Florida "Pill Mills"
Member
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Texas
Posts: 212
Originally Posted by Dukefan 
I don't know what would be the correct way for doctors to administer these drugs correctly. Some people are in pain, and others are abusing these drugs. I wish they could control it better.
If I had known I would go through hell to get off of them, how my dependency would always go up and never down and that my liver would be as damaged as bad as it could be...I wouldn't be eating 7 Lorcets at a time right now.
(...maybe...)
Garden Variety Addict
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Lambertville, NJ
Posts: 310
There is a documentary about the Florida freeforall called "The Oxycontin Express." Florida has less stringent regulations involving the diagnosis and prescribing of pain killers. Consequently, people from Ohio to New England drive to Florida, stop in at one of hundreds of pain clinics, complain of sore shoulder, back, get the prescriptions, then do it like ten more times, and drive home with a couple thousand oxy pills to sell.
The film had undercover cameras documenting the process, what was most disturbing was that some of these pain clinics had pharmacies on site, so it was one-stop shopping. Within an hour an addict could have the drugs. They also showed a nice little drive down A1A and another highway, it was shocking to see all the pain clinics, which should simply be renamed "drug dealer."
The film had undercover cameras documenting the process, what was most disturbing was that some of these pain clinics had pharmacies on site, so it was one-stop shopping. Within an hour an addict could have the drugs. They also showed a nice little drive down A1A and another highway, it was shocking to see all the pain clinics, which should simply be renamed "drug dealer."
Member
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 594
sad, but i seriously doubt that much will be done. There are too many politians in bed with pharmacutical companies.
The blame for this will be pointed square in the face of users only - because- in this world we live in, there are no such things as irresponsible politians or doctors .....
.....fact is, corruption runs rampid
The blame for this will be pointed square in the face of users only - because- in this world we live in, there are no such things as irresponsible politians or doctors .....
.....fact is, corruption runs rampid
Member
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 336
I think people would be flabergasted by how easy it used to be to get narcotics online. I truly, truly believe a majority of these outrageous FL pain clinics stemmed from earlier DEA crackdowns of the online consultation companies/pharmacies. My main supplier was from these online places....
Here's my experience which leads to me think what I state above....
In mid-early 2004 I bought my first opiate online. This is when it all began for me. Was I skeptical? Yes. But I ordered anyway because it was so easy and it was cash on delivery so I wasn't really losing anything (except giving out my name and mailing address). I simply filled out an online form at one of these "consultation" places. It was a VERY basic medical questionaire. My main complaint was migraine headaches. For a relatively small fee the consultation place determined if I qualified for the opiate I ordered and then then would send a "prescription" to one of their "affiliated pharmacies." Then the pharmacy would ship me my meds. That was it. I never talked to a person, no one ever questioned anything. I simply ordered, paid COD and received. My meds almost always came from Florida. These places were called No Record Online Pharmacies (NROP).
It was sometime in 2005 when individual States and the DEA first stepped in (the Saran bust). Up to this point (yes, only 6 years ago) there were no clear laws on what qualified as an online consultation in line with traditional medical standards. Besides a huge DEA bust of individuals connected to these online consultation places that were selling controlled substances online without sufficient medical documentation (they always said the pharmacies were separate, but they were all connected), the first standards were written regarding what constituted a consultation. Trying to force these places to be in line with more traditional standards, this new way of doing things included keeping medical records. What the States could do is forbid the shipment of controlled substances across and within their borders. There were only a few states where people couldn't receive ... I remember Arizona and Kentucky were two.
So after a few months the criminals figured it out and began requiring people to send in a copy of their medical records documenting their condition. The records could be a year old at the most. The records had to be from a face to face appointment with a physician. In my case I contacted my doctors office for a copy of my medical records showing that I had documented migraines and that I was given narcotics to treat them in the past.
So get this. And this is where my sick, sick addict mind is most illustrated....They also required that a person ordering a controlled substance send in a copy of their driver's license! So not only did I fax to these places my private medical records, I faxed in a copy of my ID. Once they had these things, I was good for refills for 3 months before you had to pay for another consultation fee. These places were called ROP's (Records Online Pharmacies).
Fast forward to 2007. Several more DEA busts around the country for noncompliance of the records thing, distribution and dispensing of controlled substances, mail and wire fraud, money laundering and racketeering. This was a multimillion dollar racket. But these places STILL didn't go away. What they ended up doing to make it seem like they were trying to comply with establishing and documenting doctor-patient relationships (the traditional medical standard) was to require a telephone conversation between a "doctor, physician assistant (PA) or nurse practitioner (NP)" and the client requesting the controlled substance.
So I would place my order, make sure they had my recent records and id and wait for the email telling me what time to call for my consultation. I would talk to either a PA or NP and it would go something like this.....my name, do I have pain, have I had an adverse reactions to my narcotics? That was it. Meds on the way....
EVENTUALLY, the DEA got smart(er) (which is still questionable) than these criminals and began requiring face to face consultations. For me, that's when it all caved in. There was NO WAY I was going to do that like thousands of people do and besides, there were none of these clinics in my area. There probably are now. This is when my downward spiral began probably in 2009. There was always a way (if I paid BIG bucks) to get what I needed, but I became unwilling to do it. I began to see the insanity in what I was doing and needed HELP.
Will this ever end? Probably not as long as there is a demand.
So this is where I think these pain clinics in FL originated from for the most part because of the now required face to face with the perscribing provider. The recent busts of clinics is just part of the story. I guess the DEA will just keep chasing them. Their chase is almost as insane as an addict chasing that high they will never get again. I also blame these criminals for the fear legitimate physicians have about writing scripts or writing inpatient orders that are truly needed and the stigma attached to all of it.
Even though they may be an MD or PA or NP or be a pharmacist, these abhorrent people are NOT representative of the medical community. They are criminals. Many of the licenses held by these individuals have some type of disciplinary action against them....a problem and topic for a different time and place.
There are hundreds of thousands health care professionals who are phenomenal at what they do - including pain specialists.
I wonder if any of this was talked about in the documentary Melissa talks about.
Here's my experience which leads to me think what I state above....
In mid-early 2004 I bought my first opiate online. This is when it all began for me. Was I skeptical? Yes. But I ordered anyway because it was so easy and it was cash on delivery so I wasn't really losing anything (except giving out my name and mailing address). I simply filled out an online form at one of these "consultation" places. It was a VERY basic medical questionaire. My main complaint was migraine headaches. For a relatively small fee the consultation place determined if I qualified for the opiate I ordered and then then would send a "prescription" to one of their "affiliated pharmacies." Then the pharmacy would ship me my meds. That was it. I never talked to a person, no one ever questioned anything. I simply ordered, paid COD and received. My meds almost always came from Florida. These places were called No Record Online Pharmacies (NROP).
It was sometime in 2005 when individual States and the DEA first stepped in (the Saran bust). Up to this point (yes, only 6 years ago) there were no clear laws on what qualified as an online consultation in line with traditional medical standards. Besides a huge DEA bust of individuals connected to these online consultation places that were selling controlled substances online without sufficient medical documentation (they always said the pharmacies were separate, but they were all connected), the first standards were written regarding what constituted a consultation. Trying to force these places to be in line with more traditional standards, this new way of doing things included keeping medical records. What the States could do is forbid the shipment of controlled substances across and within their borders. There were only a few states where people couldn't receive ... I remember Arizona and Kentucky were two.
So after a few months the criminals figured it out and began requiring people to send in a copy of their medical records documenting their condition. The records could be a year old at the most. The records had to be from a face to face appointment with a physician. In my case I contacted my doctors office for a copy of my medical records showing that I had documented migraines and that I was given narcotics to treat them in the past.
So get this. And this is where my sick, sick addict mind is most illustrated....They also required that a person ordering a controlled substance send in a copy of their driver's license! So not only did I fax to these places my private medical records, I faxed in a copy of my ID. Once they had these things, I was good for refills for 3 months before you had to pay for another consultation fee. These places were called ROP's (Records Online Pharmacies).
Fast forward to 2007. Several more DEA busts around the country for noncompliance of the records thing, distribution and dispensing of controlled substances, mail and wire fraud, money laundering and racketeering. This was a multimillion dollar racket. But these places STILL didn't go away. What they ended up doing to make it seem like they were trying to comply with establishing and documenting doctor-patient relationships (the traditional medical standard) was to require a telephone conversation between a "doctor, physician assistant (PA) or nurse practitioner (NP)" and the client requesting the controlled substance.
So I would place my order, make sure they had my recent records and id and wait for the email telling me what time to call for my consultation. I would talk to either a PA or NP and it would go something like this.....my name, do I have pain, have I had an adverse reactions to my narcotics? That was it. Meds on the way....
EVENTUALLY, the DEA got smart(er) (which is still questionable) than these criminals and began requiring face to face consultations. For me, that's when it all caved in. There was NO WAY I was going to do that like thousands of people do and besides, there were none of these clinics in my area. There probably are now. This is when my downward spiral began probably in 2009. There was always a way (if I paid BIG bucks) to get what I needed, but I became unwilling to do it. I began to see the insanity in what I was doing and needed HELP.
Will this ever end? Probably not as long as there is a demand.
So this is where I think these pain clinics in FL originated from for the most part because of the now required face to face with the perscribing provider. The recent busts of clinics is just part of the story. I guess the DEA will just keep chasing them. Their chase is almost as insane as an addict chasing that high they will never get again. I also blame these criminals for the fear legitimate physicians have about writing scripts or writing inpatient orders that are truly needed and the stigma attached to all of it.
Even though they may be an MD or PA or NP or be a pharmacist, these abhorrent people are NOT representative of the medical community. They are criminals. Many of the licenses held by these individuals have some type of disciplinary action against them....a problem and topic for a different time and place.
There are hundreds of thousands health care professionals who are phenomenal at what they do - including pain specialists.
I wonder if any of this was talked about in the documentary Melissa talks about.
Member
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 336
Originally Posted by dreamscape
The blame for this will be pointed square in the face of users only - because- in this world we live in, there are no such things as irresponsible politians or doctors .....
The DEA seriously don't care about the addict resulting in part from these places, they want to bust the big guys.
Garden Variety Addict
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Lambertville, NJ
Posts: 310
Originally Posted by glitter
I wonder if any of this was talked about in the documentary Melissa talks about.
The key to the problem is the lack of Florida regulation regarding prescribing and dispensing pain medicine. There is no state database, like other states, so they have no way of knowing if a patient is doubling, tripling, twenty-fiving prescriptions.
As for online purchase, I never tried to score that way. But I get tons of junk email, as I'm sure you do, for percoset, xanax, oxy, it never ends...if I could get my hands around the neck of the person who put me on that email list...
I personally don't believe you can really get that stuff online. I think if you tried you would end up with some watered down or bogus version of the drug shipped from Serbia or Moravia. Maybe it was different five years ago but today, if I were the scam artist, I would rather risk a charge of fraud than a plethara of drug-related and international crimes.
Member
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 336
Originally Posted by MelissaNoDrugs
As for online purchase, I never tried to score that way. But I get tons of junk email, as I'm sure you do, for percoset, xanax, oxy, it never ends...if I could get my hands around the neck of the person who put me on that email list...
Member
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 594
Even though they may be an MD , these abhorrent people are NOT representative of the medical community.
Thing is, to the innocent, they are representive of the medical community. They are crooked but nothing says so on the door to their practices.
In 100's of cases, thier offices are only a few feet away from some of the best doctors out there.
an opiate addiction = a return customer and they know it.
they're just not representative of responsible physicans.
Thing is, to the innocent, they are representive of the medical community. They are crooked but nothing says so on the door to their practices.
In 100's of cases, thier offices are only a few feet away from some of the best doctors out there.
an opiate addiction = a return customer and they know it.
they're just not representative of responsible physicans.
Member
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 336
Originally Posted by dreamscape
Even though they may be an MD , these abhorrent people are NOT representative of the medical community.
Thing is, to the innocent, they are representive of the medical community. They are crooked but nothing says so on the door to their practices.
Thing is, to the innocent, they are representive of the medical community. They are crooked but nothing says so on the door to their practices.
Also, people have the responsibility to take part in their own medical care. Just because someone holds a license doesn't mean that they are an upstanding provider. People have choices. One of those choices is to check the reputation of a potential care giver. This is more difficult in FL because there is NO system of documenting disciplinary actions against doctors...HUGE problem, but it can be done.
Member
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 336
Btw, after reading the indictment in this pill mill case, not a single defendent named is a physician.
This is the info on the first DEA bust I mention in my long post above. They sold real drugs online without a single doubt. I became an addict utilizing these places.
I am 100% convinced that this pill mill thing and the original Saran case (also not a physician) is connected in some way. 100%
This is the info on the first DEA bust I mention in my long post above. They sold real drugs online without a single doubt. I became an addict utilizing these places.
I am 100% convinced that this pill mill thing and the original Saran case (also not a physician) is connected in some way. 100%
Member
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 336
More interesting reading: Ryan Haight Act
K, I think I'm done.
edit: found it! The primary defendent in the FL pill mill case was also found to have purchased 1600 internet domain names.....
http://www.nbc-2.com/Global/story.asp?S=14087228
So it IS connected.
K, I think I'm done.
edit: found it! The primary defendent in the FL pill mill case was also found to have purchased 1600 internet domain names.....
http://www.nbc-2.com/Global/story.asp?S=14087228
So it IS connected.
Member
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Merritt Island, Fl
Posts: 1,164
I have been camped outside of "Pain Clinics" here in florida waiting for them to open more times than I can count. I can honestly tell you that there are more deals goin on in the parking lot than you would think. I would sell most of my script for crack. The waiting room looked like a zombie movie, Im surprised it took this long for the DEA to do something about it.
Member
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 53
What helped me realize it was time to stop was going with my usual "source" to his appt. Wow the office was jammed packed with people from all walks of life waiting for the script. Not one of them showed any signs of pain...W/D yes but not real pain.
Then it was off to find the Pharmacy that would fill for the cheapest. By the way there is one in every corner down here in South Florida. Its not just the pill mills but also all the pharmacy's that have opened up.
It eat a whole day to get "them" I missed work and and didn't get home till late in the night. It was at that time I realized that was not the life for me and also how stupid i was being.
The raids happened just one day after my travels. SCARY
Then it was off to find the Pharmacy that would fill for the cheapest. By the way there is one in every corner down here in South Florida. Its not just the pill mills but also all the pharmacy's that have opened up.
It eat a whole day to get "them" I missed work and and didn't get home till late in the night. It was at that time I realized that was not the life for me and also how stupid i was being.
The raids happened just one day after my travels. SCARY
Member
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 336
I think the last two posts here illustrate why people shouldn't think that these places have anything whatsoever to do with a traditional/legitimate medical community. A video in one of the links I posted have neighbors of a pain clinic describing lines to get into the clinic that wrap around the builidng.
Member
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 53
demand and supply!!! these pill mills are for those already hooked. The real root in my opinion are those hooked for real medical reasons. Doctors think that by giving combo meds they are truly helping.
For those that live with pain I truly feel for you but OXY is not the wonder drug. I got hooked for recreation purposes. Pill mills are for people who now can't live with out them. Or for those who are profiting from others ADDICTION.
For those that live with pain I truly feel for you but OXY is not the wonder drug. I got hooked for recreation purposes. Pill mills are for people who now can't live with out them. Or for those who are profiting from others ADDICTION.
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