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| | #226 (permalink) |
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When I was first prescribed xanax I needed them. I needed them very much and they helped me survive and function. It is the long term effect of being prescribed them for years that turned them into a very bad thing for me. They no longer treated the condition they were prescribed for, developed a tolerance, have a short half life and take on a life of their own, taking them not to get high but just to stay out of withdrawal. And I am only beginning to learn how they have effected me and impaired me because it has taken me 3 weeks of a valium detox to even be able to concentrate to read. I have printed out the Ashton manual and will read it when I am able to. Now, I have had my nose in a book since I was 4. Who would have ever guessed I would become so sick I couldn't read?! And if I can't concentrate and read, I have to be on medical leave. Last week was rough...but that was due to multiple factors. I don't miss the xanax a bit. I can only thank Runvs over and over for putting the information out there. I had no idea what was wrong with me, just that something was terribly wrong and I was supposedly being treated by a specialist for it all and wasn't supposed to be getting sicker and less functional. You are kind of lucky emmer, none of my drs wanted to take me off of it. I have been de-toxing for over a month now. I never would have dreamed that I wouldn't bounce back much sooner and that I would be out of work so long!
__________________ Each small candle lights a corner of the dark....Roger Waters |
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| | #227 (permalink) |
| Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Southern California
Posts: 120
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Day 331 off Ativan Still struggling with post benzo recovery. I am dealing with muscle weakness and inner vibrations. Altough my mind is alot clearer now. This sure does take a long time. ... Following an abrupt withdrawal, the symptoms will often last between six months and two years of gradually diminishing mixed psychological and somatic symptoms (Ashton). ... I am still in the normal range of recovery |
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| | #229 (permalink) |
| Guest |
Here in my town,most doctors know of the dangerous long term use of benzos. I fired the doctor that put me on and kept me on klonopin far past the point of addiction......When I asked for help getting off the stuff he said no...you'll just come back blubbering for more. What A stupid thing to say! The drug stopped working and like millions of others I was only taking it to ward off acute withdrawals. It served no other purpose. Tolerance is built up quickly with benzos and they do nothing except cause big problems with addiction. The next doctor I went to was blown away at the amount I was on and couldn't see a purpose for remaining on them. I started withdrawing from them shortly afterwards. It took me 1 1/2 years to taper off them. It was pure hell, especially the first 60 days or so. I'm not going to pass judgement on anybody that's on benzos.....that being said - Be very careful..benzos are highly addictive and there will come a point where they will stop working (the only way around that, is to increase the amount taken daily)( But to what end ?). Also be warned, the withdrawal is something you don't want. Peace be with you friends. |
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| | #230 (permalink) |
| Member |
Yeah, similar story. One Dr shook his head no when I asked if I would ever be able to get off xanax. Shrink wanted to put me in hospital and detox me using xanax. I have to be really honest here.....Technically, I was addicted...but that is the chemical nature of the drug. I was just, after so much time, medicating the withdrawals. My detox has gone almost too smoothly, and we are being very aggressive with it and at least half the time I don't even take my full dose of taper med (valium). Mostly around the boards, I am not "clean" if I am on taper meds. So I quit with the counting days thing. I can look up the day I made a commitment to myself and that is the one that counts with me. So I am having some trouble reconciling my understanding of addiction with many of others here. I know what I am addicted to and that is cigarettes. My best gf and peer at work stopped this evening and had 2 bloody marys to unwind and laugh and then went home. To much of SR, this means I am not clean. To me, I drank a cup of coffee this morning...that jeopardizes my sobriety to me. Not those 2 bloody marys. Are those short happy hours a problem to me, not now, but many would say it is destined to become one. However, I know my history. If it is causing a problem,...then I don't want problems. My work is demanding, the workload went up exponentially today....we are drilling 6 new sites, means I will have to do 100 yr absolutely thorough abstract...and I am all ready so behind on my spreadsheets and mapping. I would hire someone to do my data entry, but because it requires specialized knowledge, I wouldn't trust any one else to do it. Hubby can help with mapping. So the news is : my project just gained alot of longevity, which all in our business wish for and is going to be 10 times the work. That's going to be tough. I come home just mentally brain dead everyday as it is. They would like me to work 6 days a week. It's physical too....ever seen one of those rooms in a courthouse with the walls lined with big heavy books, those are indexes to the next set of books lining the wall from ceiling to floor. I pull those and stand at a countertop and usually run 3 or 4 files at a time, to be more efficient so I don't have to wait on copies for one before I can proceed. I don't sit at a desk, I don't take my computer in,...it is handy but if I start setting up full office everyday in the conference room and breaking it down, that is three trips in and three trips out just to carry everything. And the whole time I am walking between all these different offices in the courthouse. I talk more about my work here because I know that Levi can picture it. Levi, this isn't my first job in the business and I LOVE the company I work for, but alot of things they do are definitely not standard and unconventional from the bigger dogs I worked for before. I do not understand some of the decisions regarding document. Geez, I have been trained since 89 to document. Before in the bigger company I was a document specialist. Bigger compnaies pay more too. I know you are dealing with that. But I am happier with my smaller, humanistic, good client to work for and the most excellent peers. And it's experience is better on my resume. I need to learn to think in terms of paid education! And still have all my contacts/allies to touch base with or ask a question. Is this off topic? To me, it is life, so that's all topic. thanks to each and every one of you and thanks RUNVS for asking. I will forever be grateful to you and this thread. I guess the teacher is there when the pupil is ready. ![]() live
__________________ Each small candle lights a corner of the dark....Roger Waters |
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| | #231 (permalink) |
| Guest |
Yes I can certianly understand. Accidental or not, unfortunately an addict is someone who is addicted to something (chemically) where, if the substance was taken away abruptly there would be withdrawal. esp-nasty. I did the valium tapering thing at about 4mg of klonopin. I started @ 13mg per day. 13mg klonopin= 260mg valium. I found the valium withdrawal to be much easier than klonopin, Klonopin is like xanax potency wise. |
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| | #232 (permalink) | |
| Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Southern California
Posts: 120
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| | #233 (permalink) |
| Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Southern California
Posts: 120
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A visual animation on how benzos work with gaba receptors http://www.sciencemuseum.org.uk/exhi...-0-0-0-0-0.swf sciencemuseum.org.uk |
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| | #234 (permalink) |
| Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: middle earth
Posts: 1,040
| Visuals.......
Loved that presentation! I would like to have seen it extended to include a visual representation of the cell cutting down its production of gaba in response the the "overload" by benzo ................. and ultimately the benzo being withdrawn and the lack of stimulation now as a result of reduction of production of gaba............... Neat! Thanks RUNVS |
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| | #237 (permalink) |
| Trying to do the right thing. Join Date: May 2006 Location: London
Posts: 4,354
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Its good to see this thread swing round. I always get sooo much from it...! Kool visuals Runvs, yer it would have been good to see more on just how they work, along with gaba.Intresting.
__________________ Weve come along way and were Changing day by day ![]() We DO Recover. We can Recover...! |
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| | #244 (permalink) |
| Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: middle earth
Posts: 1,040
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Hey RUNVS - there is someone who could do with your advice - "hydrocodone addiction" is the thread............... someone coming off opiates and valium at the same time and suffering............... Always good to hear from you! |
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| | #247 (permalink) |
| Member |
lots of bad words. that is all and well okay I have alot of them to say! My primary shrink denies the xanax to vailium equivalancy and really chewed me out for trying to dump them when I have a severe anxiety disorder. I negotiated down, telling her about memory problems etc. BITCH. Insists I need them, stay hooked and then takes 5 days to call in meds! I hate this ****! I am hostage to licensed drug dealers! Kick my butt for flushing over 100 of them! I want off. If for no other reason than the damned withdrawals! I am so tired of being jerked around. That more than anything. It is scary enough being diagnosed as mentally ill in one and more ways. And knowing, damned it all, that those assessments are true! jkesljgfok;sahgfk;ashgk';hjgkfl'oaj'
__________________ Each small candle lights a corner of the dark....Roger Waters |
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| | #248 (permalink) |
| Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Southern California
Posts: 120
| http://www.benzo.org.uk/bzequiv.htm These equivalents do not agree with those used by some authors. They are firmly based on clinical experience during switch-over to diazepam at start of withdrawal programs but may vary between individuals. WHAT ARE THE DOSE EQUIVALENCIES AMONGST VARIOUS BENZODIAZEPINES? There are no clearly definitive equivalencies for various benzodiazepines. This author has personally seen at least a dozen different benzodiazepine equivalency charts and no two are alike. The table below has been chosen because it reflects the clinical experience of Professor Ashton in having helped over 300 people to withdraw from benzodiazepines by use of a Valium substitution method (see below). Alprazolam 0.5 Bromazepam 6 Chlordiazepoxide 25 Clonazepam 0.5 Clorazepate 15 Diazepam 10 Estazolam 1-2 Flunitrazepam 1 Flurazepam 15 Halazepam 20 Ketazolam 15-30 Lorazepam 1 Lormetazepam 1-2 Nitrazepam 10 Oxazepam 20 Prazepam 10-20 Quazepam 20 Temazepam 20 Triazolam 0.5 Thus, 1mg of alprazolam (Xanax) or clonazepam (Klonopin) is the equivalent of 20mg of Valium; 1mg of lorazepam (Ativan) is the equivalent of 10mg of Valium. These dose equivalencies are important for a number of reasons, the most significant of which is the issue of switching to a different benzodiazepine such as Valium prior to tapering (see below). These figures are taken from Professor Ashton's Manual and several other sources. See for example the Benzo Equivalence Table on this site. You may find a doctor who will want to switch you from Xanax to Valium at a 1mg to 10mg equivalency. This is a recipe for a very difficult cross-over. Whatever the precise therapeutic dose equivalencies, the above equivalencies should be observed in switching from one benzodiazepine to another for purposes of withdrawal There is no obvious reason why about 10% of the people have problems with diazepam tapering, but it is sometimes due to one or more of the following: 1) Incorrect equivalent dose – the values quoted by Ashton, et. al. are those found to be effective in benzodiazepine withdrawal and should in principle compensate for any difference in binding of the benzodiazepines to either the same or different benzodiazepine receptors. There values are not necessarily the same as therapeutically effective doses, but sometimes are. 2) Poorly planned or too short a period for the exchange from another benzodiazepine to diazepam. Mild daytime sedation at the end of a 2-3 weeks exchange suggests the equivalent dose is correct. 3) Failure to maximize accumulation of diazepam used and its metabolites – it takes about four weeks to achieve 90% accumulation, i.e. four weeks after exchange. 4) Tapering too fast. Each person should find the rate suitable to themselves. A good starting guide is 2 ½ % of the initial dose/week. The rate for the last 1/3 of the taper should be reduced to ½ of that for the first 2/3. Professor C Heather Ashton DM, FRCP, 2002. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Valium (Diazepam) vs. Klonopin (Clonazepam) in Benzodiazepine Withdrawal by Dr. Reg Peart Victims of Tranquilizers |
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| | #249 (permalink) | |
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| | #250 (permalink) | |
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