Please Help, Soma Cold Turkey, Very Scared

[Liberty47]

Hi all, I'm a long time lurker, would introduce myself more and I apologize but I am so panicky right now I can barely type. I have been abusing up to 2100 mils of Soma a day since June- I don't want to say my sources but they are not from a doctor. I reached out to an addiction specialist who charged me $300 for the visit and told me I should start Suboxone due to my history of opiate addiction (I've been an addict for a long time.) She advised me how to taper the Somas, but told me that she wouldn't prescribe me any because it would be enabling my addiction and that I would just have to "use my resources that I've been using.) My "resources" have dried up and I will be cold turkeying it- she even agreed with me that it is probably I could have a seizure. I am so scared, I don't want to die, and I am so afraid another doctor will tell me the same thing. Please, does anyone have any suggestions? It seems that it borders on medical negligence what she is doing, I live in a small town and I have no where else to turn in my current panicky mind. Thanks and god bless.

[whiskerkissed]

Hi Liberty! Hang in there! Someone will be along with some answers. I don't have them, but I do know your fear. Just hang in there.

Do you have the option to go to a rehab center for a safe detox?

[Liberty47]

Thank you so much for the kind reply, WhisperKissed. If I absolutely have to I can do inpatient- but since the Suboxone is going to be so expensive, I am trying to look at that as a last resort since it would interfere with my work. I've kicked opiates cold turkey several times and painful as that may be, I knew I couldn't die from it- this scares me to death. I truly do want to taper off the Somas and I understand why docs are reluctant to prescribe to addicts, but its simply life threatening to go off Soma with no taper. If I had any sources left I would use them, but I have none. Thanks again

[whiskerkissed]

I sure understand the missing work thing. I wouldn't stop working but for a day going through w/d from opioides. Work would have paid for a rehab center. With you though...you're right. Somas are different and it sounds like your at your last resort point. Supplier's dried up, doc won't prescribe and you're facing cold turkey. It sounds like you're a little out of options, hun...

[Sugah]

At 350mg each, you're using 6 a day? A typical prescription is 3/day, so you're only at about double the recommended dosage. I've come off 20+ a day cold turkey many times in the past without a problem -- but that's not an endorsement or assurance that you'll have no problems. From what I remember, the worst of it for me was agitation after regular, heavy use and craving for the drug.

Although seizures are scary (I've had them, but never, to my knowledge, from Soma withdrawal), I haven't seen anything in my quick look around the web-med sites that indicate that Soma withdrawal can be fatal. If you can't go to detox, can you have someone stay with you in the event that you do have a seizure?

Having addressed that, I'm wondering why a professional would be suggesting an opiate agonist for a non-opiate addiction? I don't get that.

Peace & Love,
Sugah

[Liberty47]

Thanks, Sugah. I know we can't give medical advice on the boards, but people's ESH is just as valuable. My major concern is having to drive an hour to catch a flight to visit family on Sunday- having a seizure while driving would be bad. I may just take a cab, its my life after all. The specialist recommended Suboxone due to my history of abusing oxycodone and other opiates and having bad cravings- the reason why I got on the Somas is that my personal experience was that they blocked the cravings. Now I'm paying I guess

[sunflower1776]

Liberty
I am an opiate addict 20-40 15mg oxycodones daily for 2 years. I have been on suboxone for the last month and besides for a 'slip up' in the beginning have been doing pretty well. I think subs would be a good med for you to start using. I did go through detox at an inpatient center for 3 days but didn't know about subs at that point. You DO NOT have to go to a center to detox or for inpatient rehab. To start subs, you would stop taking your soma, and when you started mild-moderate withdrawals (according to the COWS scale), you would start the subs. Your doctor would tell you what dose to start at. Depending on your doctor, you would take the subs every 3-4hours as needed to control the cravings. Subs work by eliminating cravings and withdrawal symptoms. The subs block the opiate receptors in your brain. Anyway, you will hear a lot of negative things about subs and their withdrawal--however, go to NAABT.org an read the information on there. You will find tons of helpful information plus there are forums on there for suboxone users. That is my "home" group. I highly suggest looking into the suboxone--it really is safe for detoxing, eliminating withdrawals and controlling cravings. there is no withdrawal from subs if you taper CORRECTLY and the way the MD told you to. Do you have insurance? If not they do cost abou $300/month plus the cost of the suboxone certified doc. If you have insurance, they do cover the cost of the meds--onyl have to pay copay. As far as covering the doctor, that depends on your insurance company. I just wanted to give you the information so that you know a little bit more about it and can make an educated decision. It may be expensive but it is sooo worth it. Whatever you do, do NOT go the methadone route as it is a highly addictive drug. Suboxones are NOT addictive--they have a ceiling. In addition, the half-life is 37 hours so if you relapsed, basically you are wasting the drugs because the effects aren't felt. Now, since soma is not an opiate, I'm not sure how well it would work, but if your doctor is recommending it, I would definitely look into it a little.

I wish you the best of luck and feel free to ask any questions! Welcome to SR!!

P.S--also if you don't have insurance, there is a program that will give you suboxone free if your doctor meets certain requirements--jsut something to think about

[synergygroup]

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[sunflower1776]

Originally Posted by Sugah

At 350mg each, you're using 6 a day? A typical prescription is 3/day, so you're only at about double the recommended dosage. I've come off 20+ a day cold turkey many times in the past without a problem -- but that's not an endorsement or assurance that you'll have no problems. From what I remember, the worst of it for me was agitation after regular, heavy use and craving for the drug.

Although seizures are scary (I've had them, but never, to my knowledge, from Soma withdrawal), I haven't seen anything in my quick look around the web-med sites that indicate that Soma withdrawal can be fatal. If you can't go to detox, can you have someone stay with you in the event that you do have a seizure?

Having addressed that, I'm wondering why a professional would be suggesting an opiate agonist for a non-opiate addiction? I don't get that.

Peace & Love,
Sugah

Just wanted to respond to this---some doctors will prescribe meds in this way because of the way suboxone works--it's actually an opiate antagonist, not agonist. An opiate agonist is oxy, percs, vics, etc. Anyway, some people respond, for ways not yet truly understood, to suboxone for other addictions not opiate related. In addition, it is being seen that subs are helping people with depression; also, it does give some pain relief for those with chronic pain. There is no euphoric feelings from it--just an "it'll be ok" type feeling. Ask your doctor the reasons for wanting you to try it--whether it's because you have a h/o opiates, or if it has been shown to work in situations like yours as well.! good luck!

[bvaljalo]

Sunflower, I'm sorry if it seems like I'm being the hall-monitor on you today

But as I pointed out on the other thread:
a) Buprenorphine, the active ingredient is subutex/suboxone is a partial opioid agonist. It is not an opioid antagonist.
b) Buprenorphine can definitely by considered 'addictive' by the most common definition, which is to say, it does produce physical and psychological dependency, and has significant withdrawal effects.

The fact that bupe has a 'ceiling' does not in any way preclude it's also being 'addictive'. The two are not mutually exclusive, in other words.

Now, it's certainly not AS 'addictive' as full opioid agonists are, nor is it considered to have the same level of 'abuse potential' (and the ceiling effect does come into play as to why that is), nor does it tend to produce 'tolerance' to the same effect ... but make no mistake ... bupe *is* most definitely 'addictive', by the most common definition of the word ... again, it produces dependency, and then subsequent withdrawals when it's use is ceased.

I don't know much about soma's, but I do know they aren't opioids, and thus, it doesn't make a whole lotta sense to me to get onto subs for a soma problem. I don't know what the answer IS, here, either, unfortunately, but I'd be hard pressed to see why subs are the logical answer in this situation.

Good luck in any case, and keep posting!

[windysan]

A soma kick ain't that bad. Just try to get some rest and stay hydrated. Don't do drugs.

[Liberty47]

OK, sorry for any confusion- to clarify- I've binged/been hooked on Oxycontin/Percocets for years. Not proud of that, but it is what it is. Was clean for nine months through NA, last November I was walking my dogs, who saw a cat, who subsequently dragged me down and I face planted on the concrete. I felt sorry for myself at the ER and when the doc prescribed a bottle of Lortab it was on- I didn't call my sponser, certainly didn't take the tabs as recommended, and for the past year its a series of binges and attempts to get clean. Let that be a cautionary tale for any addict taking pain meds. Since I've been through hellish opiate withdrawel several times, I ended up getting hooked on Somas instead. Not at all afraid of any pain considering what I've been through, just very scared about the seizure and subsequent death potential. I'm starting subs since opiates were by far my number one, in fact if I could stop taking the soma cold turkey perfectly safely I would.

[windysan]

Wait, you're off of all opiates and you want to start Sub to get off of the Somas?

[Opiateaddict]

good luck. cold turkey hurts i have done it a couple times. stay strong and remeber that everyday ur sick is one day closer to being healthy.

[Liberty47]

Thank you opiate addict. Well, I guess the confusion brings up an interesting point. Apparantly, Suboxone is no longer strictly for detoxification purposes, it is also now considered a relapse prevention tool. I have had horrible opiate cravings from the day I quit- nothing was more frustrating then people telling me in NA the cravings were from "working a bad program." My psychiatrist feels that my chronic history of relapse on opiates makes me a good candidate for a 20-month Suboxone treatment. (Again, my history is long with addiction.) But, obviously I need to get off the Soma first, and my original point is that she won't taper me off the Soma, I am being forced to use my "resources" or go cold turkey.

[windysan]

Originally Posted by Liberty47

Thank you opiate addict. Well, I guess the confusion brings up an interesting point. Apparantly, Suboxone is no longer strictly for detoxification purposes, it is also now considered a relapse prevention tool. I have had horrible opiate cravings from the day I quit- nothing was more frustrating then people telling me in NA the cravings were from "working a bad program." My psychiatrist feels that my chronic history of relapse on opiates makes me a good candidate for a 20-month Suboxone treatment. (Again, my history is long with addiction.) But, obviously I need to get off the Soma first, and my original point is that she won't taper me off the Soma, I am being forced to use my "resources" or go cold turkey.

I'd find another doctor.

[Lily]

Welcome to the boards! I too used to abuse Soma and opiates. I went off both of them by myself. I was taking 15 of the 350's per day of soma. I never had a seizure and while they were fun for a season, I was glad to get off them cuz they made me sooo freakin' hungry! LOL

As far as the sub, I would really try to stay away from that if at all possible. I would hate for you to have to replace one for another. I know it helps by blocking the opiate high, but I thought a lot of ppl used it to avoid withdrawal? I have gone thru withdrawal many times. It sucks, but it is doable as you know.

Go back to NA too! It is very helpful as you know. Blessings, Sheila

[sunflower1776]

Originally Posted by bvaljalo

Sunflower, I'm sorry if it seems like I'm being the hall-monitor on you today

But as I pointed out on the other thread:
a) Buprenorphine, the active ingredient is subutex/suboxone is a partial opioid agonist. It is not an opioid antagonist.
b) Buprenorphine can definitely by considered 'addictive' by the most common definition, which is to say, it does produce physical and psychological dependency, and has significant withdrawal effects.

The fact that bupe has a 'ceiling' does not in any way preclude it's also being 'addictive'. The two are not mutually exclusive, in other words.

Now, it's certainly not AS 'addictive' as full opioid agonists are, nor is it considered to have the same level of 'abuse potential' (and the ceiling effect does come into play as to why that is), nor does it tend to produce 'tolerance' to the same effect ... but make no mistake ... bupe *is* most definitely 'addictive', by the most common definition of the word ... again, it produces dependency, and then subsequent withdrawals when it's use is ceased.

I don't know much about soma's, but I do know they aren't opioids, and thus, it doesn't make a whole lotta sense to me to get onto subs for a soma problem. I don't know what the answer IS, here, either, unfortunately, but I'd be hard pressed to see why subs are the logical answer in this situation.

Good luck in any case, and keep posting!

We all have our own thoughts on whether subs are addictive or not. There are arguments in all directions on this one. I believe the psychological addiction could exist for those who are 'afraid' of getting off of them for fear of relapsing. But, Subs are only a TOOL--they are not a magic pill nor will they cure you of anything. They will make you feel better if you use them correctly and follow a plan. As for the physical addiction--yes that happens with people as well; however, as I stated in my post, if tapering is done correctly, you won't have withdrawals, or at least not serious withdrawals. Everyone is different. Some people believe its a magic pill and will make them better without having to try then they decide to jump and end up with horrendus withdrawals because they didn't taper at all--you plain and simple can't just decide to stop using subs and do it cold turkey--actually I guess you can but you might feel like crap--like you would with an opiate withdrawal.

A lot of people say that by taking subs you are substituting one drug for another. I thought the same way until I got on it and got educated about it (though I've had to be corrected a few times hehe ) I do know what I'm talking about as does BV--he and I just see a few things a little differently (i.e. the addictive nature). Some people say we are using subs as a crutch--well hell! As someone on another site said, I'd rather use a cruth than be in a wheelchair! If this is something that will help keep me from using, I'll do it. But, I am also seeing a therapist weekly, seeing my sub doctor weekly and starting 2 support groups--one for depression/bipolar and one for addicts. I am taking the additional steps needed.

Thanks for clarifying Liberty about why the doctor wants you to start subs. I knew it couldn't be for the soma, ,unless like I said before there was another use I wasn't aware of.

Lily--yes subs help people avoid withdrawals. But is also eliminates (almost totally) cravings--those cravings can go on for weeks, month, years. Subs keep the cravings at bay. There are guidelines for people taking subs you aren't in active addiction with opiates but who do have cravings. at that point it's not about the withdrawal, it's about the not starting again.

liberty--if NA worked for you, please go back! I wish you luck and you're in my thoughts. Make whatever the best decision is for you. You know for yourself that you've had relapses--do whatever you think will work for you to break the addictive cycle. I can't say much (though I seem to be doing that) because I did start them and then relapsed, but my head wasn't in the right place. To be honest, I'm still going through cravings occasionally--actually they are more urges than cravings. Please just keep us updated!!

[windysan]

I don't see using sub to get off of soma as making much sense.

[Liberty47]

Thanks Lily and Sunflower. Windy, dude, I don't want to sound rude or anything, but this is at least the third time I've tried to explain it to you- I'm not taking subs to get off Soma, I'm taking them to help me curb the cravings and repair the brain damage caused by a long-standing OPIATE addiction. Yes I was messing around with Soma, but OPIATES are my number one drug of choice.

[windysan]

I guess I can't really grasp why you'd want to get on the sub if you've already kicked opiates. If your cravings are that bad I guess I see your reasoning. I just don't really get it. I was sick as a dog the times I kicked and I never really had cravings too bad after kicking. I guess I was just so totally disgusted with dope and myself. I ain't trying to put you down, mang, just trying to understand is all. If you're craving bad and about to crack then maybe sub will help. Til then don't do dope, mmmkay?

[Liberty47]

Thanks, WindySan I've had some horrible bottoms, including an OD and three rehabs, and I am completely disgusted with the things opiates have driven me to do. Yet I continue to think about getting high constantly- at least 95 percent of my waking day. Just as in abusive relationships, I continue to return to opiates no matter how badly I get beat up. I want to live and live powerfully, and I am willing to explore any and all avenues that might help me do so.

[applesncream]

My advise is to not get on any more meds that you will sooner or definately most likely later have to get off and withdrawl from. I have been clean from opiates for almost 2 years, I did it in jail. I had been addicted for 6 years and 5 of those years I was on Methadone. Being a slave is a horrible way to live. Being free is a better way to live. You should get spiritually centered and ask for help as much as possible. I had a real hard time staying clean. Like you I was in abusive relationships, and mostly I seemed like an accident waiting to happen. Now my life is so much better. I depend on my higher power in times of pain, and have complete faith in Miracles. LIFE is worth it!!

[sunflower1776]

Originally Posted by applesncream

My advise is to not get on any more meds that you will sooner or definately most likely later have to get off and withdrawl from. I have been clean from opiates for almost 2 years, I did it in jail. I had been addicted for 6 years and 5 of those years I was on Methadone. Being a slave is a horrible way to live. Being free is a better way to live. You should get spiritually centered and ask for help as much as possible. I had a real hard time staying clean. Like you I was in abusive relationships, and mostly I seemed like an accident waiting to happen. Now my life is so much better. I depend on my higher power in times of pain, and have complete faith in Miracles. LIFE is worth it!!

Congratulations on your 2 years! I believe if one is going to choose to be on a medication to help with the cravings, then sub is the better option than methadone. Methadone users can become addicted to it like they would their doc, and much more addicted than they would be to subs (if they became addicted in any way at all) Actually quite a few meth users are transitioning to subs for that reason. Of course if you think you can handle staying off of opiates without any medication then great! But for some people they cannot, and since there is something out there to use to help, they should use it. Getting in touch with your 'higher power' is great for people who can do that, but there are some of us who have a hard time doing that for whatever reason. I personally am still trying to learn about my higher power, but I am working on it. Most importantly, though, is getting and staying clean--however you choose to do this doesn't matter as long as you start to recover and make your life the best it can be--better than it was before this damn addiction.