Pot Smoking and psychosis?

[lonlion]

STUDY LINKS POT SMOKING, PSYCHOSIS


Heavy pot smoking has been linked to psychosis in one of the largest-ever investigations of the long-term health effects of cannabis use.
Daily marijuana users are 1.6 to 1.8 times more likely to develop psychosis compared to non-users, a group of New Zealand scientists reported after following the health and development of 1,200 men and women born in 1977 for 25 years.
The findings published in the March edition of the journal Addiction, make it increasingly difficult for pot advocates to dismiss a growing body of evidence linking regular cannabis use with increased risks of psychosis, is an outcome mental health experts have long suspected.
This makes it more definitive”, says Harold Kalant, a professor of pharmacology at the University of Toronto. “Most people accept that the link has been established beyond anyone’s ability to dismiss it.”
The New Zealand study also debunks the myth that individuals prone to psychosis, who may have suffered physical or sexual abuse as children, would probably attempt to medicate themselves with marijuana.
Instead, the researchers conclude the psychosis in pot smokers is most likely caused by their daily cannabis use – and not by other factors.
“The association between cannabis use and psychotic symptoms is unlikely to be due to confounding factors,” wrote researchers David M. Fersusson and L. John Horwood, “The direction of causality is from cannabis use to psychotic symptoms.”
According to Dr. Kalant, mental health experts have long probed the question of whether psychosis among pot smokers was caused by marijuana, or if pot smoking was a form of self-medication among psychotics.
Cases of psychosis which can be attributed to pot smoking tend to show more “active” symptoms of mental illness, such as delusion and paranoia, compared to more “passive” symptoms which may have existed before the marijuana use, such as withdrawal from social interaction, Dr. Kalant says.
Researchers do not know what it is about marijuana that could cause psychosis but hypothesize the constant stimulation of the neurotransmitter dopamine through drug use may have something to do with it.
“The weight of the evidence clearly suggests that the use of cannabis may alter underlying brain chemistry and precipitate the onset of psychosis…in vulnerable individuals,” according to the New Zealand scientists.
Study participants reported their marijuana use at age 16, 18, 21 and 25 years. They were also asked to respond to questions about their mental health, such as whether they heard voices others do not hear, felt someone else controlled their thoughts or was aware of their private thoughts, felt something was seriously wrong with their body, never felt close to another person, felt others cannot be trusted and felt they were being watched by others.
According to Dr. Kalant, psychosis is basically defined as not being able to distinguish between reality and fantasy.
“It tends to go with other symptoms like a lot of internal mental activity of an imaginary nature, paranoid thinking, reverting inward and, sometimes, aggressive behaviour.”
Dr. Kalant says other research is increasingly showing a link between pot smoking and respiratory and bronchial problems. One recent study, for example, found two thirds of regular pot smokers reported chronic inflammatory problems in their chest.
He says researchers also suspect pot smoking is linked to cancer, just like tobacco.
“Chemically, tobacco smoking and cannabis smoking are very similar,” he said “When people smoke cannabis, with deep breathing and holding it in the lungs for a long time, they deposit a higher portion of tar in the lungs than cigarette smoking.”
There is a logical reason to anticipate cannabis smoking may be causing serious problems the way tobacco smoke does.”
And Dr. Kalant says that just because research has not yet demonstrated a link between pot use and cancer does not mean it does not exist, considering it took decades of research to establish the negative health effects of tobacco smoking.

[51anna]

That's interesting Diana.

I have a 22 year old nephew who has been smoking marijuana heavily for years and he is very paranoid and very aggressive. I have believed for a long time that it was due to the amount marijuana he's been smoking.

Anna

[tyler]

Interesting stuff. I've been a heavy pot smoker for 16 years. So that's why I'm CRAZY!!!!

[urkaburka]

Originally Posted by 51anna

That's interesting Diana.

I have a 22 year old nephew who has been smoking marijuana heavily for years and he is very paranoid and very aggressive. I have believed for a long time that it was due to the amount marijuana he's been smoking.

Anna

If I were you have would have been looking for white powder or any kind of tablets. These are very typical symp. of amphetamine and/or rohypnolabuse. But also guys in late teens earliest twenites have lots of hormones and buffup and I believe some can't controll it, in my late teens my parents accused me of doing steroids because I was agressive and grew alot. This was really offensive to, to many hormones went really. agressive and eventually I was kicked out but this was in 19-20ish alot happens to y 22, but this can also vary I assume?

If his pupils. urk the black part of the middle of the eye gets really dialeted and big in the dark its a clear sign of cocaine, or amphetamine,mdma or exctasy abuse. if they get small its signs of pills like rohypnol or opiate abuse. If they don't change but he is read where his eyes are supposed to be allwhite, particulary to the ends of the eyes its a sign of pot or hasj "abuse" but he can fool you here buy using a chemical called cleareyes on his eyes(which completely removes this effect).

If he have red spots or vains in his eyes that are symps. of amphetamine overdoses. We didnt have "meth" when I did drugs up here, so I don't know so much of that drug.

oh reading that Ihope I don't scare you and run into false and to fast conclusions, just a few tips.
Also excuse my spelling a bit of a trianwreck here atm

AND BTW: The worst thing you will ever do is make your sister or brother kick him out. for me that really was the one thing that started my game, even though I was younger that him. but BAD move

[bvaljalo]

I don't 'buy' what this article says for one friggin SECOND. It seriously is written by and for people with no intact analytical thought processes.

There's nothing in there about what methodology the researchers used to determine 'causality', whilst admitting that determining this has always been the problem in the past with similar studies. I'm just supposed to believe that THESE researchers, they got magically around this issue ... BECAUSE this article says they did? HOW did they do this?

Not to mention the fact that psychosis is by DEFINITION a 'mental state'. If there is some known, ACTUAL mental DISEASE like schizophrenia associated with pot smoking, why aren't they talking about THAT?

Pot smoking causes 'psychosis'? Yeah, no sh*t. All drugs cause some kind of psychosis, that's why we friggin TAKE 'em.

From the Wiki:
Psychosis is a generic psychiatric term for a mental state often described as involving a "loss of contact with reality." People suffering from it are said to be psychotic.

This is just more bulls**t anti-pot propaganda from the big money right-wing/pharmaceutical/alcohol lobby if you ask me.

[PeachyClean]

Daily marijuana users are 1.6 to 1.8 times more likely to develop psychosis compared to non-users

what "psychosis"??

This is just more bulls**t anti-pot propaganda from the big money right-wing/pharmaceutical/alcohol lobby if you ask me.

I agree with bvaljalo.

[bvaljalo]

What I'd love to see is a COMPARSION study of the mental and health effects of 25 years of chronic use of Cannabis vs. ANY OTHER drug that gets you high. How'z about they compare them to the effects from this list:

1) Vicodin/Percocet/Heroin
2) Alcohol
3) Valium/Klonipin
4) Ritalin/Adderall
5) Cocaine
6) Crack Cocaine
7) Crystal Meth
8) LSD/Mushrooms
9) Ecstasy
10) Ketamine, roofies, GHB, etc.

I would bet ANY amount of money that the average overall detrimental health effects of ANY of these drugs/drug classes would be somewhere between WORSE and WAY WORSE ... than those of pot smoking. In fact, with a majority of them, you'd be hard pressed to find an actual LIVING group of people to study the effects FROM.

These guys just never give up with their tired-@$$ 'reefer madness' spiel, do they?

This is coming from someone who actually LIKES to hear that 'drugs are bad', since I can't take them anymore. But unfortunately I can't set aside glaring logical inconsistencies in my quest to receive this message

[Abundance]

A nurse that was looking after my dad in the hospital... she said that while in nursing school...... that excessive smot poking was the cause of schizophrenia ... not the end all.... and no I don't know statistics...

My sister is / was *no sure now actually.......... but she was a heavy pot smoker for 20 plus years..... but she was also an opiate abuser. Nearly 2 years ago, she had a nervous break down and got off the methadone .... in about a week or 2... not at all what is needed for methadone detox.... and is now psychotic and living on the streets.... she is choosing to be homeless. I can't talk with her for more than 5 minutes without her starting to talk absolute nonsense. For example, for the last 6 months she turns every conversation (in the first 3 minutes) to me being truthful about how my son is not from my egg! That I am not his biological mother. And then that the government put a chip inside her and are watching every move she makes. She called my mom and told her it was her fault that the weather was funny.

It's all so very sad.

[navysteve]

This thread sounds like some are pro pot smoking. I thought this was a substance abuse thread, shouldn't we be discussing substance abuse?

[exjunky]

Originally Posted by navysteve

This thread sounds like some are pro pot smoking. I thought this was a substance abuse thread, shouldn't we be discussing substance abuse?

Sure, but we don't have to lie about it. LSD doesn't cause chromosome damage and Ecstasy doesn't drain your spinal fluid. That still doesn't mean it's smart to take them.

I tend to agree with BV's opinion on this one but really I wouldn't pass judgement unless I got knee-deep into studying the report. It's possible that they have a specialized definition of "psychosis" (beyond what Wikipedia offers!) and it's also possible that they eliminated some of the causality problems from previous studies. Or then again maybe it was all funded by the makers of Zoloft.

[windysan]

i don't like how pot makes me feel. makes me feel more stupider.

[kj3880]

Originally Posted by navysteve

This thread sounds like some are pro pot smoking. I thought this was a substance abuse thread, shouldn't we be discussing substance abuse?

I agree, Steve. I thought that the purpose of SoberRecovery is that we are supposed to advocate recovery from every type of drug abuse, including marijuana. Not to point out how some pot is not as harmful in some people's opinions as a pharmaceutical drug would be. This should be a good place for a post like the one above that points out some of the negative aspects of marijuana useage.

I don't like to see people minimalize the damage that can be done by marijuana (not that they have necessarily done so here, but I want to caution against it going that way on this thread). I've known some kids who totally get into smoking pot all the time, to the exclusion of almost all their healthy activities. Not to mention that it is a proven carcinogen, as bad or worse than a cigarette for your lungs.

In addition, it is expensive and illegal. It is often the beginning of addict behavioral patterns like lying and financial irresponsibility that ruin lives and families for lots of people. I've known people who've been fired from my job for positive urine screens for THC. Also many kids limit their future job selection by getting into smoking pot. It's harder to get on at police departments, fire departments, the military (esp. intel fiields.) and many other government and some private sector secure jobs. If you've smoked pot heavily or smoked it habitually, it's impossible to get these types of jobs unless you lie and don't get caught in your lie. My thing is, at a young age, you don't know what you're going to want to do later in life, so why limit yourself in this way?

I'm not saying let's make up stuff to scare them away, but certainly it's good to have the information up here to inform and warn away potential abusers. People tend to set pot aside, see it through rose-colored glasses, maybe because it grows out of the ground, but you can also say the poppy grows out of the ground, and we all know what damage that plant has done many of us! And cocaine is from the coca plant???!!!.

Just some thoughts. I hate to see kids messing with pot all the time, especially as it is often tampered with more harmful substances laced in it in my area.
kj

[exjunky]

Originally Posted by kj3880

I'm not saying let's make up stuff to scare them away, but certainly it's good to have the information up here to inform and warn away potential abusers.

It's certainly an appropriate post and lonlion had only the best intentions, but that doesn't necessarily make the report true. It doesn't make you a marijuana proponent if you question the scientific validity of the report. On the other hand, if the report is true, it's probably the most damning evidence against marijuana use to ever be discovered.

Potheads love films like Reefer Madness because they point at the propaganda which is so utterly false. It gives them a false sense of security. If we've been told one lie, and another lie, and another, then maybe everything we've been taught about it is a lie, or so their thinking goes. I honestly believe that in the long run, false anti-marijuana propaganda gets more people smoking pot than not smoking it.

[windysan]

i've always found pot to be fairly safe and boring when compared to booze and dope. i don't like it cuz it makes me paranoid. i never could understand why it wasn't legal. as far as it being a "gateway drug"....baloney.....oxygen is a gateway drug.

[bvaljalo]

You guys would never guess I'm one them damn hippies from out there in California, now would you

[windysan]

Bvaljalo - is you stinky? Like, patchouli stinky?

[chiynita]

I am far from pro pot smoking. I just do not agree with htis articles in the least.
I was a heavy user for many years.
Never got paranoid. Never went coo coo for cocoa puffs.
Actually. I did good in school and in keeping a job at those times of my life.
Now I am not condoning the use of weed.
Because it did make my ass lazy alot. And eat crazy amounts of food.
Plus the shyt sticks.
But psychosis was far from what I experienced. In almost 20 years of use never went crazy hearing things.
Not until I moved onto cocaine did all those symptoms occur.
I think it is BS.

[bvaljalo]

Same here Chiy. Except it was speed not coke for me.

And no windy, I really ain't a proper hippie. I'm more like CK One stinky.

[windysan]

Originally Posted by bvaljalo

Same here Chiy. Except it was speed not coke for me.

And no windy, I really ain't a proper hippie. I'm more like CK One stinky.

Oh, a trustifarian?

[kj3880]

But many of us did smoke pot before the other drugs...so we are saying it wasn't a gateway...but we certainly aren't the best examples to be saying that, hehe. I don't know, I never got into smoking anything, bad bronchial probs kept me away and I'm glad. But I do think that if you forbid your children to smoke pot, make it a big deal, maybe that would be enough of a "no-no, naughty" to make them feel cool and dangerous when they go out and try it, maybe they wouldn't have to move onto coke and heroin for a defiant independance move. But if we tell them, yeah pot, no biggie, you can do it, then they might really try a more dangerous drug to do the rebellion thing. Just how it works with my weird teenagers in my exper. with raising them.

I really worry about pharmaceuticals and kids too. Esp. oxy, my DOC. If an exper. addict with a built-up 80 mg. tolerance uses it, then they can chew an 80 up no prob. But if a kid hears that someone got high on that 80, try it for the first time, chewing that dose, they could die. And it's hard to counteract at the hospital once in the bloodstream. Maybe more dangerous than heroin, because it "looks harmless enough, nice little green pills." Where heroin is like, ewww, melting and needles, and tying off and all that gear...just a thought.
kj

[bvaljalo]

Probably seems like I contradict people all the time around here, and for that let me apologize profusely ... BUT ...

On a technical note, whilst I agree with most every thing you've said, I would point out that most kids try alcohol before they try pot. So what is REALLY the 'gateway' drug?

Secondly, I echo your concern about things like oxy's and kids ... 80's are pretty damn dangerous to the 'opiate-naive' as they say in the medical field. BUT ... opiates are actually amongst the easiest (if not THE easiest) class of drug to remedy an overdose for.

Put it this way, you ever seen Pulp Fiction? Whilst the methodology and the drug they use in that movie are both medically incorrect, the scenario is not far from reality. Once you get to the hospital (or the ambulance arrives), presuming you're still alive at that point, they give you a shot of naloxone and within about 30 seconds you're wide awake and screaming bloody murder (if you're an addict, anyway). At that point, the danger is effectively over. They know very well these days how to save you from an opiate overdose, believe me. Again, provided they get the chance.

As an aside, the hardest drug(s) to effectively counteract an overdose of are hallucinogens. All they can really do is try to sedate you and strap you down. But fortunately, those won't kill you.

[stone]

I was interested to notice that the British Government recently re-made cannabis a class 2 drug a few years after relaxing it to class 3, they did this after the commission they set up advised them to leave it as class 3.

Cannabis seems to be a political football, most things I have read refer to this new strain called 'skunk' and it's relationship to 'psychosis'.

I agree with Bill Hicks, if any drug should be legal it should be cannabis, compared to alcohol (and others) it is relatively harmless.