Is AA/NA a cult?
Evolving Addict
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: New York State
Posts: 3,067
Here's a definition of cult from a pretty old dictionary I often use:
Cult: [1] A formal religious veneration, [2] a religious system; also it's adherents, [3] faddish devotion; also: a group of persons showing such devotion - cultist. n
I don't claim to be the shiniest apple on the tree, but based on my experience...I'd have to say that the word "cult" doesn't apply to NA or AA. I'm an NA member and was once a member of AA, and I just don't see it. I haven't been to an AA meeting in many years, but we certainly don't do worship in NA and we don't have leaders in the sense of a ruling class - our leaders are but trusted servants...they do not govern. There are no commands or demands made of anyone, but there are many suggestions. As already mentioned here, one of the most important words in the intro to the 12 steps is "if."
"If you want what we have to offer..."
If not...the door isn't locked.
Cult: [1] A formal religious veneration, [2] a religious system; also it's adherents, [3] faddish devotion; also: a group of persons showing such devotion - cultist. n
I don't claim to be the shiniest apple on the tree, but based on my experience...I'd have to say that the word "cult" doesn't apply to NA or AA. I'm an NA member and was once a member of AA, and I just don't see it. I haven't been to an AA meeting in many years, but we certainly don't do worship in NA and we don't have leaders in the sense of a ruling class - our leaders are but trusted servants...they do not govern. There are no commands or demands made of anyone, but there are many suggestions. As already mentioned here, one of the most important words in the intro to the 12 steps is "if."
"If you want what we have to offer..."
If not...the door isn't locked.
Attended By a Single Hound
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: England
Posts: 425
I felt some of the rigid ways of NA were ‘cultish’.
I found NA very difficult (not as an addict, but as an individual) because of the religious element. I ventured out a bit and attended various meetings, attempting to find a group who I related to and who understood the ‘higher power’ to be anything but some omniscient God figure. I failed to find one group who had a different take on the ‘higher power’ malarkey.
I felt uncomfortable asking for the power to accept or change anything because, while I think in essence it’s a great idea, I wasn’t sure who I was asking or directing my prayers towards.
Whenever I voiced my confusion or thoughts on the subject I was met with ‘you’ll accept God when you’re further into recovery’. I didn’t want to swap smack for God.
Eventually I broached the idea that ‘God, as I understand God’ was actually a force within myself, within every person, which is in opposition to the negative part of our souls which –as addicts- we have all let control us...a sort of yin and yang approach. I was told that I was simply denying the first step...that I hadn’t yet accepted I was helpless over my addiction and needed to look outside of myself. I wanted to look both within and without; I didn’t want to have to deny that either had their worth.
I ain’t denying AA and NA have helped so many people. The work of AA/ NA has helped and bettered the lives of not just addicts, but their families and friends and that’s amazing.
My only concern is that AA / NA alienates certain addicts in order to make others feel less alienated...through some of their rules etc. My reluctance to accept God, as 'they' understood him, in my life placed me outside of the circle, metaphorically...beyond acceptance. As a junkie fresh from cold turkey feeling isolated and mute already, being told my beliefs were the product of being a smackhead and needed to change only conpounded my feeling of mute-ness. Because I didn’t have the sober time to deny the claim that my beliefs would change I felt I had no voice, no way of saying ‘I’m not sure I agree’. Every attempt was met with ‘Give it time, you’ll see things differently’.
Its nearly been a year now. While many of my thought patterns have positively altered, my beliefs remain relatively intact and the same. My beliefs weren’t the problem and they didn’t enable me to use. If anything, the resistence I showed towards what I believed, deep down, was the problem.
I am still not religious. I look for a higher power within people, not without them. I believe that being helpless over my addiction did not render me helpless entirely, or helpless over every other aspect of my life.
I still respect the people I met, the ones I got on with and the ones I didn’t. They all helped me and so did NA. It helped me to realise maybe it wasn’t the right path for me, but that it is for many people.
I just, like many, wish there was an alternative. Other people have said it already, but it feels like saying no thanks to AA / NA can be hard (even if you ain’t getting what you need from it) because the other route is one you often have to walk alone.
That’s why I’m so grateful to this place and you people. Yeah, sure I’ve had people disagree with me on here, but a lot of that’s been more useful to me than people agreeing and I ain’t ever felt like the length of my sobriety so far wholly determines the validity of my beliefs or anything of the like. Finding this place was life changing for me. I never thought an online community was much more than talking Star Wars or ordering a Thai Bride, lol, but that’s just another way in which my preconceptions have been challenged too.
You guys rock, all of ya’ in y’own ways.
I found NA very difficult (not as an addict, but as an individual) because of the religious element. I ventured out a bit and attended various meetings, attempting to find a group who I related to and who understood the ‘higher power’ to be anything but some omniscient God figure. I failed to find one group who had a different take on the ‘higher power’ malarkey.
I felt uncomfortable asking for the power to accept or change anything because, while I think in essence it’s a great idea, I wasn’t sure who I was asking or directing my prayers towards.
Whenever I voiced my confusion or thoughts on the subject I was met with ‘you’ll accept God when you’re further into recovery’. I didn’t want to swap smack for God.
Eventually I broached the idea that ‘God, as I understand God’ was actually a force within myself, within every person, which is in opposition to the negative part of our souls which –as addicts- we have all let control us...a sort of yin and yang approach. I was told that I was simply denying the first step...that I hadn’t yet accepted I was helpless over my addiction and needed to look outside of myself. I wanted to look both within and without; I didn’t want to have to deny that either had their worth.
I ain’t denying AA and NA have helped so many people. The work of AA/ NA has helped and bettered the lives of not just addicts, but their families and friends and that’s amazing.
My only concern is that AA / NA alienates certain addicts in order to make others feel less alienated...through some of their rules etc. My reluctance to accept God, as 'they' understood him, in my life placed me outside of the circle, metaphorically...beyond acceptance. As a junkie fresh from cold turkey feeling isolated and mute already, being told my beliefs were the product of being a smackhead and needed to change only conpounded my feeling of mute-ness. Because I didn’t have the sober time to deny the claim that my beliefs would change I felt I had no voice, no way of saying ‘I’m not sure I agree’. Every attempt was met with ‘Give it time, you’ll see things differently’.
Its nearly been a year now. While many of my thought patterns have positively altered, my beliefs remain relatively intact and the same. My beliefs weren’t the problem and they didn’t enable me to use. If anything, the resistence I showed towards what I believed, deep down, was the problem.
I am still not religious. I look for a higher power within people, not without them. I believe that being helpless over my addiction did not render me helpless entirely, or helpless over every other aspect of my life.
I still respect the people I met, the ones I got on with and the ones I didn’t. They all helped me and so did NA. It helped me to realise maybe it wasn’t the right path for me, but that it is for many people.
I just, like many, wish there was an alternative. Other people have said it already, but it feels like saying no thanks to AA / NA can be hard (even if you ain’t getting what you need from it) because the other route is one you often have to walk alone.
That’s why I’m so grateful to this place and you people. Yeah, sure I’ve had people disagree with me on here, but a lot of that’s been more useful to me than people agreeing and I ain’t ever felt like the length of my sobriety so far wholly determines the validity of my beliefs or anything of the like. Finding this place was life changing for me. I never thought an online community was much more than talking Star Wars or ordering a Thai Bride, lol, but that’s just another way in which my preconceptions have been challenged too.
You guys rock, all of ya’ in y’own ways.
The truth shall set you free
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 5,267
What is the NA program?
NA is a non-profit fellowship or society of men and women for whom drugs had become a major problem. We are recovering addicts who meet regularly to help each other stay clean. This is a program of complete abstinence from all drugs. There is only one requirement for membership, the desire to stop using. We suggest that you keep an open mind and give yourself a break. Our program is a set of principles written so simply that we can follow them in our daily lives. The most important thing about them is that they work.
There are no strings attached to NA. We are not affiliated with any other organizations, we have no initiation fees or dues, no pledges to sign, no promises to make to anyone. We are not connected with any political, religious, or law enforcement groups, and are under no surveillance at any time. Anyone may join us, regardless of age, race, sexual identity, creed, religion, or lack of religion.
We are not interested in what or how much you used or who your connections were, what you have done in the past, how much or how little you have, but only in what you want to do about your problem and how we can help. The newcomer is the most important person at any meeting, because we can only keep what we have by giving it away. We have learned from our group experience that those who keep coming to our meetings regularly stay clean.
Is NA a cult?
No. We have no authority figures. Members who chair NA meetings or service structures do so on a voluntary and short-term basis and are elected to do so. Elected by you the NA member. The NA program is the result of the experiences of many recovering addicts worldwide, never that of one member. The money that goes in the basket is voluntary. Contributions are for rental of meeting premises and refreshments, and non-profit literature sales.
Is NA a religious program?
No. Although the terms "God" and "Higher Power" do appear in our literature, they are meant as spiritual terms. Our membership includes anti-religious people, atheists, agnostics, spiritual people, Christians, Muslims, Jews and Hindus. We don't worship in NA.
Lost of freedom?
The only freedom I lost from going to NA, was the freedom from the obsession of mood/mind altering drugs.
NA is a non-profit fellowship or society of men and women for whom drugs had become a major problem. We are recovering addicts who meet regularly to help each other stay clean. This is a program of complete abstinence from all drugs. There is only one requirement for membership, the desire to stop using. We suggest that you keep an open mind and give yourself a break. Our program is a set of principles written so simply that we can follow them in our daily lives. The most important thing about them is that they work.
There are no strings attached to NA. We are not affiliated with any other organizations, we have no initiation fees or dues, no pledges to sign, no promises to make to anyone. We are not connected with any political, religious, or law enforcement groups, and are under no surveillance at any time. Anyone may join us, regardless of age, race, sexual identity, creed, religion, or lack of religion.
We are not interested in what or how much you used or who your connections were, what you have done in the past, how much or how little you have, but only in what you want to do about your problem and how we can help. The newcomer is the most important person at any meeting, because we can only keep what we have by giving it away. We have learned from our group experience that those who keep coming to our meetings regularly stay clean.
Is NA a cult?
No. We have no authority figures. Members who chair NA meetings or service structures do so on a voluntary and short-term basis and are elected to do so. Elected by you the NA member. The NA program is the result of the experiences of many recovering addicts worldwide, never that of one member. The money that goes in the basket is voluntary. Contributions are for rental of meeting premises and refreshments, and non-profit literature sales.
Is NA a religious program?
No. Although the terms "God" and "Higher Power" do appear in our literature, they are meant as spiritual terms. Our membership includes anti-religious people, atheists, agnostics, spiritual people, Christians, Muslims, Jews and Hindus. We don't worship in NA.
Lost of freedom?
The only freedom I lost from going to NA, was the freedom from the obsession of mood/mind altering drugs.
Member
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 68
Says it all:
The Cult Called A.A.
Also - choices not diseases:
Addiction: New research suggests it’s a choice - Health Q&A The Interview - Macleans.ca
The Cult Called A.A.
Also - choices not diseases:
Addiction: New research suggests it’s a choice - Health Q&A The Interview - Macleans.ca
Member
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 6,947
Cults... Seems that most cults we hear about have a very powerful hold over the individual members. The cult and cult leaders hold the power... money, shelter, food, message, whatever.
In AA the individual has the power. There are no leaders, dues, rules... AA's power comes from AA unity. The power flows back from AA to the individual to help empower that individual on his or her path to recovery.
Power flows from the individual to the AA group and then back to the individual.
In a cult, power flows only one way ... to the leaders of the cult.
Mark
In AA the individual has the power. There are no leaders, dues, rules... AA's power comes from AA unity. The power flows back from AA to the individual to help empower that individual on his or her path to recovery.
Power flows from the individual to the AA group and then back to the individual.
In a cult, power flows only one way ... to the leaders of the cult.
Mark
Member
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Upstate New York
Posts: 1,401
((Joe))
I find it very telling that you posted this thread IN SPITE of the fact that you attend NA meetings. If you had just stormed from the fellowship and had an ax to grind, I wouldn't give this thread a second read. Since that's not the case, I'm going to admit to having had some of the same feelings as you have expressed here. With that admission, I propose that you might want to consider whether or not AA/NA is more like a society or fraternity than like a cult.
People join fraternities and societies (even within religious organizations) in order to gather for a common purpose, many times with fellowship or the improvement of the individual being the primary goal(s). (This is all Christin-definitions, please don't pit me against Webster). These societies/fraternities have a main idea or mission that calls them together. They often have special rituals or celebrations that help them to identify with each other.
Like you, I also feared being brainwashed until I considered that those on the outside usually consider the teachings of cults to be outlandish. So, I tried to ask myself, "How would a non-alcoholic, non-addict read the "teachings" presented by AA/NA?" If they could be read by the "outsider" as sane, rational ideas, then I can probably consider that they are reasonable and that it's my diseased brain that is having qualms.
I continue to struggle with the idea that sobriety is the ultimate good (which is how I read the literature) and that everything else takes a back seat, including my specific religious practices or my long-held understanding of a Higher Power. (Let's be honest, is not everything expendable if it interfers with getting clean/sober?) All the same, I continue to attend both AA and NA because, like you Joe, I see that they work.
So, if for no other reason than it has helped me, I thank you for posting this thread, Joe. I appreciate that you were honest (and brave) enough to bring this topic to the forum in a sane manner. I also appreciate all those who have made charitable and sane posts in reply, adding to the helpfulness of honest dialogue. After all, if we don't give voice to our doubts and concerns, our addiction will use them against us.
I find it very telling that you posted this thread IN SPITE of the fact that you attend NA meetings. If you had just stormed from the fellowship and had an ax to grind, I wouldn't give this thread a second read. Since that's not the case, I'm going to admit to having had some of the same feelings as you have expressed here. With that admission, I propose that you might want to consider whether or not AA/NA is more like a society or fraternity than like a cult.
People join fraternities and societies (even within religious organizations) in order to gather for a common purpose, many times with fellowship or the improvement of the individual being the primary goal(s). (This is all Christin-definitions, please don't pit me against Webster). These societies/fraternities have a main idea or mission that calls them together. They often have special rituals or celebrations that help them to identify with each other.
Like you, I also feared being brainwashed until I considered that those on the outside usually consider the teachings of cults to be outlandish. So, I tried to ask myself, "How would a non-alcoholic, non-addict read the "teachings" presented by AA/NA?" If they could be read by the "outsider" as sane, rational ideas, then I can probably consider that they are reasonable and that it's my diseased brain that is having qualms.
I continue to struggle with the idea that sobriety is the ultimate good (which is how I read the literature) and that everything else takes a back seat, including my specific religious practices or my long-held understanding of a Higher Power. (Let's be honest, is not everything expendable if it interfers with getting clean/sober?) All the same, I continue to attend both AA and NA because, like you Joe, I see that they work.
So, if for no other reason than it has helped me, I thank you for posting this thread, Joe. I appreciate that you were honest (and brave) enough to bring this topic to the forum in a sane manner. I also appreciate all those who have made charitable and sane posts in reply, adding to the helpfulness of honest dialogue. After all, if we don't give voice to our doubts and concerns, our addiction will use them against us.
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