Just got home from detox...

[phoenix71]

I just got home from a medical detox and am craving already. Before I went in I was taking 300 mg day of oxycodone/oxycontin mix and drinking heavily on top of it, with the occassional hit off a joint. I am now on Suboxone but came home to my reality and am jonesing for anything -a beer a joint whatever. I do have a couple of xanax but holidng off for when I REALLY need them. The really good bottle of wine I am saving for a bday present for a friend is looking really good too. I won't drink it but I can't get it out of the house right now either.

Essentially I am alone, exhausted, scared and pissed off. All of the things that I am supposed to do to distract myself remind me of using. Evenbasic things like housecleaning. I always used to give myself energy. How do Iget around this?

For the record I am NOT a beleiver or fan of NA/AA, but I do plan to go to a meeting if I have to- just to fill my time. However I don't see this as my solution. I need other answers. I am aware of my natural insticnt to self sabatoge but am also aware of my limitations.

I started to write a book here about my story - but the story can come later. This is my second go around with this so I have a basic understanding - but realized I just need some comfort at the moment. PLEASE REMIND ME why I am doing this!!

My intent is to find tools and support - I hope to use this board and/or others to help me.

Thank you.

[bval]

Welcome to SR.com my friend.

I have a question ... what was the medical detox for, if you are now on suboxone? Most people just switch over to the stuff, at home. That's what I did as well, off a similar sized oxy habit. Just a little confused what the purpose of this detox was?

And also, for the record, when I switched to subs, I quit doing any hard drugs (speed was a problem as well for me, and of course oxys), but I didn't completely give up the occasional couple beers or glasses of wine, or hits off a joint, until I actually got off the subs and got completely clean.

My sitch may have been a little different, as I'm not an alcoholic, and really hadn't been drinking or smoking pot much in the prior few years I'd been on oxys, but I just didn't really see a big problem with the occasional indulgence in those two drugs, seeing as how I was on subs anyway ...

Not trying to encourage you to backslide or anything, just telling you what my attitude was at the time ...

[dgillz]

Do you have a reason for rejecting AA/NA? Did you try it before and not like it? Can you elaborate on your experiences with AA/NA?

There are other programs out there, I believe there is a sticky that covers them.

In any case please find a group of some sort, in my case I found I could not do this alone.

[phoenix71]

Thanks for your replies, it helps to know people are out there!!!

I chose detox for several reasons 1) my use of opiates was so high it was recommended to me; 2) my drinking was getting out of control; 3) to get me thru those 24 hours of withdrawal before I could take Suboxne. From experience those 24 hours are horrible and always broke my will to not use. To take an analogy from another board "Bad Angel" would always pipe up and convince me to use just so I didn't feel that way. Detox was a way to give "Good Angel" the upper hand to get past that point. And lastly 5) I wanted a clean break, a moment in time where I could say I AM DONE!!!.

Believe me I have already had the thought "well since I am on Suboxone it doesn't matter if I have a drink." But that drink will keep that neural pathway open and eventually lead me back to opiates. Suboxone used properly is not an exception to the going sober gig, just a way to get there. ( I don't know if that makes sense.)

As far as the AA/NA programs, yes I have had experience from all sides of the table, both as a user and as a co-dependent.

I am an agnostic, and though everyone says you don't have to believe - really all of the literature and all of the meetings underlie that. (EXAMPLE: Big Book Chapter 4 " ..you may be suffering from an illness that only a spiritual experience will conquer".) Yes I understand it is belief in a power greater than myself, and that could be the light switch or a dog, but the emphasis is undeniably on "God" as is understood by the Christian world.

Additionally so many people claim that it is not a "cult" (for lack of a better term) but then claim it is the ONLY way, well, it smacks of "cult" to me. (sadly I have first hand experience with a real cult too).

I also don't believe in powerlessness. I am NOT powerless, ultimately ONLY I can get power over this. Powerlessness takes the accountability out of my hands and I believe that makes relapse more likely. That doesn't mean I don't need and want help, I believe the only way to do this is with support and education, even if it DOES come from an AA/NA meeting.

Also, to me, the concept of one day at a time allows for failure. It gives you an option to use tomorrow. It may simply be sleight of hands, but that is how I feel. However even studies by AA show that only 5% of people make it thru a year. The failure rate of this program is astronomical.

And lastly the format does not work for me. I am a person who needs the back and forth conversation, discourse with others, direct advice and understanding. Yes it is helpful to know others are in the same boat, that I am not alone, but it is not how I learn best.

I DO believe the 12-steps themselves are overall a good tool for anyone as it helps you put things in perspective in many ways.

This being said, I am not trying to change anyones mind, or bash your belief by any stretch of the imagination. You asked why so I wanted you to know it is not a decision I have made lightly, I have put a lot of thought into it. IF IT WORKS FOR YOU THEN WORK IT!!! (Isn't that how it is said?)

As far as other meetings - there really aren;t many. I live in Seattle WA and there is only ONE SMART meeting in the whole area. It amazes me sometimes the lack of alternatives. Sometimes I wonder if my calling is to find more alternatives for people at large but then I think I don't really want to spend my whole life thinking about addiction.

I apologize if this comes off as being defensive. I suppose some of it is -I am in the first stages of this process after all - but text can give a wrong impression.

Wow, I just rambled for quite a while. Thanks for listening (err... reading)

[In a Tailspin]

Originally Posted by phoenix71

I also don't believe in powerlessness. I am NOT powerless, ultimately ONLY I can get power over this. Powerlessness takes the accountability out of my hands and I believe that makes relapse more likely.

I'm a codie with an abf who just came off of subs in the last week. His DOC also Oxy. I have been going to regualr Alanon meetings to deal with my codie-ness. (he's says I'm codie because I'm a nurse.........I say maybe I became a nurse I'm codie!!)

Anyways, I just wanted to twist your thinking a little about the powerlessness thing. Don't think of it as powerless = weak, and therefore unable to take charge of your life. True, you can't "control" your drug and alcohol use.........as in, you use a little, you lose all "control" and before you know it life is all f'ed up again. Think of it like this: the most powerful control you have is to stay away from it........to "just say NO" (wow.....pardon the pun!!). You have all the power in the world - until you choose to give it to the drugs/alcohol.

My abf had a major relapse due to chronic pain that led to surgery.......(can't tell you how fun that was!!) but at first he kept saying that he wanted to "learn how to control" his meds and dosing.........until 2 weeks of meds were gone in two days. He finally realized that the only "control" he had was to admit he had none. I hope this makes sense.........like you said......typing is so hard. I'm a much better talker than typer.

You might also want to talk to your subs MD about your dosage if your cravings are still so bad. My abf had minimal to no cravings, even in the beginning of sub therapy - - just a thought. Best of luck to you, and congratulations on starting on the journey!!

[Liberty47]

Yes, I continued to crave opiates hard core until I got up to 14 mg of Subs- some people just need higher maintenance doses. I've found that I get much more out of NA personally- I was never the biggest fan of 12-step programs either- when I am not bowed by the cravings.

[ccgirl]

Phoenix, I have some good reasons for doing it. You won't spend your days fretting about when you're going to get your doc; you won't waste a lot of time looking for you doc; you won't live in fear that you're going to run out of your doc at a really bad time and lastly, you'll live a longer healthier life.

[phoenix71]

Thanks ccgirl! I am now faced with financial disaster due to my constant chase of my DOC to the point I don't know if I can even afford the Suboxone. I just hope every time I eat Ramen I remember why I am doing it.

[yeahgr8]

You have a tough road ahead of you IMO but one you can definitely get through and have a much better life.

You are absolutely right about AA to some extent and I can see why you feel like that. I've only been sober for almost 11 weeks now and am gloing to counselling twice a week, if i did not have her to talk to i would be in real trouble...you have to have some support. This site is amazing and you can spend hours on here, as i do talking and reading to people who understand what you are going through.

just back to AA for a sec, I am going to start going to meet people and also to get support and to be reminded, like you said in your first post,as to why i am doing this and to be kept reminded in the future. I am going to get out of the house, to go and sit somewhere with people in a similar situation to me. I will listen and take on baord what the individuals say and will get something from it even if it is, as i have said above, to remember why i am doing this! There will be people there with years of sobriety and there will be people coming in with no sobriety. I don't want to go though but it can only be a good thing for me? I don't underdtand the argument that it can't? Am i missing something? This is IMO.

I think AA is a useful tool for us and noone is going to insist you learn anything or even buy a copy of the Big Book, i have been to a few over the years and they seemed ok to me.

Just wanted to give you a different view, not change your mind:-)

[anvilhead]

gosh pheonix, it's a shame you aren't much into AA or NA cuz both are UBIQUITOUS here in the greater Seattle area...you can find a meeting almost any time of the day in multiple locations, AA halls, retreats, conferences and the like. tell ya what, worst case scenario maybe have a meeting list handy...if you get in a bad way you can go wrap yourself around a lousy cup of coffee and at least be in the atmosphere of other recovering addicts/alcoholics........

truly i'm not trying to recruit you, i just want you to have all the tools possible to build your recovery!!! that powerlessness thing is often a stumbling point for some...remember it doesn't say I am weak and pathetic and spineless....it just says when it comes to drugs i really suck at it! if it was simply a matter of will power, it would never have gotten out of hand in the first place, and ya wouldn't have needed to go seek outside help, ie medical detox, to get a clean start.

anyway, remember what ya went INTO detox for....to make that clean start. using now makes all the crap you went thru pretty pointless, AND expensive!! just do whatever it take today to NOT use......

[dgillz]

I thought you might be atheist or agnostic. I have heard of two groups, AAAA - atheists & agnostics in AA as well as "We Agnostics". One of these just has to be in Seattle. Its worth a look.

If fact, I just found it for you if you are interested:

Worldwide Agnostic A.A. Meetings

[phoenix71]

I appreciate the feedback about powerlessness. I understand the points made, and maybe it is just splitting hairs. I may not have power over the "disease" but I do have power in whether or not I chose to use.

As far as AA/NA - I am not saying it is a bad thing, it is just not the end-all be-all for me. And as I said I will go to meetings to fill my time if necessary, use it as part of my tool box, as I know it is important to keep busy and have support.

BTW In a Tailspin- I think many of us are born a co-dependent though there are other terms for it that aren't so negative. The one I prefer is HSP- a highly sensitive person (Google it). It just means I am compassionate and sensitive to other peoples needs. It is a good thing!!! And if you think about it all relationships have a co=dependency side to it, it just depends on how you frame it.