rockstar30

Liv1ce, you are so right about my self hatred. That is so much of a factor in driving me to use and then hate myself after I did. I have grown up taught by my mom (who isn't in my life) to hate myself and that I was always not up to her standards. This us part of my "perfectionist" and secretive nature. I lie about all and everything even the silliest of things because of fear from retaliation. My mother never took anything I did well. Not even playing with a friend. I would have to hide that. Over the years I developed this hating and secretive nature but I have to let it go now. I have to learn to love myself or I will never stay sober. And you are right, staying sober is such an intimidating task that makes withdrawal a walk in the park. As I've said before I was sober for a year and boom in the blink of an eye all of that came tumbling down! This time I have to take steps to making sure I protect my sobriety and that probably includes being on this site daily and posting on others threads who are new to sobriety once I achieve some time myself (here I am projecting into future), and daily self inventorys. I want to have a workout regimen as well because that kept me sober before. Before my last relapse I was weight lifting daily and boy did I feel good. I was strong confident and charged with energy every day and my aura was visible. I quit working out maybe two months before my relapse and I remember getting weaker and so did my mind. I believe the mind and body are linked and so a strong body is a strong mind. Idk I'm rbling but I def need a workout regimen to keep me sober and help with PAWS.

EyesOfAStranger

Rockstar, you are doing great - truly. Like Liv1ce, just reading your words brings me right back to the wds, I feel like I'm going through it with you. And honestly, it's kind of the reminder I need just now - the memory of that horror. And I'm happy to read that you had some positive interactions with your loved ones. Hopefully that will relieve a bit of your anxiety and allow you to focus on what you need to do right now.

I started taking percoset in my early 20's recreationally. Maybe on the weekend, or one with a couple of drinks. I can actually remember when I could get a high off of half of a 5mg perc! My usage increased, but it was still recreational and I had no pull for them. Then I found myself in a bad relationship. Around the same time I met a girl at work who had a love for the opiates as well. Through her I was introduced to oxycodone (with no Tylenol) and she was also the one that taught me how to snort them. As I mentioned before, very glad she was not in to the needle. I was so miserable in my relationship, and they gave me the false lull of happiness, and that is when it turned to full blown addiction for me. Every day, as much as I could, and I was "happy".

Seven years later I finally got out of the relationship....but it was too late - I was hooked. Due to that relationship and my pill abuse I had to declare bankruptcy. I came clean to my parents about my problem - and that was hard. This is not something that they could fully understand....heck, they don't even drink. But they were very supportive and I thought I could finally break the cycle - though I don't think I was fully ready to. And then it happened - I got sick. Found out I had cancer....and a very painful one (lymphoma). And you know what? As I first met my oncologist and he wrote out the scripts for all the pain meds - in the back of my mind I was smiling. How sick is that??? I have chronic pain issues - two really bad knees, but was given every treatment for them except pain meds. I had legitimate issues, but could never get them from my doctors. As I bought them I always wondered how those folks were able to get them because I couldn't. Granted I never doctor shopped as again I didn't know how, but still it seemed amazing to me.

So fast forward....all my treatments (and by the way I 4 1/2 years in remission now ), and then I just had one problem after another - thyroid surgery, gall bladder. And nothing feeds the addictive brain more than being sick - it gives justification for using, right? But even what I was prescribed was not enough for me....I still kept buying them on top of what they gave me. So it continued for years....and my whole paycheck was going to pay others rent, for their cars, their vacations. I was taking so many that I was constantly running out....one good thing I can say is when I ran out of money that was it. I didn't steal or do anything like that - I just had to deal with wds until my next paycheck. And it was getting really friggin tiring dealing with being sick all the time. And realizing that I wasn't happy, I wasn't getting a high anymore, and it wasn't even helping with my pain the way it was. Over the years I had haphazardly tried to quit, but was never successful. This time I was serious - I found this website and as I read through others stories I could see myself in so many posts. And it gave me the extra motivation I needed.

So I here I sit looking back at all I missed out on. Because the pills lulled me in to a false state of "ok-ness". I knew my life wasn't what I wanted it to be, but the pills have a way of making you ok with it. It's fine....you can deal with stuff later. Well it's later....I didn't go back to school like I thought I would, I did not continue up the chain at work at the speed I original did when I started there. I passed up on friendships and relationships because I got to the point where isolation was all I wanted. Me and my pills - that's all I needed. As I got older I kind of outgrew drinking and smoking weed, and I thought the same thing would happen with the pills but it didn't. I found what I believe I loved and I wasn't going to let it go easily.

I tell you this as I don't want you to be me. I don't want you to lose twenty years, important years, of your life. Reading your posts, even in the misery of withdrawals, I can tell you are an intelligent, kind, caring individual that has the opportunity to do great things with your life. You can get back on track now and leave this as a blip in your past. I'm not going to lie, I'm struggling even five months in, but this is all I've known for so long now. And at this age, it's a little tougher to fix some of the things I missed out on. But I'm working on it. Day to day, that's all we can do.

I have no experience with subs, so can't share any thoughts there, but I will tell you this. I was actually able to taper a bit, then jumped off cold. I waited for the worst - I knew what to expect, I had been through it many times before. The anxiety of waiting for it all to hit was horrible. And in the end, for whatever reason, it was not as bad as I was expecting. Maybe the taper helped, maybe it was in part due to that I was finally ready as I do believe some of withdrawal is mental. All I know is it was ok - so don't stress out about what is to come. Just let it happen and take it as it happens. It may not be as bad as you are thinking it will.

And you asked earlier about keeping a daily journal in this thread. That is absolutely a great thing to do - and when you get further in and read back to this - that will help you, and others, tons. I'm really hoping you stick with this. Stay strong my friend

liv1ce

Your brother obviously loves you and deep inside is supportive but so disappointed. He will not truly believe anything you have to say right now as he has been covered in bullshiit so many times before. It is SOOOO very typical of us addicts to become incredibly remorseful when we get caught. We breeze along as if nothing and no one can stop us until suddenly it hits us right in the face. Then we SUDDENLY realize all the crap we have done and lies we have told and those we have decieved - HOW COULD I HAVE DONE SUCH THINGS. I AM SO SORRY.

On the outside looking in it is just a load of predictable, repetitive crap and is quite meaningless.

We are a manipulative bunch we addicts and when finally caught face to face we twist and turn all those we know to try to repair what we can.

We can say what we say but in the early days it really doesn't mean much as we try to manipulate others and ourselves to believe that we can overcome what we have done.

Go through the withdrawal. Eat the shovel full of shiit. Live through the pain and come out the other side. Then and only then can you truly tell your story and expect to be believed.

mineral

There's your motivation. Nothing anyone can say here will give you motivation to quit if this does not. I don't say that to be blunt or rude, it's just a simple fact.

You sound like a smart guy. I'm sure you've gone through all the eventualities that quitting and staying on the same path will lead you. I doubt you need a lecture on this.

I was kind of in your situation. Everything came to a head and my family found out while I was in school (computer science/applied mathematics double major) . It was the first time any of them knew, and I went to rehab, and I'm about two years clean now and about to graduate after this coming semester. That was my lowest point for me, I knew I had to quit and did not want to use any longer. Are you at this point? Or are you still rationalizing using again? Or thinking you will at some point? Or are you truly thinking, in your deepest thoughts, the last time you will ever use?

I think quitting doesn't become so scary in your mind or so difficult once you've accepted that you HAVE to and NEED to quit. It doesn't become easy, but from what I've seen and experienced, it's not a constant struggle in your mind if you truly want to quit.

So my only advice and the only inspiration I can give is to tell you that you need to make your mind up here. If you have any thoughts trying to rationalizing further use or any thoughts that this will not be FOREVER, sit down and go through those thoughts (maybe with a pen and paper) and let them wash over you and realize why you are thinking like you are, and try to find out what the problems are. Because if there's doubt in your mind here you need to put serious thought into why they're there and put serious effort into trying to fix them. If there are no doubts, I don't think this will be so difficult. If there are, you're likely to turn back to your habit unless you put some good old fashioned hard work into your issues.

I think of quitting drugs a bit like losing weight. People want to lose weight without the work (proper diet and/or exercise), but it doesn't work like that. If you really want this and you put in the effort, good things will happen for you. If you don't have the right mindset and/or don't put in the effort, things will turn out badly. It really is that simple!

Also, as for NA/AA (as you say you don't have any near you), there is online meeting and the literature is also available free online, I doubt I need to tell you how to find it on google or give you links. NA/AA isn't the end all/be all of quitting drugs or alcohol either though. It is a great program and it helps greatly with those who cannot fathom "quitting forever" in their mind. I went for about a year post-quitting and learned a lot in my 30 day rehab stay about the scientific/psychological consequences of this disease and how it all works. That helped me a LOT. So I would say also to read up on these topics if you haven't already. And I have found what recovery/sobriety means to me even without NA/AA, I felt I wasn't getting much out of it any longer so I stopped going. So please don't use that as an excuse not to quit because it's more then entirely possible to be sober without AA/NA, although they are great programs.

rockstar30

K

rockstar30

Guys thank you again for such awesome posts. I really take a lot of strength from your words, all of you! Right now I have no support group besides this site and reading these threads. The stories I relate to and people in situations I am in really help me stay strong and want to be clean. Day 3 is coming to an end now, ive just gotten home from 12 hours of work plus 1 hour in the gym. I did legs today because my legs are so ******* stiff it's driving me nuts! I believe the withdrawals are starting to break through the very minute dose of sub I'm taking and since I have only 2 mg left I'll take 1mgtmrw and maybe .5the next two days and be off sub by the beginning of the weekend. I'm experiencing stomach cramps, muscle stiffness and sore ness, yawning constantly, still sweating, but I can deal with all this. I will stick to exercise which should help replenish my endorphins faster. I want to stay clean more than ever and want to be a success story. Im tired of this cycle and these highs and lows. I just want to be level headed and back to a regular person. I know staying clean will be a major task after this withdrawal but hope I will meet some cool sober folks on here to talk with and draw strength from. OK I have to be at work in 5 hours to open so I need sleep! Advil pm is finally working! Gnite day 3 and I'll post tmrw about day 4. Thank you guys again so much it really helps when you guys point out stuff or telle how it was for you and your suggestions. I find myself checking this thread a lot during times of craving which are very high right now! Oh I forgot to mention but I've had dealers hit me up today but I told them I was in rehab and didn't need any pills anymore and I was done with them. They left me alone and I'm so proud of myself for not caving in. I have money and access and I unfortunately have the dealers number stuck in my head but I have to exert my will and stop!

rockstar30

Sorry I didn't mean to jut say k. I've tried posting the end of day 3 many times but it won't let me I'll update in the mor ing as I have work in 5 hours and need rest. Thank you guys so much for the comments they really o help me a lot and I draw much strength from them that I couldn't on my own without a support group. I consider ypi guys that group. I'll post tmrw about what happened at the end of day 3 and the beginning of day 4. I attempted to post 3 times but kept saying token expired and I can't type all that again right now too tired. Gnite guys!

rockstar30

Well I guess it did post....never mind...

mineral

Keep strong man. I found that doing physical stuff helped me too. I would suggest tapering down as quick as ya can though, cause while it helps you get further down the cliff, you still gotta jump off at some point!

I had horrible problems with restless arms when I quit (like legs, except in the arms :P) and one piece of advice I have, if you end up getting that, is to NOT TAKE anything with diphenhydramine (what's included in Tylenol PM. Sominex, Simply Sleep and other sleep meds) as it just makes it exponentially worse. For me the feeling was like a low voltage current to the nerves in my arms with drove me insane and made me scream into my pillow, it can be less for others though with just having to constantly stretch limbs. It was the worst part of my withdrawals BY FAR. A good sleep med I found was Unisom (Doxylamine), I took like 4x the recommended dose and it knocked me out.

Another crazy thing, and you said you had problems with stomach cramps, is to take an anti-diarrheal (loperamide). It's actually an opiate that binds in your intestines. That's why you're having cramps, because the opiates were essentially slowing down your 'cycle' and now that it's sped up it feels like having severe diarrhea (which can happen too) and causes pain because of the fast moving cycle. Those symptoms should go away though in a few days once you take that jump This loperamide opiate does not cross the blood brain barrier (meaning it won't effect your central nervous system, to get you high) though, and it available over the counter. But I had read online that it actually helped with withdrawals too if you took enough. I took like 40MG (15-20 pills) and it helped immensely for me, no placebo effect, it was actually helpful. Doesn't get you high but it does alleviate some symptoms. I didn't **** for like three days though :P

rockstar30

Hey guys and good morning day 4! Today I woke up in much less sweat and much less drowsy than the days before. Mineral, I do take diphenhydramine and I believe it helps a lot for sleep plus as a gas station owner I have a slew of mesicine available on hand including loperamide, but no doxylamine though. I do have a very solid understanding of pharmaceuticals as I am a biochemist and worked for many companies (I even worked for qualitest pharmaceuticals here in huntsville Alabama which is the largest manufacturer of my DOC oxycodone blue v pills). I do notice that taking pm meds makes me VERY drowsy in the morning and hard to get up so I cut my dose in half last night which helped dramatically. BTW MINERAL, I'm also a double major biology/chemical engineering and have two semesters left to graduate so congrats on you graduating so soon I hope u make the beat of it!

STRANGER, I'm glady story helps u go back and see the torment involved with opiate withdrawal. Although my use was never as long and as continuous as yours, I did use a very large amount of stuff as I've said (300mg minimal per day). I never started with lortabs or Vic's, I actually have never before eaten an opiate pill or snorted one. My first experience with opiates surprisingly was at UAB in Birmingham Alabama. I was a freshman in college, met the wrong crowd and one of them decided it would be cool to try heroin (which is abundant in bham) and that we could use needles. So that's how it began. I was the "doctor" shooting myself up with heroin of high purity and became addicted from the start. Luckily I got off that and let me tell you heroin withdrawal makes oxys look like NOTHING. I am so grateful I never touched heroin again after that two year fiasco and terrible terrible withdrawal from it. After that I moved to Huntsville to "get away" from drugs but as we all know the addiction lives within us and no matter where we go, if we cannot solve the inner problem we will pick up and use again no matter where we are. There is darkness all about us but we have to chose to follow the light and stray from the dark. So anyways Huntsville has no heroin pretty much yet a huge huge supply of oxycodone since one of the largest manufacturers of Roxy's is in Huntsville (qualitest, malinkrot) and I quickly saw how close oxy was to heroin and loved it. Well here I am and I hate it so much. I am glad you never picked up the needle because that is an addiction in its own a very mental asfixiation that makes the user crave intensely! But regardless of how bad I think I am and how much my mind and body craves these drugs I know I am the mind and I must control it. I've tried 12 step as meetings (na meetings made me crave way too much) and I liked them but I could never get the whole letting go and letting god thing. I never got over that idea and couldn't move on as my sponsor said and I stopped going. I feel like this site helps me so much more!

LIV1CE, I like your attitude and the way you portray the whole getting caught and being remorseful is SO SPOT ON! God man how do u know these things? That's exactly how I am I use relentlessly and without second thoughts anSORRYn boom I'm caught and I literally try to squirm out and make any excuse and try to be SO SORRY! But it means nothing to my loved ones who have really heard enough ******** from me the past few years and they ho eslty don't wanna hear anything more. But I am as you say eating the shovel of **** that I cooked up.

Anyways moving on, legs sore from gym but I feel good. I think the gym is the number one most important part of recovery IMO it boosts testosterone and endorphin levels and loosens muscles that are stiff as well as makes you tired enough to sleep and makes you sweat out toxins and gives you appetite. I mean the list of benefits is so long that I'd be crazy not to go. I plan on going again today and doing arms. The soreness actually feels good. I have another 12 hour shift so I'll post later and oh I forgot to mention, I took 1mg sub today and plan to take one more tmrw morning then make the jump Saturday. I'm not scared anymore. I'm confident and I want this and no matter how I feel physically I will get through this! Thank you guys again so much for letting me express myaelf truly through this thread. This is the only place I can where people will actually understand and listen and provide feedback. All other sources just don't get it and don't honestly care or it upsets them more.

rockstar30

OK so day 4 ended last night after going to the gym late at night after a grueling 15 hour work shift (my brother decided to take the day off). Went to gym did biceps and back as much as I could (still feeling weak) and ran a mile on treadmill. Sweating and exercise helps so much in tiring the body out and producing sweat and endorphins. I was so tired when I got home but ate a dinner consisting of tuna and chick peas stew with two hard boiled eggs and 3 slices of bread. I mixed hot crushed pepper into the stew to make it spicy as well. Taking lots of ibuprofen and minimal loperaminde just in case. I think its more just to settle my mind than for actual stomach pain. I have had two very painful stomach situations with cramps and trying to get all the **** out of my bowels which has been there for weeks maybe (nasty I know). Listened to some uplifting music and took a hot shower before bed as well as half dose of Advil pm. Sleep really well for 5 hours and got up.

rockstar30

Good morning to day 5! I took my last bit of sub this morning (1mg) and hit a hot showe . Really didn't want to get up as I'm very tired from yesterday and VERY SORE in the legs department from running and gym. Got to the gas station opened up, drank a cup of coffee and cigarette. Today I feel a lot of join and muscular pain and I don't know if this is from the gym of withdrawals. The pain started late last night and its very very anoyying at this point. But I took Advil for that. Dealing with a little low mood today. Its easy to get motivated in the first few days when everything was crashing down but today I'm having a hard time not dwelling on cravings and thoughts. I'm determined not to use but I wish these thoughts would stop. Its always the quick flash of the needle and the spoon and the thought of pushing down the plunger! Omg I have to stop! I hate these pesky cravings only an iv user can understand how that is but it sucks. But it sucks worse using and being out there than being clean and just having flash thoughts I keep telling myself. This will get better as I integrate my recovery versus time. I bet I could even derive q function that describes my recovery mathematically (Mineral may get a kick out of that haha). One more thing, so the store i am at sells kratom concentrate shots called viva zen and ive had a history of abusing those when i ran low on oxys to help me make it through the day and they are opiod receptor agonists and yhe cravings just are worse when i have these damn shots in front of me in abundant supply and so accessible and easy to take. But i know they are addictive to me and get me high so i must refrain from this to stay clean. The fact that I have such easy access and money at my disposal really is a huge trigger and makes the process of curbing cravings a bit harder but i keep in my mind all that i have to lose by picking up. This is the only thing keeping me sober right now. Anyways, its another day of recovery and doing all I can to stay clean and keep on pushing. Plan to go to gym and do chest and triceps today which is my favorite muscle group so at least that's a plus. Again thank you everyone for your comments and allowing me to voice and let my thoughts out through this page.

liv1ce

rock be a rock.

It is easy on this end after being where you are to sit back a see the addict voice talking to you. Remember there is a physical/chemical component to this as you body and brain recognize the lack of what has become a "normal" state for them. They are trying to restore that "normal" and will talk to you in many ways to try to motivate the return.

It is just like being thirsty. When normal fluid balance exists the body is satisfied but as one dehydrates during a normal day the mechanisms for recovery will make you feel thirsty and if not satisfied will become ever more demanding until you finally relent and drink something.

The advantage is that you HAVE TO eventually drink something but you DON"T HAVE TO take any drugs. Thirst won't pass. Cravings will.

rockstar30

Hi everyone! Day 5 ended last night with a very severe feeling of lethargy and weakness. I think it is from over taxing my body by going to the gym and working long shifts at work. I slept about 6 hours last night but really could have slept longer if I didn't have to work again. I think the sub dose is really helping me sleep.

rockstar30

Good morning day 6. Today is the first day that I won't have a small sub dose in the morning. I feel the effects of not taking that dose pretty obviously. Stomach cramps in the morning (slight and not full on) I took 4mg loperaminde for this. Much worse rls and muscle pain. My whole body is EXTREMELY sore from the gym, however I didn't go to gym yesterday. Cravings much more pronounced than previous days. I have a buddy who has more sub strips and I called him and he said he can spare me one for a high price. I don't want more than 1 which I will use to taper further for one more week according to an internet sub taper plan for high level opiate abuse. I told him of my situation and what I want to do and getting clean and all and he's supportive of this. He won't offer me oc pills and he isn't a dealer. Just a pain patient scripted sub's for back pain (weird script for pain I know). I am going to try to make it as long as I can handle today without the sub because I have to drive 2 hours to get it. I really don't want to use it but I know this withdrawal will get worse in another day if I don't have at least .5mg dose of sub to help with cravings and energy. I just have too much to do with work to be feeling like this. If I had two days off from work I really would just lock myself in my room and go through this but that just isn't gonna happen. I've been looking into Valerian root capsules for anxiety relief instead of sub's but I can't find them at my local pharmacy/Walmart. I've looked into high dose loperaminde for withdrawal but I don't know if I should try that. I mean taking 20-30 pills seems kind of wrong...but some forums say it works. I just think one more week of low dose sub tapering will do the trick. Idk, I'm feeling kinda low and cold right now any suggestions would be much appreciated. Thanks!

rockstar30

God this anxiety is terrible. My extremities feel so cold too. Just overall bad discomfort today. Took a single dose of nyquil let's see if this helps me any.

gnarlyboots

Keep going mate, you've got your whole beautiful life ahead, you don't need pills to feel good. Like Redmanc says, drugs are fools gold, they promise you everything but instead they steal everything that is most precious.

rockstar30

Gnarly, I'm trying my best and I finally really really get that now. I had a long convo with my girlfriend today and she told me this was the last time that she could take this and there won't be a next time. She said she loves me no matter what but has to look out and protect herself and doesn't want to become a lifelong victim of my substance abuse. Its really up to me to make sure this doesn't happen again. This isn't an innocent game of experimenting as a young man anymore. I'm getting too old for this and I'm becoming a veteran opiate abuser and addict. There aren't anymore excuses I can give about this I know better than to go back. I really must stop this once and for all. Today is drawing to a close and 6 days away from sticking needles filled with oxyjuice are completed! I had terrible anxiety all day and my non user friend with back pain and a sub scrip gave me an 8mg strip to use to further taper. The only reason I chose to do this was because my use was very heavy and intravenous and so the anxiety and withdrawal I'm faced with won't allow me to function at work where customers will obviously know something is wrong. They could tell today even with only 24 hours without sub they kept asking if I was OK and why I was so tense and agitated. I can't imagine how it would be tmrw without a little help from suboxone. I'm following a two week taper regimen I found online from a really good source called howtoquitheroin.com I'm not using sub's to get high nor do I have any desire to be high anymore. I'm literally only using the bare minimum dose (around .75mg) to cover up symptoms mostly but not completely. This way I kind of "spread out" my withdrawal and reduce intensity but increase time of withdrawal. I'm not worried about dependence to suboxone because my plan is to stop after day 12 or 14 and Ill only have had a total of 3 strips. Even at my high level of usage, I found that I only need 1mg to cover up my symptoms mostly and 2mg would cover them completely without cravings as well! This leads me to really question why doctors male patients take 8-16mg a day without end! They really must want people to be hooked so they can make more money, I see no other reason as to why such high dosages are used!
Anyways, going to the gym to do chest today and further my healthy eating and exercise regimen to boost endorphin so that when I do jump ship from suboxone as well I won't have much discomfort!

rockstar30

I'd also like this thread to be a proof and inspiration to high level use addicts wanting to use a quick sub taper to come off without much withdrawal. Most sources online say short tapers aren't that useful and a 1-2 month sub taper is recommended ad the way out. I'd like to prove that a 10-14 day taper along with exercise can curb withdrawals and successfully quit a heavy iv habit.

rockstar30

Good morning day 7. I really have to recommend low dose sub taper for heavy opioid habits. A low dose of between .5-1mg is working so well to help ease withdrawal and curb cravings while allowing me to maintain a normal state. Had good sleep last night and woke up refreshed (6 hours sleep) ready to take on the day! I will keep posting through the sub taper and through coming clean off sub's as well. I don't consider myself "dirty" from taking sub in low doses because I'm not chasing any high nor does sub get me high. I've no desire for opioid intoxication. I'm merely using sub as a crutch to come off this withdrawal as comfortably as possible. I'm very thankful today for this.