miamifella

I went to a 12-step meeting as I sometimes do when I feel like I might be headed toward relapse and the subject was sex and addiction. I passed when it was my turn, but listened to person after person talk about how connected sex and drug use was for them.

And it is for me. But in a way different than for any of them.

Listening I realized that for me part of the attraction of getting high in sexual situations is that a high partner is not going to be critical of me. This lead me to think about how my husband was always critical of me during sex or at best tried to direct what I did in bed.

And then I realized that may be what pulls me back to 12-step meetings even though the program has been ineffective for me. I think I like that groups are critical--and the bonus is that if I go enough, it will make me feel so bad that I can rebel by relapsing! Just like with my husband! The thing that makes it not work for me is the very thing I want. It is like some sick permission to relapse, like my relationship with my ex-husband was.

I don't know yet what I do with this....but I feel like I learned a lot by sitting in a room with my mouth shut listening.

What I do next....?

Joe Nerv

My opinion on that is that it's a somewhat twisted connection you're making. I can find ways to relate anything I want to something I don't like or want to do, and consider it an "ah ha" moment. I also don't see AA in the same light as you do. They've never been very critical with me. Quite the opposite in fact. They've been very accepting.

And while unrelated, I'm confused about your gender. The fella part had me alyaws assuming you were male. Are you a woman, or are you in a same sex marriage. Just curious.

miamifella

I am male. So was my husband.

I agree that the connection is twisted...and I need to back away from it seriously.

I went to my first meeting 15 years ago and was active in the program for over seven years. I really am trying to understand why I stayed with something that made me feel such shame and hopelessness for so long...and why I would go back repeatedly for "visits".

Here in Florida there is a tradition of "the meeting after the meeting" where you get feedback/criticism. It may be because there are so many rehabs here and it is not unlike group therapy where people offer feedback.

And there is sponsorship which frequently involves someone overseeing your life decisions.

I think what really would work best for me is a support group. After hearing that 12-step programs are not support groups, I have to admit to feeling they were too soft. But now I wonder if that is the approach I need.

I mean, here I am sharing this on SR. I would rather be talking to someone face-to-face (or even on the phone). Addiction is actually easy to explain to non-addicts. But the 12-step experience is a lot harder for them to grasp.

greens

I understand what you mean Miami fella

Soberpotamus

Sounds like a good idea. Have you looked into any support groups yet?

It seems your posts often focus negatively on 12 Step groups and the time you spent there. So why not go a new route and find what works best for you?

Joe Nerv

Shame can't be felt, if there isn't any shame there. It sounds to me like you had (have) a lot of shame that needed healing, and you were hoping AA would do the trick.

My memory is a bit shot when it comes to remembering what people say on this forum, but I seem to remember you frequently fighting AA and taking issue with it, as opposed to embracing it. Apologies if I'm off on that. Anyhow, with 7 years experience I'm sure you already know that AA does truly work excellently for some. The ones it does work "miracles" for are the ones that make the 12 steps a part of their life, and start living them. And I mean really walking them, which is very different than just talking wisely about them at meetings. People who work the steps the most diligently, IME, are often the quieter ones who feel no need to advertise.

Anyhow, if you believe a support group is what you need by all means seek one out. I'd however be cautious with that. Again, IME, support groups can often give instant gratification, while doing little to help someone really grow. Pats on the back, and identifying with others is great, and can help someone get through the day feeling a little less alone - but as a longterm solution, well... I'll just say that I'm not a big fan. I went to some coda meetings (when they were just forming) for about 2 years. The groups I was going to were nothing more than support groups. I watched people get sicker and crazier, going around doing nothing more than supporting each others problems, and sickness. Not saying all coda groups are like that. I sure hope they're not.

Anyhow, I've been on this kick lately with the realization that nothing ever got any better for me unless I sat with some things that made me really uncomfortable. AA. The steps. Therapy. Sitting through my ugly, painful feelings. I went to a bunch of John Bradshaw meetings (whatever happened to that guy?) that helped me deal with some serious shame issues I had. Basically, I took a lot of action, and didn't run from the things I didn't like or that felt uncomfortable. I gave them everything I had in fact.

It's sad to me to see people struggle for so long with this sobriety thing. If someone has the strength to keep the drink down for as long as you have and keep it down while not feeling so great, I believe that person also has the strength to walk through the things necessary to precipitate healing. And that healing can start at any given time. There are issues I've had that I didn't start really getting into until my 20th year sober.

As long as I keep an open mind and willingness, my world keeps get brighter and brighter. And I don't think I'm a terribly unique person. If it can be that way for me, I'm certain it can for you, or anyone else, too.

miamifella

I have looked for other groups in my area, thinking there would be a lot. There is no LifeRing here and there is a SmartRecovery group but during the time I work.

I do not think I ever fought AA--but I do think that sponsorship is often abusive--no one gets sober because they clean out their sponsor's garage and I do not trust any recent drunk or junkie to oversee the career and financial decisions of their sponsee. Also, I think so much negative feedback from the group is counterproductive. But many long-time AA supporters on SR agree with me.

My main argument is the idea that we are all powerless to help each other with our addictions. I think a lot of the worst excesses of sponsors comes from a genuine desire to help...and if they cannot help with the addiction itself they are going to nose into every other aspect of life.

I was very enthusiastic for my first few years in 12-step recovery, because I kept thinking that I was the problem. I did feel shame for my lack of sexual experience, my lack of a broad experience with drugs, and not understanding cars and life outside of a big city. Later I felt shame that I had not had the spiritual awakening that seemed to happening all over.

I had not known any addicts until I went into rehab. I did not know what a DUI was. The people in AA were not like any people I had ever known.

I have had a much easier time with sobriety since leaving 12-step recovery. There I relapsed frequently. Since leaving I have not. I think that I struggled to get the first step because I knew other people COULD help me and I could not honestly say that they could not. But since leaving I can speak openly if I ever feel an urge to use.

During those times I do go back to a meeting and listen. I used to think that it was because it had been such an important part of my life for so long. And there is curiousity about how the people I used to hear at meetings are doing.

But I really wonder if I am like the spouse who goes back to the unhealthy relationship because it is familiar. I mean, I can ask my friends and therapist for help---but all I can do in a meeting is listen to stories similar to ones I have heard many times before. And feel bad because I never had the fun they had in addiction and the bliss they have in recovery. What I am getting from it?

Joe Nerv

The meetings and sponsors in your area are very different from my AA experience. I never experienced any of what you mentioned outside the lingo things. I guess you need to pave your own way.

miamifella

From SR, I have learned that AA varies a lot. Everything from taking breaks, to interpretation of the term "cross-talk", to sponsorship styles, etc seems to vary.

Soberpotamus

Since you have come to these realizations, Miamifella, then seems to me that you'd be finally ok with breaking that connection with 12 Step and going on to something more positive and helpful for you.

I can relate a little to some of your conclusions. I had thought maybe my negative experiences were probably because of the area of the country where I am attending meetings. And specifically, I thought that if I could find one of the agnostic meetings, I'd fit right in. Around here, there are none. And I ran up against opposition when I looked into starting one. I could've followed through probably, but chose ultimately not to pick that battle. I decided to work with what was available to me, what immediately helped me, personally, because I was in early recovery. One day, maybe I'll revisit that idea of starting one of the agnostic groups. Until then, I just focus on what actually helps and works for me. And that is a holistic sort of recovery method, using bits and pieces from many programs I've used in the past.

It sounds like you are aware of this twisted sort of draw you have to the group that no longer works for you, so I do wish you the best in moving forward to find a different kind of group support.

miamifella

The thing I really wanted most was someone I could talk about addiction to. Part of the reason I put my city in my name was in the hope that I could find someone to talk to face-to-face. Definitely not the AA way,...

But time has passed and I am not sure if I need a "group" anymore. I am in therapy and my friends are supportive. When I was struggling, I did look for more of a "support group" approach and could not find one that fit with my work schedule. But now the time has passed.

And the time for dropping in at 12-step meetings is passed as well. I got healthier when I left the fellowship. Now I need to cut all ties to it.

miamifella

Here is a crazy postscript: I still feel guilty about wanting help from other people. Today I went to call a friend and hesitated.

My sponsor really pushed that using friends to get through urges was immature and would keep me from being desperate enough to get a higher power. It still feels like this is somehow a lesser form of recovery. (I guess I do not need a meeting to feel shame.)

Joe Nerv

Why do you hang onto things that were told to you, that you know are completely asinine? You're allowing your old sponsor to be your higher power. Don't you see that? You have more power than his suggestions. It's your choice to hang onto things, or let them go. Nobody else's. If I took every effed up thing somebody told me in my life, and spent years focusing on it, I'd be in pretty bad shape. It took willingness, and a lot of practice to get out of my negative mindset and start viewing things differently. I can focus on the garbage in the world, or the gifts. I choose the gifts today. And that didn't come naturally to me. Still doesn't. It required a powerful desire to not want to live and feel the way I was living and feeling.

Have you ever considered a positive thinking book? They work, as does AA or any other program, when we make an honest effort to implement the suggestions into our life and thinking.

miamifella

In my mind, I know that what I was told in 12-step recovery was not right (for me at least)...but when I feel a craving I feel like it is a failure on my part. A friend of mine pointed out recently that when I feel my addiction raise its head, my personality and thought processes all seem to change into a tower of wuss. This weekend I could have used, so this is a little raw. Tomorrow, when there won't be time for drug use, all this weirdness will go away.

Self-help books do not really work for me. I edited a few so I have trouble taking them seriously....everything is so simplified.

But talking things out like here really does help. I am a dialectic kind of guy, so me talking then someone else countering really does bring about change.

Soberpotamus

Have you looked into DBT? It was originally for Borderline Personality Disordered individuals, but it's increasingly being used for anyone in need of help with emotional regulation, and also teaches mindfulness techniques, distress tolerance, etc.

miamifella

I never heard of DBT before. But it seems to be more intensive than needed in my case and aimed at different issues. When I used the word "dialectical" I meant it in the more ordinary sense.

Soberpotamus

I see.

I hope you don't think that asking for friends' help and getting their support is immature. I can understand the sponsor might have been suggesting that you become more self-reliant maybe? Maybe he is suggesting this because you seem to be really susceptible to the suggestions of others.

But getting support from others is a good thing to do, if that is what helps you.

miamifella

What my sponsor said had nothing to do with self-reliance. It was simply the standard AA line.

He said that in asking friends for help I was negating the first step, because it says that "we are powerless," and I was behaving as if they had power over my addiction.

He said that I never found a higher power because I was looking for help from other people rather than god. He said that if I did the first step and gave up on getting help from people, I would be forced to find god.

You hear this kind of thing a lot if you are part of 12-step recovery. For me this was just wrong. I could never tell someone seeking my help that they should either pray or go out and use some more.

And that is why I really need to get away from 12-step programs. Some of what is recommended seems so wrong to me.

Long ago, I decided to do what I needed. Even before I left the program, I had stopped following it.

But it was not till I openly left the program that I stopped relapsing.

Soberpotamus

I've heard that line before, and I do understand their logic. I don't agree with it of course.

But...

The way I reframed that sort of thing is like this: Only I can keep me sober. No one else has that sort of power You can keep you sober. I can keep me sober.

miamifella

The part I miss is being part of the group. I do not know any addicts, so the only time I ever saw others with this problem was in the rooms.

SR is fine, but it is not the same thing as seeing someone's eyes as they speak about their experience. However screwed up they were, whatever b.s. they spoke, they were actual people in front of me.