monkey1

I started my taper, and thank you for your comments then.

I have determined that I cannot do it and can no longer hide it from my docs. I've tried to convince myself that I am not broken and tired, but, if I'm to be honest, I really just am. I am going to call my np on monday and ask her for any advice/help regarding detox at home, or to be referred to a detox. I just can't do this anymore. The fewer pills I have the more I keep trying to jam in my arms, like a panic. So detox is going to happen one way or another, sooner than my next rx. To add to it I started drinking again to compensate - what an f*in fool! There goes a year without alcohol. Dumbass.

So, I'm scared that they'll think I've been playing them; which, for what its worth I haven't been, entirely - the pain is real - particularly my pain doc (I've always been afraid of this dude) and that I've been shooting these things (maybe they don't need to know that part?), but I guess I am more afraid of getting more and starting this cycle all over again. If the underlying pain doesn't go away after I'm off the narcotics I'll just have to deal with it.

I've got the name of a therapist who specializes in substance abuse and other pertinent issues but he is not back in the office until the 10th. Hopefully I can get somewhere with that, my last therapist 'fired' me.

I appreciate any advice and/or thoughts.

Thanks, all. I hope you all had a happy and safe new year.

Dee74

My advice is always to be honest monkey - you can't expect the best treatment for you if you're not giving your doctors all the information.

D

Vintersemestre

Unfortunately that is not always the case in these situations, Dee. Lack of information and education in general amongst the medical community is a big problem, as are knee-jerk reactionary types and hysteria.

Dee74

And sweeping generalisations tend to run rampant on internet boards LOL

We all owe it to ourselves to find a good Dr we can be honest with - especially those of us with pain issues.

Those kinds of Drs. are out there

D

Timebuster

Tapering is a justification we addicts use to continue our pain and misery. Addiction limits our choices as to how we live. The using lifestyle is dull and repetitious. Once the thrill wears off, we find ourselves forced to get high against our wills.

Addiction can steal our spirit and health while making us feel insecure at the same time. Whatever excitement comes from the trouble in our lives, we find it quickly canceled by inconvenience and pain. We find that our pretense at happiness begins to wear thin and can no longer cover our misery. One method that our disease uses against us in recovery is that it makes us forget the pain of using and causes us to believe the lies that made us use in the first place.

True escape requires active change. I was asked to what length I was willing to go, I said what mountain you want me to climb. Stop taking the talk and start walking the walk. The solutions are there for you. You just want to want it as bad as you want to use. When are you going to realize you can’t win the battle of addiction by yourself? How much more suffering is it going to take before you to humble yourself and surrender and let go. Get honest with your doctors let them be part of the solution instead of the problem,

We know that addiction is incurable, progressive and fatal. It can be arrested at some point and recovery is then possible. The same holds true for other illnesses in recovery. We cannot go back and change what we did to ourselves, but we can choose to live just for today. Even if we cannot arrest physical illness, the spiritual damage it does to us can be stopped. Recovery shows us a new way to live - even with a potentially fatal illness. Anyone with health problems that stays clean "come hell or high water" has something very valuable to share.

Peace and love
Ivan

monkey1

Thanks Dee and Vint for your views. That is one of my concerns, the knee-jerk reaction and hysteria. But, I think I'm going too have to take the chance on being honest, because if I don't that is just one more thing that I have to hide - and when my np asks why I haven't had my blood work done yet (again) I'll have to come up with another excuse. And, of course, it is part of recovery to be honest, right... so I think I need to make that leap.

Time -thank you.

This is exactly how I feel every time, forced. There is no thrill, no excitement anymore, just a sick, nagging need. There have even been times I've been in tears as I prep. I don't want to have to do this anymore.

I do need to make that change from talk to walk. I just wonder how one actively changes that 'want it' from the high to living clean. I have it in my head, I want to get clean; then I get to feeling queasy and scared and I do it again, and again, and again.

I'm learning that I can't do this by myself, now. I know that I can't trust myself to act in my own best interest, now. I am humbled by this - secretly. How stupid is that? Surrender is a big word, a scary word. Pride comes before the fall, eh? I need to get past that pride and ask for help out of this hole and I am scared of that. Scared of the implications and the judgement. I'm going to face that fear, though, and lay it all on the line tomorrow.

You know, I feel so small and stupid and selfish when I think about people with incurable illnesses, like cancer or crohns or horrible debilitating pain, who maintain a, mostly, positive outlook. They are inspiring, sure. I want to find that kind of spirit, that kind of fight. Instead I get high. I run away. My health issues are not in that league, yet I cry and whine. My cancer was removed, yet I haven't found that 'second chance' kind of spirit I thought I'd have. Maybe recovery can spark it? I just feel lost and tired of fighting.

Vintersemestre

I know they're out there, I have one - the problem is when you don't get one and they turn out to be one of these reactionary judgmental types, they'll write something damning on your file which will precllude anyone from ever taking a person seriously again. Trust me, I've seen some of the things some of these heartless arrogant assholes write and I'd never repeat them.

monkey1

That's exactly my fear regarding my pain doc, Vin. I have seen him just cut people off and refuse to talk to them. I can just imagine what he's writing in files. So far he's treated me like an addict since day 1 and then sort of changed his attitude to trust that I'm not, and then back again, last appointment telling me that he doesn't expect that I can beat this demon... he's an ass.
My np though, I trust. I'll consult with her.

Timebuster

He’s the AS* who been writing you the scrip’s that keeps you in active addiction.

There you go again, justification. Your going to justify yourself to an early death.

With all the bridges I burnt and the destruction my addiction coursed. Why would I give a dam what goes on my file unless I don’t want to cut off my source for more pain meds.

Ivan

NAchic

What about finding an addiction phyciatrist? when working with my primary docs or pain management, they seemed to know nothing about addiction..I was given more pills and told to taper off. Well addicts don't taper well.

monkey1

Thanks Time, point taken, I think.

Thanks NAchic, I may ask about that.

Vintersemestre

If he's cutting people off from long-term narcotic use without going through the process of attempting to wean > attempting to c/t > suboxone/methadone then he's really got no business practicing medicine and wouldn't be doing so in this country, especially if he's a pain doctor. I mean god help us, It's like they don't even have to learn anything beyond prohibition laws in the US.

I've heard many stories of how such holier-than-thou "cut-offs" have led to the use of street heroin and overdose deaths, terrible and unnecessary withdrawals that have led to trauma or suicide, I mean we can all play connect-the-dots in our mind. The body acclimates to narcotics and several vital systems are dysregulated so tremendously and so profoundly with prolonged and exponentially increasing use. It hurts, alot, it's terrifying as hell, you'll think you're going to insane and wish you were dead. It's not fun, at all and you have every right to not want to go through that pain and they have no right to do it to you - as it could very potentially cause more harm than good:

"...I will prescribe regimens for the good of my patients according to my ability and my judgment and never do harm to anyone..."

He prescribed them using his judgment and now he wants to do you harm... bit convoluted, no?

I could go on and on but I made my point, so yeah, sorry if I can't place all the blame squarely on your shoulders as many are comfortable doing. Look, if you've been taking them to get high and your use is going up and up at a very fast pace then there could be a serious problem in the near future and you should have some kind of plan in place just in case. Either way the decision to start or stop taking narcotics is not one to be made lightly or on/using/with the advice of me or anyone else on these forums.

And no, I'm not "excusing anyone's behaviour" or anything else people tell me I'm doing that I'm not, I'm relating to someone by discussing their perspective, so shaddap. This is how you have discussions with other humans in free societys - I know how fun pontificating abstinence is - BELIEVE ME I know - but it can be ENRAGING in the context of narcotics. There's simply no other class of drug that screws up your body and brain so badly with such sly malevolence and this is shown no clearer than observing the behaviour and condition of someone who has in the throes of an immediate cessation syndrome. See, "Immediate Cessation Syndrome", not "withdrawal", just like they did with antidepressants. "Discontinuation syndrome", not withdrawal. Withdrawal is an ugly word for ugly people, after all. It's either all withdrawal and it's all abberant or it's all biological and perfectly normal.

I mean if you're someone who destroyed your whole entire life and world because of narcotics it's only natural to become stern and angry towards the topic - but believe it or not there ARE ACTUALLY a lot of people who's life is not torn to shreds by taking pills. We're all different.

When it comes to pharmacology and how chemicals effect the body there are really no grey areas for government or gnostic/deist opinions, just comprehension of chemistry, pharmacology and human anatomy. Hasn't swayed many people's opinions on the matter much over the years, despite advances in medicine so unexpected so as to be totally unforeseeable, laws remain illogical, incomprehensible, useless and unchanged.

Wake up, guys, seriously.

windysan

i couldn't taper jack 5hit

bval

Even though I damn near did destroy my life with narcotics, I still agree with what you've said Vinter, esp. in the sense that I believe it should be illegal for doctors to 'cut off' people from narcotics w/o a good faith effort to help them get off of them humanely when the time comes.

What you call Prohibition Hysteria, and what I call the 'War on (Some) Drugs' ... bug the crap out of me. I think it's BS.

Anyways, I will say, though, that I still think it's worth being honest with your doctor and letting the chips fall where they may with regards to issues like these.

monkey1

Hey Windy - apparently neither can I ;-)

Thanks Bval, I'm not sure just how honest I am going to be with the pain guy. Once I get out of detox I think I may just call him and let him know that is the route I went and discontinue seeing him. I know that's a big risk I'm leaving myself open on... I could very well just go back to him and continue the taper... I'll have to think on that one. I've been completely honest with my np, now. All my cards are on the table.

monkey1

Ok, so I authorized my np to call the pain guy. I know its a p**** move but I practically hyperventilate thinking about telling him. So that door is closed.