how to stop oxy
Member
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: md
Posts: 3,042
What I can tell you about suboxone is that it doesn't get you high, but it does stop your cravings and make you feel pretty much the way you felt before you got hooked on opiates. Normal. It is for people who are done getting high, but don't feel they can/ want to go through withdrawal successfully at this point in their lives. It can also be difficult to get off of, although I think it much easier than oxy.
It is certainly easier to have a normal life on suboxone than on oxy/perc. For one thing, you don't need much, and it doesn't help to take more than the prescribed dose. A small amount, maybe 4 mgs is all you need every day. So 1/2 a tab a day and you feel physically normal. You will only occassionally crave other drugs while on it, and this is typically mild enough to handle. You can easily taper off of it when you are ready. Doctors say that it helps to repair your brain's ability to make it's own endorphins. That was very helpful to me, as I'm clinically depressive.
The thing is, if you still want to get high all the time, and you don't have a desire to stop getting high, methadone is a better drug for you. But it's harder to quit, and you have to go to the methadone clinic every day, whereas with suboxone, only once a month after the first two weeks. You go every two weeks at first. Not so bad. Most docs that do suboxone don't take insurance, cost $100 approx for a visit. Cheaper than the street drugs by a lot. The pills, if they are not covered by insurance, are about $3-5 each. Still, cheaper than the street, but insurance usually covers the pills.
Shop for a great doc if you do suboxone. One with a good reputation (you can ask around after NA meetings, that is how i got mine) that has a lot of experience with addictionology. Try to find a certified addictionologist. They are more educated on our disease. Also, research suboxone on the internet to see if you want to do it.
Suboxone won't fix the inside part of your disease. If you don't work on that, with a 12-steps fellowship, in my opinion you will probably relapse.
Love,
KJ
It is certainly easier to have a normal life on suboxone than on oxy/perc. For one thing, you don't need much, and it doesn't help to take more than the prescribed dose. A small amount, maybe 4 mgs is all you need every day. So 1/2 a tab a day and you feel physically normal. You will only occassionally crave other drugs while on it, and this is typically mild enough to handle. You can easily taper off of it when you are ready. Doctors say that it helps to repair your brain's ability to make it's own endorphins. That was very helpful to me, as I'm clinically depressive.
The thing is, if you still want to get high all the time, and you don't have a desire to stop getting high, methadone is a better drug for you. But it's harder to quit, and you have to go to the methadone clinic every day, whereas with suboxone, only once a month after the first two weeks. You go every two weeks at first. Not so bad. Most docs that do suboxone don't take insurance, cost $100 approx for a visit. Cheaper than the street drugs by a lot. The pills, if they are not covered by insurance, are about $3-5 each. Still, cheaper than the street, but insurance usually covers the pills.
Shop for a great doc if you do suboxone. One with a good reputation (you can ask around after NA meetings, that is how i got mine) that has a lot of experience with addictionology. Try to find a certified addictionologist. They are more educated on our disease. Also, research suboxone on the internet to see if you want to do it.
Suboxone won't fix the inside part of your disease. If you don't work on that, with a 12-steps fellowship, in my opinion you will probably relapse.
Love,
KJ
Member
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Montana
Posts: 34
Originally Posted by fuster 
I know a lot of people who stop using opiates, but only a few who stayed off them long term (more than 2 years). ASAM states that for all substance abuse disorders, those who remain abstinent longer than 2 years is a mere 2%. That puts the odds of you staying off those pills very slim.
Not what a recovering addict needs to hear, nor a addict thinking recovery.
I think the number for recovery is considerably higher than that and that there is a bright future for many recovering addicts that will last many years.
Member
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Earth
Posts: 1,249
Hey Scared...How are you? I just wanted to tell you that methadone and suboxone are still drugs. They are both addicting, and both pretty hard to get off of. I am not a drug counselor or a doctor, but you cannot expect the medications to do the work for you. You have to go through a little discomfort to get straight. And thats the bottom line. These other drugs just prolong the inevitable. You suffer a bit when you stop using them also. In my mind a few days of discomfort is better than a life time of hell. Man up and don't be afraid, cause there's nothing to be afraid of. I would prefer the suboxone before methadone anyday. I heard that in NY they are doing away with methadone clinics and switiching to suboxone as a replacement drug to help recovering addicts. Good Luck in whatever you choose. The only problem is that suboxone does not mix with other medications very well. You have to be careful. It's not for someone who is on anti depressants and stuff like that. Good luck and God Bless, Angel
Member
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: CA Native
Posts: 2,509
Whenever I read a stat that says something like 2% of users stay clean for over 2 years, a couple things pop into my mind that I believe are quite important ...
1) How did they 'count', exactly, any people that they simply never heard from again? Unless you're talking about a jail setting (not exactly a random sample of the population), it's pretty tough to reliably track a large number of people for 2 years, especially not a bunch of addicts and recovering addicts.
2) No matter what, when you do a study like this, its nearly impossible to truly get a random sample of the total population of people who are abusing drugs. You are likely to only see those with severe enough problems that they are forced to seek help.
3) No matter what the statistics say, the POSSIBILITY that any one individual can get clean and stay clean is still: 100%.
It's kinda like, if you did a study of how many people walk out of a Las Vegas casino DOWN in their money count, and found that it's 98% of people. Which is probably not far from the reality, I might add. Yet, people keep going back, keep gambling, in part because, although they realize that the 'odds' are technically against them, SOMEONE has to be in that 2% of winners. And they figure, hey, it could be anyone, including themselves. And that is totally true, actually.
Well, it's the same way with getting clean. When you look at EVERYONE who might be REMOTELY 'trying', without looking at their motivation levels, or the details of their lives, or anything ... the stats look pretty bad. Most people don't get it right 'the first time', or maybe the second, or third, or fourth ... so all these attempts go down as 'failures' on the books. There is much failure, just like there is much losing in Vegas. But no matter how much the aggregate stats look bad, they have little or no bearing on the possibility that YOU ... might not turn out to be the big winner in the game.
And one last thing ... if you KEEP USING ... the odds are 100% that eventually, your world will consist primarily of jails, and/or institutions. And if those fail, you will 100% certainly succumb to a premature death, most likely following many years of utter despair and misery.
As bad as it is, I still like the sound of 2% quite a bit better than 0%. It's infinitely better, in fact.
1) How did they 'count', exactly, any people that they simply never heard from again? Unless you're talking about a jail setting (not exactly a random sample of the population), it's pretty tough to reliably track a large number of people for 2 years, especially not a bunch of addicts and recovering addicts.
2) No matter what, when you do a study like this, its nearly impossible to truly get a random sample of the total population of people who are abusing drugs. You are likely to only see those with severe enough problems that they are forced to seek help.
3) No matter what the statistics say, the POSSIBILITY that any one individual can get clean and stay clean is still: 100%.
It's kinda like, if you did a study of how many people walk out of a Las Vegas casino DOWN in their money count, and found that it's 98% of people. Which is probably not far from the reality, I might add. Yet, people keep going back, keep gambling, in part because, although they realize that the 'odds' are technically against them, SOMEONE has to be in that 2% of winners. And they figure, hey, it could be anyone, including themselves. And that is totally true, actually.
Well, it's the same way with getting clean. When you look at EVERYONE who might be REMOTELY 'trying', without looking at their motivation levels, or the details of their lives, or anything ... the stats look pretty bad. Most people don't get it right 'the first time', or maybe the second, or third, or fourth ... so all these attempts go down as 'failures' on the books. There is much failure, just like there is much losing in Vegas. But no matter how much the aggregate stats look bad, they have little or no bearing on the possibility that YOU ... might not turn out to be the big winner in the game.
And one last thing ... if you KEEP USING ... the odds are 100% that eventually, your world will consist primarily of jails, and/or institutions. And if those fail, you will 100% certainly succumb to a premature death, most likely following many years of utter despair and misery.
As bad as it is, I still like the sound of 2% quite a bit better than 0%. It's infinitely better, in fact.
Member
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: md
Posts: 3,042
Actually, your chance of success is totally up to you. That's what's unique about this disease. And if you come to a 12-step program and work your steps, get a sponsor, a network, a homegroup, go to meetings, and chase recovery with the same energy that you used to have to chase drugs with, your chances of success are 100%!
KJ
KJ
On The Road to Recovery!
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 191
Hi Scared,
I think the main thing is, you HAVE to want to stop.
You HAVE to want your life back.
I have been taking them same thing give or take for almost two years.
Later today will be my day 5 with out pills c/t. IIt was tough. Kinda like the flu for the first few days, but I keep myself busy, and took the advice of all these fine people on this website, and I made it through. The worst part is over now, and guess what???
My days are not spent thinking about pills....
I have extra money.....
I can actually feel things, and I am not numb anymore....
It is worth it and you can do it.
Which ever way you choose, just remember if you get on another drug, you will eventually have to come off of that also, and there will be withdrawls from that too. I was told that the w/d were harder with the other stuff.
Good Luck and you can do it!!!
I think the main thing is, you HAVE to want to stop.
You HAVE to want your life back.
I have been taking them same thing give or take for almost two years.
Later today will be my day 5 with out pills c/t. IIt was tough. Kinda like the flu for the first few days, but I keep myself busy, and took the advice of all these fine people on this website, and I made it through. The worst part is over now, and guess what???
My days are not spent thinking about pills....
I have extra money.....
I can actually feel things, and I am not numb anymore....
It is worth it and you can do it.
Which ever way you choose, just remember if you get on another drug, you will eventually have to come off of that also, and there will be withdrawls from that too. I was told that the w/d were harder with the other stuff.
Good Luck and you can do it!!!
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: canada
Posts: 167
Wow, day five, that is awsome, good job, so what was it like, how did you keep busy with all of the wd, were you sick? I thought it totally wiped a person out with real bad flu symptoms and fever, the runs, no sleep ect. I still did not stop taking the pills yet, just getting myself ready sort of speak, and kicking myself in the but all the time for ever starting these things, i hate what they have done to me at my own fault i know, but i stilll hate them. I feel a lot more energy since i stopped taking the percocet that contains the tylenon and switching to the 5mg oxy immidiate release which would be the same as percocet without the tylenol, I think the tylenol was affecting my liver enzymes and making me feel wiped out, now that the tylenol is out of my system, i feel better and only have the oxy to quit, which will be the worst one i know, too bad the oxy is not as simple as stopping the tylenol, haha
like i said I am going to a methadone session on tues afternoon to see what its about and to ask questions about suboxone therapy, the woman at the detox said i did not look like the typical abuser and since i only use 60-70mg a day that i should be an easy canditate to help out, she said most use 200-500 mg a day or take betwiin 25-50 percocet per day, wow that is alot. I also have an appt with my family dr next week to see if i can get something tto ease the anxiety with the withdrawls....wish me luck because it will happen one way or the other very soon....
like i said I am going to a methadone session on tues afternoon to see what its about and to ask questions about suboxone therapy, the woman at the detox said i did not look like the typical abuser and since i only use 60-70mg a day that i should be an easy canditate to help out, she said most use 200-500 mg a day or take betwiin 25-50 percocet per day, wow that is alot. I also have an appt with my family dr next week to see if i can get something tto ease the anxiety with the withdrawls....wish me luck because it will happen one way or the other very soon....
Member
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Colorado Springs, CO
Posts: 2,391
I remember being more scared of going the way I was than I was of actually getting off of the meds and that was my stepping off point. I was scared of going one more day numb. I needed rehab and drug replacement therapy and a lot of AA/NA meetings.
My thoughts are with you.
My thoughts are with you.
Member
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: New York
Posts: 775
Dude PLEASE DONT GET INTO THE METHADONE RAT TRAP.I know the addict in you is saying mmm mmm mmm methadone sounds like what the Dr ordered.Take it from someone who knows its a good medication for an sever opiate addict ie. years of herion or other opiates from what I have read you are only on 14 perc's a day for not a long time .Suboxone is maybe a better medication for you.Ten days on and off I am not a Dr and neither are anyone else here you need to talk with an addictionoligist.Just think long and hard before you go for methadone Its a hard core medication and very dangerous.Take your time and research everything remember medical Dr. medicate you are your own best advocate.Be well good luck in your soberiety your worth it
T
T
Member
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: florida
Posts: 16
Hi Scared,
I wanted to share my thoughts since we share a similar abuse history. So this does not necessarily apply to those who started pain mgmt to address terminal illnesses, severe injury’s etc… but got started recreationally.
I will present another way to look at the withdrawal experience. There is no easy way; and sure there are some that seem less intense/painful than others. But, which one will increase your chances for success? Which one will make you look back in one week, one month, or one year and think “I am NEVER doing that again!”
No matter what, the withdrawal process is going to suck as the brain is very powerful. Once you quit, the brain is going to start demanding Perc’s and in order to get those, it will start to make us hurt. One thing to remember is that this withdrawal is a process. As such, it has a beginning & end and with each second that passes you just took one step closer to being off this junk forever. I believe we can all take the physical pain as there will be enough windows of relief to remind you that your goal is reachable. During the tougher times I try to think of being a POW and being tortured, or having a life-threatening illness. It helps me to put the situation in perspective. I think about the strength and courage that certain children who are born with afflictions have to muster every single day. Because as much as this withdrawal sucks, there are worse situations to be in and presumably tougher fights to fight.
To me, the emotional battle has been the toughest one. That’s the one that fights real dirty. That’s the one that calls us weak, useless, scared, and worthless. That’s the one that makes us cry and reminds us of all of our perceived failures and shortcomings. That’s because it’s wants to get high and knows how to hurt us. So be aware that the dirty fighting is part of the package and its only goal is to win but luckily that decision is ours.
As you already know, you will get very emotional. You have been stoned for awhile so try and embrace the rawness of peeling away some of the layers of your heart and crying…….in fact, let the waterworks fly. Cry about being the dumbass that made this decision in the first place. And while you’re at it, cry about you much you love your spouse, kids, girlfriend, buddies, sister….then write down some of those thoughts. DON’T show them what you wrote but maybe read it a few days later and then show them what they mean to you. Try and think about positive stuff like what you would do if one of them came to you with this problem……and how you’d help them and not judge them. Try and laugh, when you’re in the middle of a good cry and/or funk and look and feel like crap, get in front of a mirror and say with a fake smile “Hi there! I’m Dr. Blank and I’d like to tell you about the benefits of Pain Management! Call my 800# and you could look like this in a week!”
Pretty “soon” those passing seconds will become days passed and you’ll be laughing more than crying. Don’t worry too much about your upcoming sober reality and your ability to handle life without dope. Because that chore is going to be in good hands. That chore is in the hands of the person that your spouse fell for, your friends love, and kids look up to. I am going through this now (from Oxy150mg/day) and am now facing my old anxieties again and while addressing those will be a challenge, it certainly beats the option.
Please know, I am not making light of this dreadful situation. I’m just providing some additional mental ammo that you may or may not use. But while it is dreadful it’s not the end of the world and you can win.
Good luck.
I wanted to share my thoughts since we share a similar abuse history. So this does not necessarily apply to those who started pain mgmt to address terminal illnesses, severe injury’s etc… but got started recreationally.
I will present another way to look at the withdrawal experience. There is no easy way; and sure there are some that seem less intense/painful than others. But, which one will increase your chances for success? Which one will make you look back in one week, one month, or one year and think “I am NEVER doing that again!”
No matter what, the withdrawal process is going to suck as the brain is very powerful. Once you quit, the brain is going to start demanding Perc’s and in order to get those, it will start to make us hurt. One thing to remember is that this withdrawal is a process. As such, it has a beginning & end and with each second that passes you just took one step closer to being off this junk forever. I believe we can all take the physical pain as there will be enough windows of relief to remind you that your goal is reachable. During the tougher times I try to think of being a POW and being tortured, or having a life-threatening illness. It helps me to put the situation in perspective. I think about the strength and courage that certain children who are born with afflictions have to muster every single day. Because as much as this withdrawal sucks, there are worse situations to be in and presumably tougher fights to fight.
To me, the emotional battle has been the toughest one. That’s the one that fights real dirty. That’s the one that calls us weak, useless, scared, and worthless. That’s the one that makes us cry and reminds us of all of our perceived failures and shortcomings. That’s because it’s wants to get high and knows how to hurt us. So be aware that the dirty fighting is part of the package and its only goal is to win but luckily that decision is ours.
As you already know, you will get very emotional. You have been stoned for awhile so try and embrace the rawness of peeling away some of the layers of your heart and crying…….in fact, let the waterworks fly. Cry about being the dumbass that made this decision in the first place. And while you’re at it, cry about you much you love your spouse, kids, girlfriend, buddies, sister….then write down some of those thoughts. DON’T show them what you wrote but maybe read it a few days later and then show them what they mean to you. Try and think about positive stuff like what you would do if one of them came to you with this problem……and how you’d help them and not judge them. Try and laugh, when you’re in the middle of a good cry and/or funk and look and feel like crap, get in front of a mirror and say with a fake smile “Hi there! I’m Dr. Blank and I’d like to tell you about the benefits of Pain Management! Call my 800# and you could look like this in a week!”
Pretty “soon” those passing seconds will become days passed and you’ll be laughing more than crying. Don’t worry too much about your upcoming sober reality and your ability to handle life without dope. Because that chore is going to be in good hands. That chore is in the hands of the person that your spouse fell for, your friends love, and kids look up to. I am going through this now (from Oxy150mg/day) and am now facing my old anxieties again and while addressing those will be a challenge, it certainly beats the option.
Please know, I am not making light of this dreadful situation. I’m just providing some additional mental ammo that you may or may not use. But while it is dreadful it’s not the end of the world and you can win.
Good luck.
Go Browns!
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Charlotte, NC
Posts: 642
Hi I am currently detoxing myself. I felt the need to tell you that I am not clean, for whatever reason.
I am a mother of two little girls with a husband who makes a 6 figure salary. Point being, this can happen to anyone. Dont be ashamed, and be honest.
Before taking Suboxone or Methadone, get informed about the long term pros/cons. I took Suboxone (which i would recommend- go on their website). It works well and you can go to a certified physician, rather than a clinic and get 1 week--1 month prescriptions. The problem I had with it is that while I was on it (like I said it worked REALLY WELL) I didnt fix my mental addiction/issues so when I came off and didnt have a medication filling my opiate receptors I was right back on the pills. Also, methadone and Suboxone have NASTY withdrawals that last forever (was worse than pain pills- gotta taper really slow) so you have to know that going in and dont stay on it a minute longer than you have too. If I were you, I would get on the Sub for a few days but thats all, you HAVE to go through some withdrawals from the opiates. If its too easy to detox, what will stop you from doing it again? Go see an addictionologist or therapist and get moving on the mental part.
I am a mother of two little girls with a husband who makes a 6 figure salary. Point being, this can happen to anyone. Dont be ashamed, and be honest.
Before taking Suboxone or Methadone, get informed about the long term pros/cons. I took Suboxone (which i would recommend- go on their website). It works well and you can go to a certified physician, rather than a clinic and get 1 week--1 month prescriptions. The problem I had with it is that while I was on it (like I said it worked REALLY WELL) I didnt fix my mental addiction/issues so when I came off and didnt have a medication filling my opiate receptors I was right back on the pills. Also, methadone and Suboxone have NASTY withdrawals that last forever (was worse than pain pills- gotta taper really slow) so you have to know that going in and dont stay on it a minute longer than you have too. If I were you, I would get on the Sub for a few days but thats all, you HAVE to go through some withdrawals from the opiates. If its too easy to detox, what will stop you from doing it again? Go see an addictionologist or therapist and get moving on the mental part.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: canada
Posts: 167
Advice noted, why would suboxone or methadone be harder to stop than oxycodone, or oxycontin, I dont understand. They are both opiates are they not, I would think a taper off is a taper off no matter what opiate one is taking, but i could be wrong, is it due to the very long half life of both sub and meth. If so I could see the problem as you would instead of going into total withdrawls within 6 hours, you would slowly over 36 hours go into withdrawls which would drag it out
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: canada
Posts: 167
Hello everyone, today is the day I go to the information session on methadone therapy, im a little embsrassed to go but i must try to find a way to stop these pills as im to afraid of ct. I cant be down and out for two weeks or so, my buisness will suffer too much, I will also be enquiring about suboxone, but this drug is so new in this country might be hard to locate a dr who uses this type of treatment. Canada is always slow to incorporate new drugs. Wish me luck....i will need it...
Now with fewer opiates!
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Southern New Jersey, USA
Posts: 1,405
Originally Posted by scaredtostp
I cant be down and out for two weeks or so, my buisness will suffer too much
I'm not being harsh, just trying to confront you with the realities. You said nothing had suffered much yet. The key word there, trust me, is yet.
Member
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: NY
Posts: 51
Scared - Stop being scared and commit , It seems you are just trying to find an easy way out believe me the easier it is the faster you'll go back - You do not seem like you are fully committed and it seems like you are making excuses (DR hard to find, Business will suffer) You started a business that's hard to do , weren't you scared then , Most likely you committed and threw your self in without completely knowing what to expect but you did it. Same thing here except you know what to expect is easy, Just dont put another one in your mouth -Done- , 1 night that will be terrible and then 3-4 nights of the flu - Its not that bad- I started a business 7 years ago - Last year I had my worst year ever - I was also taking Oxy and Vics every 4 hours for 365 days - I stopped this year Jan and had the best February ever - Your business is suffering now. Stop now get rid of what you got and deal with it - Its just like 5 days of the flu -Whatever, but don't be scared of stopping - Be scared now that every day you are just mentally digging a deeper and deeper hole and mentally hooking your self in more by torturing yourself into thinking you need these pills to function - You dont need them and they are only hurting you - I hope I dont sound harsh - But a good kick in the as5 never hurt anybody, And I really want to see you stop - Stop its not that bad ,you are making it harder than it really is. -Just do it YOU CAN. If you are scared now of a few days of feeling sick , I know you will terrified if doctor tells you you have 6 months to live because your liver is shot.
Go Browns!
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Charlotte, NC
Posts: 642
Look I am no one to judge with the being scared of cold turkey, as I have been dragging this taper thing on for a week, but let me give you some advice. Get all your ducks in a row with your business. Plan to be out 5 days. Say you need extra help because your having a personal surgery or get extra stuff done in advance. Do research online about all the different OTC meds to take while detoxing. Get them. Also get movies and really good food. Plan this in advance, and start tapering. If you cant taper AT ALL with self control then you might as well get on methadone or suboxone because its alot worse once you quit. Then set a quit date (your "surgery" date, then you are forced to actually go through with it). Just do it, you wont die. Remember you have to go through this to remember how bad it is or else you will relaps.
If you absolutely must, get Suboxone or Subutex (wont be easy or cheap, probably have to have a certified dr in canada too) and use it for 4 days and a really low dose. You will proabbly still have withdrawals.
Im not a doctor and I dont play one on TV but thats my advice.
If you absolutely must, get Suboxone or Subutex (wont be easy or cheap, probably have to have a certified dr in canada too) and use it for 4 days and a really low dose. You will proabbly still have withdrawals.
Im not a doctor and I dont play one on TV but thats my advice.
Disposable Hero
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Being, ME
Posts: 3,758
Hopefully, you will decide to do what is best for your spiritual condition.
i know from personal experience that i often tried to stop the damage i was doing by using things outside of me to feel better about myself. i used to think that if i can just distract myself from the pain long enough it won't be there. Ah, the ignorant illusion of insanity. The results were; it worked less and less, i used more and more, and eventually i lost the power to do anything about it. i was trapped in a self perpetuating cycle of pain and all the drugs i could get my hands on didn't take it away. But hey, maybe it'll be different for you...
Thank God, thank NA, and thank my sponsor for the reintroduction to reality i so desperatly needed .
i know from personal experience that i often tried to stop the damage i was doing by using things outside of me to feel better about myself. i used to think that if i can just distract myself from the pain long enough it won't be there. Ah, the ignorant illusion of insanity. The results were; it worked less and less, i used more and more, and eventually i lost the power to do anything about it. i was trapped in a self perpetuating cycle of pain and all the drugs i could get my hands on didn't take it away. But hey, maybe it'll be different for you...
Thank God, thank NA, and thank my sponsor for the reintroduction to reality i so desperatly needed .
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