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I take ULTRAM and I want to stop!

Old 08-29-2012, 09:29 PM
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I take ULTRAM and I want to stop!

Hi,

My name is Tim and I hurt my back really bad 10 years ago when I was lowered to the ground too fast on a rescue hoist in a blackhawk helicopter while attempting to rescue someone. I now have titanium and synthetic disks placed from L4, L5 and S1 and I am almost completely functional but I do have chronic pain. As one might have guessed by the blackhawk comment, I am military and I am just now going through the retirment process with 23 years of service to this great nation. What brings me here today is the fact that I am struggling with a nasty addiction to ultram... a drug we were all told was not addictive. I started taking ultram not long after my injury, I would say after I weened down from the heavy stuff in 2002. At the time ultram worked good enough that I didn't have to take any opiates to control my pain but now after 10 years my tolerance to the drug coupled with the pain I have and my addiction has me taking anywhere from 25 to 30 50mg tablets a day. I have tried to quit taking ultram 3 times now and have obviously failed at every attempt. The first time I was only taking about 10 to 12 a day and I quit cold turkey and went to AA and NA meetings and I lasted for almost 2 months before I couldn't take it no more and went back to the doc and got started on it again. The second time I tried to quit was last year.... I was taking 20 to 30 a day and I sought help through the Army Substance Abuse Program and was sent to a rehab in California for 36 days. While in rehab they gave me subutex for the initial withdrawl and then nothing for the next 30 days. By the time I got back home I was finally sleeping through the night but during the day I felt the same way I did the first time I quit and that was constant pain, pure exhaustion, absolutely no energy and it took everything I had just to move! By the time 45 days rolled around I once again couldn't take it anymore. Now I am back up to taking 25-30 a day and I absolutely hate it!! I want to have the old me back that never had to take anything. I know my health is in jeopardy and I hate being who I have become. This crap has changed me so much and taken so much from me but every time I stop I just cant stick with it because after 30 or 40 days of hurting like hell and having zero energy to do anything it seems like I would be better off taking ultram because at least I can function and I have some energy. But I know that I have to quit taking this crap because if I don't it's going to kill me. I keep regular checks on my liver functions test and kidneys and so far I have only slightly elevated liver enzymes but I don't want to keep pushing the envelope because I feel like I have been very lucky to stay as healthy as I have thus far. I know that ultram has very similar properties to SNRI drugs as well as opiates and I believe that may be the reason it is so damn hard to stop taking. All I know is that I have survived 23 years of service, deployed numerous times, did CRAZY dangerous missions to rescue people for years and I don't want ultram to be what takes me out after all of that....especially now that I am retiring at the age of 41. Does anyone have any advice for me because I am going to try this again but I HAVE to do something different this time because I don't want to fail again.. I don't want to fail my wife, my kids, my family and friends but most of all I don't want to fail me again.

Thank You all for any support or advice and god bless you!

Tim
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Old 08-29-2012, 09:46 PM
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I have not experience with Ultram but I wanted to say hi and welcome Tim

I think a programme like NA (or an alternative programme) will help you to stay clean if you stick with it, but naturally it won't do anything for your pain - have you been to pain clinic or seen a pain specialist?

have you actually seen a Dr about your addiction lately?

There are a wide variety of treatments available for pain now - you owe it to yourself to check out all your options I think.

D
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Old 08-29-2012, 09:58 PM
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Tramadol has a low abuse potential but it is physically addictive. I heard the withdrawal isn't as bad as other opioids in the sense of physical withdrawal but nevertheless any withdrawal is horrible. I heard the depression from Tramadol can get bad, worse than withdrawing from stronger opioids.

The reason for this is because as well Tramadol being a opioid it also inhibits the reuptake of norepinephrine as well as inducing serotonin release, most other opioids do not do that. Have you talked to a doctor about weaning slowly off Tramadol? Or do you want kick it cold turkey?

I would talk to your doc about weaning because it's the easiest way.

Hang in there man it is tough and thanks for your service to this country!
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Old 08-30-2012, 05:28 AM
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DEE 74- I have seen the pain management doc several times but the problem I am having is that since I went to my doc and told them about my addiction last year and went to rehab they are no longer willing to do much for me. I have had several injections that do seem to help and the only other option he is giving me is to place a neurostimulator on my spine and use a remote control to basically zap myself with electricity thus blocking the pain signals from reaching the brain but I'm not going to do that. So no matter how bad I am hurting they won't give me anything since I was up front and asked for help to get things under control so my only option is to buy ultram online and it's obviously not working for me anymore. So I am just hanging on by a thread until I retire and can get a civilian doctor that will set up a treatment plan with me and maybe do a contract or something so that I can actually get the proper treatment.
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Old 08-30-2012, 05:55 AM
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Markus- I am thinking about seeing a civilian doctor and just paying for it out of my pocket since the military's insurance won't cover it because the military has services available on the island. I understand that ultram works differently than opiate based narcotics which leads me to this question... Do you know of or heard of any success with the treatment of ultram dependency by using Effexor (since it is a SNRI)? I think the reason I felt so exhausted after 30 days to 2 months of being off ultram is because of the seritonin and norepinephrine properties and my brain just hadn't had enough time for things to get back to normal... but how long does it take? In my job it's hard to get by day to day without having any energy and feeling literally exhausted all the time and after about 45 days with very little improvement it's very hard to not just give up and start taking it again for the sake of feeling like being alive (not to mention the pain I was having).
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Old 08-30-2012, 05:59 AM
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Hi I'm in a simular situation I never got addicted to ultram but I did everything else. I feel for you. I have to say that once you get past the paws the pain does get better at least it did for me. Once you retire you can properly have it treated but I have to warn you every pm Dr. I have gone to trys to give me long term meds. the last guy actually listened I needed meds but we went week to week and after the shots we stopped its only been a short time but so far so good. I'm also near retirement have been doing a very physical job since I was a young guy now 27 years later 3 years from retirement they want to forget my name. It sucks Good luck with your pending retirement
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Old 08-30-2012, 07:20 AM
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Originally Posted by Rakkadoc View Post
Do you know of or heard of any success with the treatment of ultram dependency by using Effexor (since it is a SNRI)? I think the reason I felt so exhausted after 30 days to 2 months of being off ultram is because of the seritonin and norepinephrine properties and my brain just hadn't had enough time for things to get back to normal... but how long does it take?
That is an interesting question.

Remember though, the addiction is to the opiate agonistic properties of tramadol, not it's SNRI activity... and many who suffer opiate withdrawal symptoms complain of exhaustion, etc... And don't forget the whole dopamine thing. The brain and nervous system sure is complicated... to bad we have to mess with it so much. (My addiction was to stimulants and the first couple of months were very difficult.)

However, it would seem to me that adding an SNRI to your tramadol withdrawal plan wouldn't be unreasonable or particularly dangerous and would be worth a try! Not only that, SNRIs may be of some benefit to help you deal with the chronic pain.

Talk to your doctor about it.
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Old 08-30-2012, 07:23 AM
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I was addicted to Ultram for years..and yes my doctor prescribed me Effexor XR 150mg and it did help, a little with Ultram withdrawls-especially with the withdrawl depression. But honestly, you are going to be tired to a while. I was really tired for about a month. Then gradually my energy started to increase. I also was prescribed Neurotonin for the first month to help with aches and pains. You can get off this stuff I promise..I had been hooked on them for more than a decade. Good luck!
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Old 08-30-2012, 07:43 PM
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A reminder ...this is our SR mandatory posting Rule 10

10. Medical Advice: No Posts giving medical advice, medication advice, or psychiatric advice. Do not use the forum to give or ask for professional medical or psychiatric advice. If you are a medical professional, please remember the forums and chat are for peer support only and not to be used for distributing professional medical advice and/or using the forum to represent your professional services. Medical and Psychiatric advice includes giving a diagnosis, treatment plan, medication advice and dosage suggestions, over the counter and natural home remedies that should be approved by medical professionals. Detox can be dangerous and life threatening at times. Please consult with your physician.
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Old 08-30-2012, 07:45 PM
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Tim...

Thank you for your military service
Welcome to our Substance Abuse Forum
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Old 08-30-2012, 09:15 PM
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Wow... this really hit home for me, Rakkadoc. I was CRAZY addicted to tramadol for over a decade. Went through a 30 day treatment program about 8 years ago only to relapse about 3 months later. Then 4 years ago I went through UROD...rapid detox. Spent a fortune to get off the stuff. Relapsed again 6 months later. I've been on tons of different opiates over the past 20 years, but none have kicked my --- like tramadol. It was much harder for me to get kick than vicodin, perks, and codeine. Please don't beat yourself up over this cuz it's extremely hard to get off of.

I'm really worried about the extremely large dose you'te taking. Seizures are a real possiblity. Maybe you are aware of this? You might want to look into that. I know of at least 6 people who have had grand mal seizures taking doses much lower than what you're are taking.

As for the SNRI's...that is definitely not a good idea until you are off the stuff. You might want to talk to your doc about it. In the meantime, please do some research. Their's lots of info regarding this topic.

I'm almost 4 months sober. This time around I am going to AA. I don't really like going, but I know I have to do something different this time around or I'll go right back to using. I have also found a meditation group I attend twice a week. I thnk it's helping with my anxiety and depression. What I do know is I need outside help...can't do it alone.

Their's lots of options out there...find one or several and stick with it
.
I really wish you the best. Hang in there thing will slowly improve if you don't pick up.
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Old 08-30-2012, 09:21 PM
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I forgot to mention it takes alot longer than 30-40 days to completely heal. It's called Post Acute Withdrawal Syndrome. PLease look it up if you haven't already. The good news is I feel better than I did at 30 days, even more at 60 days, and at 90 days the good days out way the bad. I know it's gonna take time to get to "normal"... but I have to hang in there. So do you...your life depends on it.
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Old 08-30-2012, 11:57 PM
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Sophiamarie2007,

Did you taper off the ultram or do it cold turkey?
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Old 08-31-2012, 01:04 AM
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Originally Posted by Rakkadoc View Post
Markus- I am thinking about seeing a civilian doctor and just paying for it out of my pocket since the military's insurance won't cover it because the military has services available on the island. I understand that ultram works differently than opiate based narcotics which leads me to this question... Do you know of or heard of any success with the treatment of ultram dependency by using Effexor (since it is a SNRI)? I think the reason I felt so exhausted after 30 days to 2 months of being off ultram is because of the seritonin and norepinephrine properties and my brain just hadn't had enough time for things to get back to normal... but how long does it take? In my job it's hard to get by day to day without having any energy and feeling literally exhausted all the time and after about 45 days with very little improvement it's very hard to not just give up and start taking it again for the sake of feeling like being alive (not to mention the pain I was having).
I'm not a psychiatrist by any means but I know about medications, most of them. Since Effexor (Venlafaxine) is a norepinephrine-serotonin reuptake inhibitor I think it could help you, since Tramadol has depleted a lot of it.

Of course the Effexor wouldn't help with the physical withdrawals from Tramadol, but since you said you think depression is the main problem rather than physical withdrawals then I would recommend that you schedule an appointment with a doctor and ask him about Effexor.

You are taking major dosages of Tramadol so physical WD will most likely be an issue as well. Make sure you tell your doctor about every symptom you're having.

Let us know how things go!
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Old 08-31-2012, 04:58 AM
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tim, welcome and thank you for your service!
i have seen quite a few people go through detox that got addicted to ultram. its called hillbilly heroin. it works on the same receptors in the brain as heroin.
as stated, it takes time, and that time is different for different people, for the chemicals in the body/brain to re adjust to it not being there.

please go with yer thought of getting to a civilian doctor.
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Old 08-31-2012, 06:33 AM
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That is something you need to discuss with your doctor. My doctor took me off cold turkey-it's in the package insert that combining the two can definitely increase the likelihood of seizures.High doses of Ultram can also cause seizures. (I had one grand mal while using high dosses of Ultram)

I can tell you that it can be done. You have to accept that you will feel bad for a while. I really wasn't sick for more than a week-but I felt "flat" for some time. I gradually started exercising again-and now about 90% back in my energy level.-It didn't happen overnight and I was prepared for this. In the past that "flat" feeling is what always made me relapse and go back to using. Once I committed to it and accepted that I would feel this way for a while-but not forever-it made it easier. Look at it that your mind and body is getting stronger everyday. You almost have to retrain your brain into functioning without the pills.-I did Rational Recovery-just online. I looked at my addictive voice as the "beast" as they call it and was aware when the "beast" was talking to me. Everyone does recovery different, and what works for one person may not work for another.-You have to be able to make it fit into your lifestyle and life. NA didn't work for me, I am a single Mom with three young kids-I couldn't commit to going to meetings everyday.-But I read everyday, came on here and prayed. I also went back to work full time (after about 2 months of detox..I still didn't feel that great-but I could make it all day. This really helped retrain my brain into getting into a whole new routine)-At almost 9 months now, I no longer think about pills daily. I know I am an addict-and guard myself from comprosing situations (Ironically my job is a Substance Abuse Prevention Coordinator for eight counties in the state) I don't discuss my addiction at work, but keep involved in drug prevention.

Good luck-Keep posting on here. It was a lifeline for me, especially in the beginning. I promise it can be done. I had started taking Ultram in 1998-So I had really damaged my brain and I recovered.
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Old 08-31-2012, 07:32 AM
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Hi again Rakkadoc
This last time I tapered off the ultram. It was one of the hardest things I've ever done. I was successful, but only because my husband of 38 years threatened to leave me.

My starting dose was 15 pills a day. I dropped 1/2 pill every 3 days until I got down below 3 pills, then I stayed at my dose for a week before the next drop. It was the first time in 20 years I was able to successfully taper, but again, I was highly motivated.
Definitely helped with the acute stuff, but I still had depression and anxiety for quite sometime.
I'm four months out now and I still have to fight lack of motivation and that blah feeling that comes with PAWS at times. What I know this time around is I have to have a plan for staying sober or I'll go right back to using. Seems like I would always get to 90+ days and say to myself "screw this", I still feel like crap. No one ever told me it could take a long time before I felt completely normal (sometimes up to a year). This time I'm determined to stick it out.
Please keep posting and let us know how it's going. Best of luck.
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Old 08-31-2012, 08:37 AM
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Here is the PAWS info if anyone is interested

Post Acute Withdrawl - Relapse Prevention Specialists - TLC The Living Center
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Old 08-31-2012, 01:19 PM
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Great article, Carol. I wish I would have known about PAWS when I completed my first rehab years ago.
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Old 09-05-2012, 02:06 PM
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I also have taken tramadol for lower back pain and just wanted to say NOT to take it along with an ssri or snri as it can result in serotonin syndrome which can be fatal. Any dosage of tramadol over 400mg per day can cause seizures. Please see your doctor and ask about switching (you'll need at least five days with no tramadol before you can start an anti-depressant) to an snri. My doctor put me on Cymbalta which can also help with the back pain.
Most of the reason it's hard to get off if is because it does have an snri effect and that's why most people have a hard time. I found it did work better than anything else for my back. The reason most doctors say it has a low addiction potential refers to its activity as a synthetic opioid. As far as comparison, 1 tramadol is equal in pain relief to 1 Tylenol 3.
Hope this helps.
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