Barely a week later and surprise surprise

[Vintersemestre]

I need to say that I appreciate that most of you have been supportive or interested. I guess in the future I'll use better judgment as it regards to how certain people may be triggered by my posts. Thanks, all of you.

Besides the small handful of you who have been abusive and negative, that is.

[Liberty47]

You know, I mostly lurk, but I have to comment on this thread- I am APPALLED and DISGUSTED by all the judgementalism and sanctimonious comments posted above. Silly me, I guess I was naive in thinking that this was a forum where we attempted to support each other???? Why is it some hard for some people to understand that NA/AA does not work for everyone? Actually, Vinters post was not inappropriate at all- it only would have been in the 12-Step forums. Why is everyone so opposed to opiate maintenance programs? Are you all jealous or resentful or something? Sheesh, live and let live! I tried NA and while I got 9 months clean, I was miserable and thought of getting high every minute of those 9 months. All the praying, step-writing, basic text-thumping was useless against the cravings, sorry to burst ya'lls bubbles. I have been on Suboxone for 6 weeks and plan to stay on it forever. I am no longer imprisoned by cravings, I am living the full and productive life I was always meant to live. If you all want to call me a functioning junkie and "not really clean", go right ahead. "Living well is the best revenge." You have my full support, Vinter.

[Liberty47]

Oh, and there is one more thing I have to mention, even though perhaps this is for another thread- for those who think this thread might be "triggering" or "confusing" for addicts...

Many recovering addicts talk about being able to have a few drinks on here without any problems. I have seen SO MANY people go out and die following these sorts of folks advice in real life. When comments saying, "I'm a recovering addict, booze was never my thing, I have no problems having a few drinks a year" are perfectly acceptable on SR, how could Vinter's post be so horrible?

[EscapedOC]

Well.. I was under the impression we support each other with the goal of getting CLEAN from substances. Not maintaining a lifestyle of Substance Abuse. Substance Abuse is the forum name, right? And Personally I dont think anyone was Judgemental. I went through a lot of denial about my use before I got clean,I think all addicts might.. and If the suggestions are not for him, fine. Maybe someone else will read them and realize they are not alone and have felt the same was most addicts feel. I apologize if any of my post seemed judgemental, but I have been real careful about sharing MY experience only. I wish ALL of you find peace and happiness. I don't think you'd be on this site If you were not looking for it.

[Vintersemestre]

For the last time, I'm NOT ABUSING IT. The LEGALLY PRESCRIBED bottle says "2 X 40MG DAILY FOR PSYCHOSIS, DEPRESSION AND PAIN". And THAT'S THE AMOUNT THAT I INGEST. How is that abuse??

Why is that so hard for you to understand?? Also, please explain to me how Jules62 post is not sanctimonious and judgmental. He doesn't know ANYTHING about me, who I am, what my situation is, NOTHING. Yet he assumes he knows just how it is, how I'm exactly like every other addict and no one's experience could possibly be any different from his own. Is he a medical professional who has seen my SPECT scan?? Can he live inside my head and feel how I feel? Every single word of his post was abusive, self-righteous and downright mean. I could be wrong, but clearly a product of NA brainwashing.

I just want to say one more thing to you, Jules, as far as me not being "free" because I'm hooked on pills. Are diabetics who take insulin free? What about heart patients who need nitro patches, are they free? What happens to them if they don't take their medicine? THEY DIE, which is exactly where I was headed (by my own hand, no less) if I didn't get the treatment I needed. My blood-endorphin levels are virtually non-existant and without this medication I would be perpetually miserable for the rest of my life. If that means I'm a bad person in your eyes I don't really give a crap. Stay up on your high horse and look down on me if you want, I just hope you realize how much of a jerk it makes you look like.

[Vintersemestre]

Originally Posted by Liberty47

You know, I mostly lurk, but I have to comment on this thread- I am APPALLED and DISGUSTED by all the judgementalism and sanctimonious comments posted above. Silly me, I guess I was naive in thinking that this was a forum where we attempted to support each other???? Why is it some hard for some people to understand that NA/AA does not work for everyone? Actually, Vinters post was not inappropriate at all- it only would have been in the 12-Step forums. Why is everyone so opposed to opiate maintenance programs? Are you all jealous or resentful or something? Sheesh, live and let live! I tried NA and while I got 9 months clean, I was miserable and thought of getting high every minute of those 9 months. All the praying, step-writing, basic text-thumping was useless against the cravings, sorry to burst ya'lls bubbles. I have been on Suboxone for 6 weeks and plan to stay on it forever. I am no longer imprisoned by cravings, I am living the full and productive life I was always meant to live. If you all want to call me a functioning junkie and "not really clean", go right ahead. "Living well is the best revenge." You have my full support, Vinter.

Thanks. I'm glad I'm not the only person who noticed how disrespectful and disgusting it was. You should stay on suboxone for the rest of your life in my opinion. If you went nine months clean and didn't experience a moment's relief, then I doubt you ever would have. Some people can get completely clean and stay that way, some of us can't.

I refer back to "quality of life"... while the basic-text-thumping (I like that term, I'd like to borrow it if you don't mind) crowd attends meetings and focuses on a non-existant disease they claim to have for 20+ years, me and you will be working, having children and enjoying our lives.

Nuts to all who oppose me! NUTS I SAY! lol :P

[CRhymes]

I dunno Vinter, sounds like you are just trying to justify your use...

You are taking 80 mgs of oxycodone a day, for off-label usage. Sure, a doc might have prescribed it for you, but you seem very eager to list ALL the symptoms the OC helps, and ALL the other medications that don't work for you. I think maybe you are experiencing another drug honeymoon that will soon turn against you.

Any legitimate doctor or psych will NOT prescribe opioids for depression and psychosis. That's just how it goes.

[Vintersemestre]

The doctors I saw are the foremost opiate experts in the province and their clinic is strictly monitored by Health Canada and they have to explain every prescription they write, so you're wrong. How about you do a little research before you say things like that? It's not as uncommon a practice as you might think. Do I have to mention again that my SPECT scan showed almost non-exitant endorphin levels? Am I talking to a wall here?

Or maybe you're right. Maybe I should just keep trying more and more neuroleptics until I get tardive dyskenia and am disabled for the rest of my life, or maybe I should just go in for electro-shock treatment and lose all of my memory, or maybe I should just live the rest of my life in misery, like I had through the ages of eight through seventeen.

I'm listing my symptoms and what has and hasn't worked for the BENEFIT of people who suffer from neurosis and have been through all of modern psychiatry's medications and are at their wits end and possibly about to blow their brains out with a shotgun (like I was). Don't even pretend to know what my reasons or situation is.

[CRhymes]

Sounds like you have a lot of bottled-up anger dude. You really think oxycodone is the magic drug that you can take for the rest of your life? Well, it's not. You'll figure it out soon enough.

[Vintersemestre]

Yeah, it's only natural to get angry when people who aren't listening to a word you're saying accuse you of being something you're not.

For the record, friend, I have plenty of experience with oxycodone, I'm not naive at all. Explain to me how it is I took the same dosage for four years without ever developing a tolerance to its effects? Or am I still talking to a wall?

[Sugah]

Here's the concern, VS. You posted in October that you'd been abusing opiates for several months with less frequent/severe abuse prior to that. Now, you're on a prescribed dose, and you're reporting no problems with abuse. I say -- Good for you! If it's working, that's wonderful! I'd caution you, though. "To thine own self, be true." I have yet to meet an addict in the flesh who can take anything with abuse potential for maintenance. As frustrated as you've been with your mental health, I would hope you'd go back to the drawing board if this course of treatment begins to drag you down.

So, there's concern for you, but there's also concern for others who frequent this board. You're reporting your treatment to folks, the majority of whom cannot, as you have said you do, take a restrained dose of any med with abuse potential. Many who've not yet broken the psychological chains of addiction are often looking for any excuse to keep using. I got a phone call from a young woman night before last who's in that place. She's on her second self-inflicted broken bone so that doctors will keep prescribing for her.

I would ask you, as others have already (but you haven't seem to answer directly), if you're not an opiate addict, why are you flaunting your treatment to people who are here because they abuse drugs? What purpose does it serve? I do believe you deserve support as much as anyone, and I'm sure that there are places where you can find that support without disregarding the very dangerous consequences for others who might in desperation prove that they can be like you?

You've expressed your contempt for the 12 step recovery model, and I'm not going to persuade you to think differently about it. I will say this: it's taught me a lot about responsibility and consideration of how my actions affect other people. If you reject all else, including abstinence from all drugs, that's fine. If you're not an addict, perhaps you can't imagine the damaging influence what you share may have on others. I ask you to consider it now, or I ask a mod to look closely at this thread and make a decision as to its appropriateness in this forum.

Peace & Love,
Sugah

[Dee74]

Why is that so hard for you to understand?? Also, please explain to me how Jules62 post is not sanctimonious and judgmental. He doesn't know ANYTHING about me, who I am, what my situation is, NOTHING. Yet he assumes he knows just how it is, how I'm exactly like every other addict and no one's experience could possibly be any different from his own. Is he a medical professional who has seen my SPECT scan?? Can he live inside my head and feel how I feel? Every single word of his post was abusive, self-righteous and downright mean. I could be wrong, but clearly a product of NA brainwashing

.
psst....speaking of assumptions dude? he's a she.
LOL.

I didn't find anything abusive, self-righteous or downright mean in that post.

I'm finding you very defensive tho.

Like I said way back at the beginning - I'm not at all surprised a long term opiate user finds himself feeling 'normal' when reintroduced to opiates. That's not a medical marvel Vinter.

But, what you do to yourself is your business.

What gets me is like Sugah said, why are you bringing it here to people who are here because they abuse drugs?

I can see you've been working up a little bit of messianic zeal -

I'm listing my symptoms and what has and hasn't worked for the BENEFIT of people who suffer from neurosis and have been through all of modern psychiatry's medications and are at their wits end and possibly about to blow their brains out with a shotgun (like I was).

and my personal favorite

To not share my own experience would be the equivalent of keeping the cure for cancer to myself.

LOL actually, I think the opiates may be affecting you a little more than you think.

Step outside your little Vinter shaped sliver of the world and think about what you're promoting here, and who you're promoting it to.

D

[Vintersemestre]

Originally Posted by Dee74

.

psst....speaking of assumptions dude? he's a she.
LOL.

D

Heh, I never saw her post before and "Jules" is a male sort of name unless it's slang for Julia. My bad.

Originally Posted by Sugah

consider it now, or I ask a mod to look closely at this thread and make a decision as to its appropriateness in this forum.
Sugah

You know what, just forget it. I'll go to another forum.

I encourage you to go and run and tattle to the mods because some grown adults on these forums may not be able to control themselves. Tell them to delete the thread, or better yet, my entire account.

Thanks to everyone who's been intrigued, positive, or understanding or even critical without being abusive. The rest of you, get bent. I'm off to find a forum where my research and opinions will be treated with respect. If any of you still want to contact me, you'll figure out how to eventually.

See, that's how free societies work - when you don't like something, you leave. You don't tattle to the thought police to get it banned or removed.

[Liberty47]

CH, may I ask what your medical background is? You seem to think you are some sort of professional on neuropsychiatry. Have you read many studies pertaining to long term use of opiates, in particular oxycodone? What conclusions have you uncovered that have inspired your advice?

[Liberty47]

And once again, because no one answered my earlier question, how are people who come on here and claim to be in recovery despite continuing to drink sending any less of a dangerous message then V? Why are we so hostile to alternative methods of treatment? Perhaps many of those we've lost from this disease would still be alive had there not been such a serious stigma against opiate replacement therapy. Society stigmatizes us enough, a former junkie was no less of a junkie because he got clean through the 12-steps. Vinter, stick around, if we don't stay strong and speak up, we will never gain the respect and the stigma will continue. People who are on ORT ARE CLEAN, as much as anyone dependent on meetings to stay clean.

[ex D-Boy]

zzzzzzzzzzzz this thread is boring, repetitive and heading nowhere besides a flame battle... peter , doug where are you guys???

[emmer]

Is it so hard to understand what is approprieate and what is inappropriate on a
sober recovery forum ?

Opiates are dangerous sh!t man, some people end up in alleys shooting in there neck because all there viens are collapsed, some people o.d and die, are in prison for life,
some former members of SR are dead because of opiates.

Do you get the drift? !!

This is a recovery forum ...........recovery from meth,booze,pot and also(believe it or not OPIATES!)

Scads of us here have used opiates for nerves and have been royally f*cked over by the additive nature of them and again, some are DEAD!

Thats why it's inappropriate talk here on SR.

I dont care if V uses them for his mental health or if he dumps them in his gas tank for better mileage but what I and others care about is promoting there use here on a RECOVERY FORUM.

[lostbutterfly]

lol, Scotty - you weren't here for the Obama vs McCain thread!!! It was closed down, and somehow it got started up all over again. Went on and on!

Anyway, I promised myself I wouldn't come on here coz I thought it would trigger me, but I did anyway coz I could see loads of activity and couldn't bear to be left out.

And now Vinter's leaving (sobs).

[Liberty47]

Wow, you guys are truly nasty. I just don't understand why you all cannot understand the difference between abusing opiates and doctor-monitered opiate maintenance therapy. I can't believe you are laughing and being sarcastic about the fact that your hurtful words drove a member away. Geez.

[emmer]

Liberty47 ........ THIS IS A SOBER RECOVERY FORUM

Do you know how fast this thread would disappear on the AA forum if the doctor prescibed drug was beer?

Its where its being posted ........ geez!

Im not going to continue with this ......... its become pointless.

bye bye

[Morning Glory]

I'm closing the thread to let everyone calm down until Peter or Doug can take a look at it.

[Doug]

Originally Posted by Morning Glory

I'm closing the thread to let everyone calm down until Peter or Doug can take a look at it.

It's staying closed. Recovery (quitting then staying quit) from substances (and other things) is what we're about. Not how to use partially, with professional help, or on specific days. This can and will trigger some folks who really want to, and are trying to stop.

The Internet is loaded with message boards of all makes and models, and I'm certain there's at least one that better fits the "how to use with a doctors help" topic.

Any subsequent threads of this same nature will simply be removed.