when will it end???

[jen32]

my name is jen, i was 32 when i first logged onto soberrecovery, i am now
37 almost 38. i have been living a life of active addiction for a long time. my
addiction to meth started at the age of 24. in the last 13 yrs iv had a soberiety period of about 1 and 1/2 yrs. i am tired, really tired. iv been in and
out of the doors of A/A and N/A over and over again & they keep saying to
Keep Coming Back, so i do. sometimes i think 'its ok, im ok' when in actuality i am a mess!!! i have to take some actions (like i havent said that before) and
just do it. i know if i ever want to get anywhere with my life i am going to
have to stop teetering on the fence. aaauuuggghhh!!

[Lenina]

jen,

Welcome back! Please take some time and read through the posts. Lots of good stuff and great people who know what you're talking about.

Love,

Lenina

[tyler]

Welcome, I've been in and out of these forums for a long time too and have only recently taken steps to try to end the madness. I argued long and hard why recovery wouldn't work for me, had a million reasons, but finally something clicked. Not saying I'm "recovered", long way from it, but I'm viewing things with a different mindset.

Instead of trying to figure things out, I'm just trying to take advice from folks who have been able to stay clean for awhile. That includes 12-step stuff, CBT, SMART, a bit of eastern spirituality, whatever I can cobble together to make it, no not make it, to let it work.

I am a devout agnostic, but I've been saying prayers. I have no idea to who or what, but what can it hurt?? I've found someone to help me work with the steps, even though I'm really not sure 12-step recovery is for me.

Reach out like you are doing, and follow through. Like you said, "take some action". Going to meetings only keeps you clean for an hour, you gotta get involved and "work the program". I'm sure you know this, it's just getting it from the head to the heart that took me forever. Best of luck. Take care.

[Cherybaby66]

Don't have too much to offer in the way of advice as you and I didn't abuse the same drug...but I am happy you came back here for some comfort and peace. Read around the forums, as Lenina said. You will find a lot of support here. I know I did...

Peace...and welcome back.

[change4penny]

Hi Jen, I'm a recovering opiate/cocaine addcit, 9 months clean. You and I are about the same age.
I 'teetered' that fence for a very long time...thinking that I could have a normal home and family life while all along using and abusing pills and coke. By the end, the drugs won and slowly took me away from my family and more toward them.
The drugs will always win in that aspect. There's no such thing as a well functioning drug addict. You may be able to 'fake it' for a while, but your addiction will one day take over and destroy you and your family.
Please consider what I'm saying and please get help.
Keep posting...you'll get a lot of good advice and support here.

Penny

[DSoT4Ever]

Have you thought about relocating to an area where meth is not as available?

[Cherybaby66]

Originally Posted by DSoT4Ever

Have you thought about relocating to an area where meth is not as available?

Sadly, it seems to be everywhere...in the poorest communities and the most affluent suburbs. As a nurse, I have treated many addicts that used to come into the ER. They came from all walks of life...

[Wantingit]

Jen,

I know how you feel. I teetered as well over the past 8 years. I have finally "surrendered" and realize that I totally need to let go of the idea that I can use drugs anymore one day at a time. I kept an out always like" I'll go a year and then maybe use" etc. or other crap like that. I would within the next few days use again. I have learned it is a change of mind that makes all the difference and a total that's TOTAL dependance on God!!

[emmer]

In my experience, I find that those who relapse (i've relapsed dozens of time) simply chose dope over a life of recovery.

You've been to lots of AA/NA programs, so you know the program, right?

Lots of people come back in and say "I've been in and out of NA so many times........I wish I could just "get it" and stay clean.

I don't buy that excuse for a New York second.

We relapse because we choose too, period.

That goes for you and me, and everyone else.

[Javier12]

Hey, I'm happy you're here, you're posting and asking for help. Next month I'll be 3 years clean and the first time I asked for help was 14 years ago. I would ask for help, then leave when I felt better (and better means I felt I wasn't about to die) only to go down stronger the next time. After this I would feel so ashamed of myself with my self-esteem down the floor because I had lost control again. And eventually I would start the process again and ask for help.

Wow, this happenend so many times I came to believe there wasn't any hope, any way out. But something led me to accpet help once again, so I did (I didn't ask for help, but help was given and I took it, not for the right motives, but I guess that doesn't matter anymore). I remember saying to myself those first days in rehab, that I was going to do things differently, even tough I didn't really believe in what they were saying, my life depended on me trusting other people. The question has an obvious answer (to me): Why the hell am I so caught up in not trusting anyone but myself, if my own decisions and way of thinking had me where I was?

Take care and be well. Give yourself a chance. Miracles do happen.

[CrackQuack]

Originally Posted by jen32

my name is jen, i was 32 when i first logged onto soberrecovery, i am now
37 almost 38. i have been living a life of active addiction for a long time. my
addiction to meth started at the age of 24. in the last 13 yrs iv had a soberiety period of about 1 and 1/2 yrs. i am tired, really tired. iv been in and
out of the doors of A/A and N/A over and over again & they keep saying to
Keep Coming Back, so i do. sometimes i think 'its ok, im ok' when in actuality i am a mess!!! i have to take some actions (like i havent said that before) and
just do it. i know if i ever want to get anywhere with my life i am going to
have to stop teetering on the fence. aaauuuggghhh!!

Welcome. I am glad you came back. I am 34. Active addicted started when I was 32. Short period of time, I know, but it may have been longer? When I was 12, I started using drugs, but when I got pregnant at 15, I quit everything and didn't look back until my eldest child turned 16 himself. For some reason, I started tooting again. Drank a little more often than normal (usually drank a beer, once a month, turned into drinking a few drinks or beers a week- never falling over drunk or anything like that). The coke use was shooting for the abuse category until I met its "cousin" crack. I honestly think I could not have met a worse drug. I could not get off of it for almost two years. I tried heroin, and YUCK. Saw meth being made, but never tried it. Crack had become my thing and nothing stood in the way of me getting high. Nothing..
I started trying to get off crack last August. Would go a month, use, go a week, use, go two weeks, then go on a using rampage... Just wasn't staying clean. I would think I was doing better by going a week or two without getting high, but then I'd get high and stole money, ran my bank account into the ground, charged up all my credit cards, and sell all my possessions to keep getting more. Once I realized there was absolutely NO control whatsoever, I got serious and attended almost every NA meeting I could in 30 days (missed two due to illness). I had no desire to do 90 in 90. Not everyone is the same. I did get a sponsor. I did do stepwork. I did continue to go to two meetings a week, and have been clean since February 3rd, 2009. Going on 6 months next month. I have no desire to use. Every time I think about what it did, what it could do, and what HAS been, I want to vomit. And I play that tape A LOT, over and over, in my head so I can remember what using got me and what being clean is getting me. I just passed my drug screen for employement (first one I've EVER passed- since 1994 when I hired in at GM), and jumped through all their hoops and got the job. Out of dozens of candidates for this ONE position, I GOT IT! They liked me best, even though they did say I do talk a lot. LOL. NO! Not me! hahahaha..
Anyway, there IS hope! I've never tried Meth, but addiction, to me, is addiction. Whether it be Meth, Crack, Alcohol, Pills, whatever. If it's taking over your life and destroying everything, you need to realize that you have to stop before you end up dead. Or, in my opinion, worse places like institutions or jails... I never feared death, personally. That never woke me up. What woke me up was losing my children and the possibilities that I would waste my life chasing after crack, losing my boyfriend, and going to jail. I don't want to see the wrong end of the cop car. EVER.
I hope you can find the experience, strength, and hope you need in order to get clean and stay that way. SR is a great place to begin your recovery process. Personally, NA didn't do it for me. The books and information are extremely helpful, but the monotone of "if you want what we have" really bothered me. Not once has I have walked into or out of an NA meeting, wanting what ANY of them had. Sure, they were clean, but there are many avenues to getting and staying clean. None of them had become successful, and some were downright psychotic (spelling?). Most went to two and three meetings a day, and while I can understand that for a newbie, MANY of those people had 3-4-5 years or MORE clean. And I found that unacceptable. I don't want to turn you off of NA meetings, frankly... It might be just the area I am in. Us crazies like to gather in one place, ya know. Your NA experiences may differ.
Personally, I found a very hard, tedious, exercise of checks and balances, keeping busy, keeping my nose in my NA/AA books, and my friends and family by my side is working. Will it work forever? Well, forever is a long time and I really don't know. There may come a time I need meetings again, and I will go. It may work. It may not. I also try really hard not to think of the future, and live the two phrases I really DO like, from the NA. JUST for TODAY. And The Serenity Prayer.
*hugs* I really am glad to see you here.

[geothinkah]

I just couldn't seem to get it either. I kept trying all kinds of ways for 25 years. yuk When I did the 12 steps as directed by the Bigbook, I changed. The process worked! I am completely amazed that 'I' really did experience an entire psychic change. The forth step is where I really started to get some insights. The process seems to work itself, if one works it. Good Luck

[SteppingItUp]

When will it end?

When you're willing to do whatever it takes.

As far as NA goes, the saying is it works if you work it.

[change4penny]

"when will it end?" Only two ways I know of for sure:

1) DEATH....definately and end

Now here's the best case scenerio:

2) You put it down and walk away

Keep doing it???? see #1

[jen32]

wow!!! i am so thankful for all ur responses, honestly i didnt think anyone would take
time to check out this 'thread'. you are all awesome!! thanks so much!! LOTS of
good feedback, it especially hit home the answer 1)DEATH 2)stop then go back see #1.
thats pretty powerful stuff.

[TexasMan]

Try SMART or any of the other programs NOT based on 12 step programs as, to put it very plainly, 12 step programs don't work. Even the own studies commissioned by AA show quite clearly that more people stop using drugs and alcohol not going to meetings than those who do.
I agree with CrackQuack in that 12 steppers seem to trade their addiction to whatever for an addiction to meetings. Addiction and/or alcoholism is not a disease. The rehab folks fight hard to talk about it that way as insurance companies won't pay up for rehab if it's not an illness.
It's a choice. You have to come to a place where, for you, the best choice is to change the bad habits. Take an inventory (not the 12 step one where you only inventory the bad) but list your bad and good qualities. We all have both.
You can quit if you want to.
Every year thousands of people change their habits for the better.
So can you!

[Stagebear]

Originally Posted by TexasMan

Even the own studies commissioned by AA show quite clearly that more people stop using drugs and alcohol not going to meetings than those who do.

May I see the data, please?

[bvaljalo]

Originally Posted by TexasMan

Try SMART or any of the other programs NOT based on 12 step programs as, to put it very plainly, 12 step programs don't work. Even the own studies commissioned by AA show quite clearly that more people stop using drugs and alcohol not going to meetings than those who do.
I agree with CrackQuack in that 12 steppers seem to trade their addiction to whatever for an addiction to meetings. Addiction and/or alcoholism is not a disease. The rehab folks fight hard to talk about it that way as insurance companies won't pay up for rehab if it's not an illness.

Even if we accept as fact that more people stop using drugs without going to 12-step meetings, that observation does not logically lead to the conclusions you are drawing from this fact.

To Wit:
1) This fact does not prove that SMART or any other program is more effective than the 12-step programs. Not in any way, shape or form.
2) It does not prove nor even imply that a given INDIVIDUALS chances of quitting are better if they do NOT participate in 12-step programs.

Your argument is exactly analogous to saying 'Most people who die do not die in car crashes. Therefore, you don't have to worry about driving your car safely, because you aren't going to die in your car'.

And why don't you go ahead and explain to us exactly what a disease is ... I'm keen to hear your obviously learned, professional opinion on this subject.

And by the way, an addiction to 12-step meetings has never caused anyone to die, my friend.

[alien22]

I don't really feel like getting in the middle of an 'arguement' as to the efficacy of twelve-step programs, but I am currently a resident at a *very* good inpatient treatment center that does not push the steps, in fact 12-step meeting attendance is optional, I do attend and find it helpful. But 'to each his own'. They have me working on a broad range of issues, including 'DBT' (dialectical behavioral therapy), and other useful methods for dealing with the madness. I hate to see recovering people argue over the best method, it seems to defeat the point. What works for you, works for you.

[Stagebear]

Speaking for myself, I was not arguing. Texas painted a very broad stroke and cited data. I simply asked to see it.

[Nallabelle]

TexasMan- why would you even post that? Its like you have something AGAINST the 12 steps. Im not saying NA is great or terrible, but it makes no sense why you would discourage someone from going to NA. Its not like its BAD. It isnt going to HURT HER RECOVERY. I mean I have never met anyone who said "NA makes me WANT to do drugs". Maybe other programs are better or work better for different people or whatever but seriously this woman is looking for help, lets have an open mind and encourage her to make her own decisions and try a variety of recovery tools to see what works best for her.
Plenty of people recover because of NA and if some of them are addicted to meetings then I guess that is better than the alternative. You arent going to lose your life or your kids from overdosing on meetings.

[TexasMan]

Sorry if I stepped on some toes but my opinion is based on attending meetings, observation, and researching for myself as I'm one of those people who like to know as much as possible about things I'm getting into. I'll post some links (not sure if that's permitted - if not I'll list some searchable names so folks can look it up for themselves).
Not sure if everyone's heard of Stanton Peele but he's pretty well known in the counseling field: Addiction Myth #3 -- addiction is a treatable disease
Also, the Orange Papers (no doubt this person has an axe to grind but the material covered is exhaustively researched and referenced): Orange Papers
Also, Marc Kern, PhD: How to Stop Drinking, Natural Cures for Alcoholism, Addiction Recovery Treatment, Alcohol & Drug Addiction Rehab & Treatment Centers for Teenager/Women
I'm not trying to say anything other than 12 step programs first want to call addiction and/or alcoholism a disease then treat it by a method which isn't medical but spiritual. There's nothing necessarily wrong with that but, being a cancer survivor myself - and an addict, I can tell you it's not a disease. It's a habit.
I'm sure there are some folks who have been helped by these programs but there's a real shortage of any evidence that they really work better than other non-12 step program types. Or nothing at all.
Many people hear have said that the most important step is deciding for yourself to change your behavior and that's very true. For me, and for a lot of people who want to change, the preference would be something proven to work and not assumed to work.
Lastly, my response is regarding the original poster who states they've been doing this for 13 years or so and "it hasn't been working". I'm simply trying to point out to Jen that there are other options...Hopefully, our goal is to help people by any method not just 12 step ones.

[tyler]

Please let's not turn this post into an argument about who has the best program. Everyone has to choose their own path that works for them. 12-step programs have been around the longest and thus are the easiest to find "help" in. Many people have become clean and sober through these programs, that can not be denied.

Many others have used therpy, other programs like SMART, Rational Recovery, Lifering, SOS, just to name a few. Many have recovered with no formal program at all. These are all facts, all you have to do is look around these boards to find the proof.

Originally Posted by jen32

i am tired, really tired. iv been in and
out of the doors of A/A and N/A over and over again & they keep saying to
Keep Coming Back, so i do. sometimes i think 'its ok, im ok' when in actuality i am a mess!!! i have to take some actions (like i havent said that before) and just do it. i know if i ever want to get anywhere with my life i am going to have to stop teetering on the fence. aaauuuggghhh!!

You have hit the nail on the head. YOU have to take some action. If NA/AA is not "working for you" try something else. The key word is TRY. No program will get you clean and sober. You have to do that. All the program can do is provide some guidence and support, but you have to do the hard and often painful work. It would probably help to really commit to one program. Really give it a shot. Follow the suggestions, don't try to overanalize things, just follow the program, and be diligent about it. If after a period of time and REAL EFFORT (say 90 days) you feel it just isn't working, try something else. One thing I can promise you, if you wait around for someone to "recover" you it simply isn't going to happen. You gotta do the work to make it work. I'm sure in your heart you know this to be true. Best of luck. Take care.

[geothinkah]

My Opinion Only - Most stats on the Twelve Step programs are based on membership of the Twelve Step Fellowships, not of the people that work the program of recovery for that Twelve Step Fellowship. There are many many people in the fellowships that don't impliment the steps into their lives. This distorts the stats.

Of alcoholics who came to A.A. and really tried [did the twelve steps], 50% got sober at once and remained that way; 25% sobered up after some relapses, and among the remainder, those who stayed on with A.A. showed improvement. Other thousands came to a few A.A. meetings and at first decided they didn’t want the program. But great numbers of these—about two out of three—began to return as time passed.
(BB Forward to the second edition)

I know because I've tried the fellowship only and had no success. The program of recovery worked for this alcoholic!

[Cathy31]

Well I got clean and sober - happily - through the 12 steps. That's real data Give it a try - WORK the program and you will see results.
Cathy31x