near as intense as in the early days of withdrawal, and eventually almost entirely disappear. All the studies show steady, if slow, improvement in cognitive ability and physical symptoms. Although most studies have not extended beyond a year after withdrawal, the results suggest that improvement continues beyond this time. There is absolutely no evidence that benzodiazepines cause permanent damage to the brain, nervous system or body.


People bothered by long-term symptoms can do a lot to help themselves. For example:

(1) Exercise your body. Physical exercise improves the circulation and function of both brain and body. Find an exercise that you enjoy: start at low level, work up gradually and keep it up regularly. Exercise also helps depression, decrease fatigue and increases general fitness.

(2) Exercise your brain. Use your brain to devise methods to improve its efficacy: make lists, do crossword puzzles, find out what bothers you most - there is always a way round it. Cognitive retraining helps people to find ways around their temporary impairment.

(3) Increase your interests. Finding an outside interest which you have to work at employs the brain, increases motivation, diverts attention away from your own symptoms and may even help others.

(4) Calm your emotions. Above all, stop worrying. Worry, fear and anxiety increase all withdrawal symptoms. Many of these symptoms are actually due to anxiety and not signs of brain or nervous system damage. People who fear withdrawal have much more intense symptoms than those who just take it as it comes and think positively and confidently about recovery.
(copied from Ashton's Manual)