What's the deal with Suboxone? Is it good or bad? - SoberRecovery : Alcoholism Drug Addiction Help and Information

Callie · 07-01-2008, 04:47 PM

My AH is requesting this info and I said I'd ask here. I've heard good and bad things about it. Can someone explain their experiences? Is it true that you become addicted to that too? AH has taken Sub before, but stopped "because I didn't do anything anyway."

Is it an antidepressant as well??

One of the IOP rehab's will rx it, but does not like the idea of it at all. But from what I'm hearing on here it's the opposite. Can someone enlighten me?? Also, what is it considered? Is it an opiate, opiod or is it something that they could or would test for in a urine test?

***marle*** · 07-01-2008, 05:01 PM

My daughter used heroin for over two years and is currently in a halfway house. When she was in rehab she started on suboxone. She had no withdrawals and has no cravings. She absolutely knows that she still needs to work a program and does everything that she needs to do to continue to get better. Suboxone is addictive and has it own withdrawals, but it allows the addict to function and have the time to get their lives back. My daughter will probably stay on it for a year due to the length of her addiction and the amount that she used. She comes home on weekends and it is like night and day. I feel like I have my daughter back. Hugs, Marle
p.s. The rehab she was in is one of the top ones in the country and they support suboxone treatment. They have a separate program just for opiate addiction.

Callie · 07-01-2008, 05:08 PM

Thanks Marle -

Another question that I have is what does suboxone actually do? I know it blocks opiates - right? Does it also give you a high? I have a feeling that AH took it the first time around thinking that it would give him that get up and go that opiates/oids do to him. Also, how long does one usually stay on sub? Weeks, months years??

butterflylover · 07-01-2008, 05:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Callie

My AH is requesting this info and I said I'd ask here. I've heard good and bad things about it. Can someone explain their experiences? Is it true that you become addicted to that too? AH has taken Sub before, but stopped "because I didn't do anything anyway."

Is it an antidepressant as well??

One of the IOP rehab's will rx it, but does not like the idea of it at all. But from what I'm hearing on here it's the opposite. Can someone enlighten me?? Also, what is it considered? Is it an opiate, opiod or is it something that they could or would test for in a urine test?

Hi Callie! I just started Sub on 6/19 for my Lortab dependency. Since, my first dose I've had no w/ds or cravings. It's given me a 'normal' life back. The first time you take it you might get a slight buzz but that goes away. It has a ceiling effect. Meaning you can't get a buzz by taking more than prescribed. I'm sure bvalajo will be along to help you. He's great at explaining this drug. I hope I helped in some way. Best of luck!

ShutupScott · 07-01-2008, 05:34 PM

im lowering my dose of subs right now, it helped a lot, the withdrawal is really uncomfortable for me (only because im doing a rapid taper, against my doctors advice, but i just want to be off of them without a long taper because i feel judged by some people in recovery for being on them)

exjunky · 07-01-2008, 05:35 PM

It saved my life.

It's hard to explain in a few words, but basically it satisfies the physical urge to use opiates but it doesn't make you high like methadone or other drugs would. So you deal with sobriety in the early stages of your detox but you don't have to deal with the intense pains of opiate withdrawals.

Plus I am fairly certain that it's a harmless drug, at least for those already opiate dependent.

Callie · 07-01-2008, 05:40 PM

I'm not entirely sure WHAT he's w/ding from as he's lied about alot. I know he's WAS addicted to oxy in the past, but he claims it's sporadic oxy and mainly percocet. So are you saying if it's percocet only he may as well just get through the w/d and skip the sub?

BTW - ShutupScott - you are a cutie patootie and I'm so glad you're getting yourself clean. You are VERY young and you've got alot of life ahead of you. Live it - don't poison yourself and those around you with drugs. My AH started his on and off addiction (unbeknownst to me) a few years earlier than you and he's now 38. He's done some awful things in the name of addiction. He's led a very misleading,deceiving and miserable life. He's caused me immense pain. We've been together since we were 17. Please stick with it and get yourself right. This life is too short for the misery that addiction causes not only the addict, but the ones who love the addict as well.

ShutupScott · 07-01-2008, 05:43 PM

i edited my post, because i wasn't thinking fully through when i pressed enter.. subs will work just as fine for any opiate it just depends on the length and amount used, as to it being a better option or not over just going to a detox center without using it

Flatts4Ever · 07-01-2008, 07:40 PM

I had kinda the same questions about the Sub's....Thanks for asking those questions....I have 1 more question to whoever might be able to answer it.....I have been taking a quarter of a 8 milligram Sub for the past 8 days....what kind of withdrawls can I expect when I stop taking them?? A friend of mine gave me some of hers (i know she wasnt suppose to but she did) to help with my withdrawl.....So now I am wondering what I can expect when those are gone?? Am I gonna have the same kind of withdrawls as I did when I stopped taking the pain pills??? Any info would be greatly apperciated!!!!

ShutupScott · 07-01-2008, 08:48 PM

well, im going through withdrawal from subs right now, it's pretty much all the same as opiate withdrawal just not as bad, a bit sweaty, anxious, can't sleep, a bit sore.. yawning a lot, tired, runny nose.. but if you taper down how the doctor tells you to then it might not be as bad, but i know for a fact that this isn't as bad as heroin withdrawal was, but it's still something that i do not in any way enjoy

bvaljalo · 07-01-2008, 08:59 PM

Man, I've talked about this SO MANY TIMES, including to some of you asking questions here and now.

Callie ... again ... percocet and oxys are THE SAME DRUG.

Here:
Suboxone.com - Understanding Opioid Dependence

Poke around, lots of good info there.

Here's the two minute version: buprenorphine is an long-acting partial opioid-agonist drug used to treat opioid-dependent patients. It strongly binds to the body's opioid receptors (thus preventing withdrawals), even more strongly than full-agonist opioids/opiates (such as heroin, oxycodone, etc, thus rendering these drugs useless when taken while on bupe) but it doesn't activate the receptors very much (hence the 'partial' part) so it doesn't create any noticeable 'high'. You very much feel 'normal' while you're on it. It does act as an anti-depressant, yes.

So, bottom-line, it's an opioid, so YES there are withdrawals from it. People stay on it for wildly varying lengths of time. From a week to years. Just as with any opioid/opiate (the distinction between these terms is academic, btw), the LESS of it you have been taking recently when you QUIT, the LESS your withdrawals will be. The withdrawals from it tend to be considerably milder than those from full-agonist opioids, but they also tend to linger in a mild form for a bit longer.

bvaljalo · 07-01-2008, 09:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flatts4Ever

I had kinda the same questions about the Sub's....Thanks for asking those questions....I have 1 more question to whoever might be able to answer it.....I have been taking a quarter of a 8 milligram Sub for the past 8 days....what kind of withdrawls can I expect when I stop taking them?? A friend of mine gave me some of hers (i know she wasnt suppose to but she did) to help with my withdrawl.....So now I am wondering what I can expect when those are gone?? Am I gonna have the same kind of withdrawls as I did when I stopped taking the pain pills??? Any info would be greatly apperciated!!!!

Wait, why did you even have w/d's getting off the pain pills if you had suboxone?

Getting off of two mg's a day taken for a short period of time after a period of active addiction is not going to be too terribly different the w/d's you would have had if you'd never taken them. With a lot of luck, you'll maybe have it 30% milder than you would otherwise have. But you'll be mighty glad for even that small respite, I'm pretty sure...

How much/what/how long are we talking about here, in terms of your usage?

Puddy · 07-02-2008, 08:11 AM

I was on Suboxone for 6 months. I was told it was perfect for my prescription pain medicine addiction. I went off Sub in April and I am still in severe post-acute withdrawal. No energy coupled with massive waves of depression. And - even after you've been off a while your addiction and cravings for opiates come back, so you're just going to have to go through the day-to-day recovery of staying clean from opiates anyways.

I was in acute w/d's for 5 weeks, where I wanted to kill myself every single day. This is the truth.

I can see Sub for one week only to detox off of opiates (heroin or prescription), but anything longer than that you are setting yourself up for some serious misery.

Check www . heroin-detox . com under the Buprenorphine/Suboxone section and you will find a community of survivors from this poison. Please stay away from this drug.

bvaljalo · 07-02-2008, 08:59 AM

Puddy:

I'm sorry you're suffering bud. How much dope were you on originally, how long, and how much bupe were you taking when you quit taking it?

Just as with any opiate, you really have to wean your way down to a low dose before you get off of it, otherwise, yeah, it's friggin miserable.

My experience was totally different from yours. When I stepped off (after 7 months on bupe, preceded by 3+ years of sniffing at least 240mg of oxycontin EVERY DAY) I was at 2mg/day. More than I recommend, btw, if I had a chance to do it again I'd be wanting to get down to about .5mg/day or even every other day. Anyways, I was pretty miserable for about 96 hours, and after that, I had some lingering w/d symptoms that lasted about a month, nothing I couldn't handle, esp. with the help of some basic meds from my bupe doctor (clonidine, neurontin, ambien to be precise). On day 11 off of bupe I was 40ft from the stage at a VERY loud Roger Waters concert, rocking out to Pink Floyd tunes with people toking up and drinking all around me (both of which I always *loved* to do at concerts), but I stayed sober, and LOVED the friggin show.

So frankly, the experienced you describe is atypical for people who properly wean down before stepping off this medication. And it is for SURE far less harsh than getting off of methadone, I can promise you that.

If you *did* properly wean down, the only other thing I can think of is that perhaps you have depression that you were self-medicating with opioids. You would be far from the first one to do so.

When done properly, buprenorphine isn't any more a poison than any other opioid.

hopefully tryin · 07-02-2008, 11:10 AM

Hi, just wanted to jump in on this. I just went through a medical detox 2 weeks ago tomorrow and they used buprenorphine injections IM every 6hrs for the 1st 72 hrs which is basically what bvaljalo said chemically but from what I understand subs also have something called naloxone(sp?) in them. I was in detox for 5 days and didn't feel very much w/d at all and when I left detox I was told by others there that I might have some w/d from the buprenorphine injections but I didnt. They only gave us the bup for my 1st 72 hrs there then it was alternate meds to deal with the anxiety and body aches, etc. I have w/d many times on my own at home and this was my 1st medical inpatient detox and it really helped. When I got out of detox I decided to "try" the subs and see if I really needed them. I took them for a few days as prescribed but found that my cravings were situational and emotion driven. So I started them in half and today have not taken any and have no cravings or physical w/d and yesterday only took a half of an 8mg. Honestly the detox was the way for me and my program of NA that I am working!!! I really think that in order for ANYTHING to work THE ADDICT HAS TO WANT IT and be doing it for him/herself! Just my thoughts and opinions BUT the subs do work! Just dont let a money hungry Dr talk you into staying on them forever and ever! I have heard of that happening. I went in to my Dr and said to him "before I take these subs I want a plan and strict regimen of how long and how many I will take" and now I went yesterday for recheck and got my new script and have not even filled it because I dont want to and also have some left from my last script!

Puddy · 07-02-2008, 12:20 PM

I disagree, even if done properly the post acute withdrawals can last up to a year, according to the rep from Reckit Pharmaceuticals, the maker of Suboxone, when I called them and asked them what the hell was happening to me.

A few people may have a better experience than mine, but they are the rare ones. Age is a factor among others here.

Again, google Opiate Detox Recovery for the large community of people who are experiencing or have experienced the same thing as I.

And I consider myself poisoned for the following reasons:

1) I was told the withdrawal would be milder than the Percocet/Vicodin w/d.
Nothing could be further from the truth.

2) I was told the acute phase would last "a week or maybe a little more".
Mine lasted 37 days. Same as a whole boatload of people on that website.

My Sub doctor got his information from his 8 hour course he had to take to be able to prescribe. Who sponsors that training? Reckit Pharmaceuticals.

I am not going to argue with anyone about this, this is the truth, I have legions of people behind me who will corroborate this story.

If you were one of the very lucky/very few, I am happy for you. Your experience is NOT the norm.

The pharmaceutical company is now taking out radio ads. There will be thousands and thousands more people in my situation. All I am doing is warning. Google Opiate Detox Recovery for proof of everything I am saying.

Don't buy into NAABT's website, it is corporate sponsored by Reckit Pharmaceuticals and is full of pro-Sub crap.

Everyone, use it for a week to get off opiates if you must. No longer. I just don't want to see anyone else suicidal for months on end.

07-01-2008, 04:47 PM	#1 (permalink)
Callie Member Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 446	What's the deal with Suboxone? Is it good or bad? My AH is requesting this info and I said I'd ask here. I've heard good and bad things about it. Can someone explain their experiences? Is it true that you become addicted to that too? AH has taken Sub before, but stopped "because I didn't do anything anyway." Is it an antidepressant as well?? One of the IOP rehab's will rx it, but does not like the idea of it at all. But from what I'm hearing on here it's the opposite. Can someone enlighten me?? Also, what is it considered? Is it an opiate, opiod or is it something that they could or would test for in a urine test?
Callie Member Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 446

07-01-2008, 05:01 PM	#2 (permalink)
*marle* Community Greeter Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: East Tawas, MI Posts: 2,982	My daughter used heroin for over two years and is currently in a halfway house. When she was in rehab she started on suboxone. She had no withdrawals and has no cravings. She absolutely knows that she still needs to work a program and does everything that she needs to do to continue to get better. Suboxone is addictive and has it own withdrawals, but it allows the addict to function and have the time to get their lives back. My daughter will probably stay on it for a year due to the length of her addiction and the amount that she used. She comes home on weekends and it is like night and day. I feel like I have my daughter back. Hugs, Marle p.s. The rehab she was in is one of the top ones in the country and they support suboxone treatment. They have a separate program just for opiate addiction.
	__________________ "If we all knew the answers, there would be no need for questions."

07-01-2008, 05:08 PM	#3 (permalink)
Callie Member Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 446	Thanks Marle - Another question that I have is what does suboxone actually do? I know it blocks opiates - right? Does it also give you a high? I have a feeling that AH took it the first time around thinking that it would give him that get up and go that opiates/oids do to him. Also, how long does one usually stay on sub? Weeks, months years??
Callie Member Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 446

07-01-2008, 05:35 PM	#6 (permalink)
exjunky Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Miami, FL Posts: 592	It saved my life. It's hard to explain in a few words, but basically it satisfies the physical urge to use opiates but it doesn't make you high like methadone or other drugs would. So you deal with sobriety in the early stages of your detox but you don't have to deal with the intense pains of opiate withdrawals. Plus I am fairly certain that it's a harmless drug, at least for those already opiate dependent.
	__________________ If you can't want to not want, at least want to want to not want.

07-01-2008, 05:40 PM	#7 (permalink)
Callie Member Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 446	I'm not entirely sure WHAT he's w/ding from as he's lied about alot. I know he's WAS addicted to oxy in the past, but he claims it's sporadic oxy and mainly percocet. So are you saying if it's percocet only he may as well just get through the w/d and skip the sub? BTW - ShutupScott - you are a cutie patootie and I'm so glad you're getting yourself clean. You are VERY young and you've got alot of life ahead of you. Live it - don't poison yourself and those around you with drugs. My AH started his on and off addiction (unbeknownst to me) a few years earlier than you and he's now 38. He's done some awful things in the name of addiction. He's led a very misleading,deceiving and miserable life. He's caused me immense pain. We've been together since we were 17. Please stick with it and get yourself right. This life is too short for the misery that addiction causes not only the addict, but the ones who love the addict as well.
Callie Member Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 446

07-01-2008, 05:34 PM	#5 (permalink)
ShutupScott Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Boston, MA / Klamath Falls, Oregon Posts: 45	im lowering my dose of subs right now, it helped a lot, the withdrawal is really uncomfortable for me (only because im doing a rapid taper, against my doctors advice, but i just want to be off of them without a long taper because i feel judged by some people in recovery for being on them)

07-01-2008, 05:43 PM	#8 (permalink)
ShutupScott Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Boston, MA / Klamath Falls, Oregon Posts: 45	i edited my post, because i wasn't thinking fully through when i pressed enter.. subs will work just as fine for any opiate it just depends on the length and amount used, as to it being a better option or not over just going to a detox center without using it

07-01-2008, 07:40 PM	#9 (permalink)
Flatts4Ever Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Indianapolis Posts: 23	I had kinda the same questions about the Sub's....Thanks for asking those questions....I have 1 more question to whoever might be able to answer it.....I have been taking a quarter of a 8 milligram Sub for the past 8 days....what kind of withdrawls can I expect when I stop taking them?? A friend of mine gave me some of hers (i know she wasnt suppose to but she did) to help with my withdrawl.....So now I am wondering what I can expect when those are gone?? Am I gonna have the same kind of withdrawls as I did when I stopped taking the pain pills??? Any info would be greatly apperciated!!!!

07-01-2008, 08:48 PM	#10 (permalink)
ShutupScott Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Boston, MA / Klamath Falls, Oregon Posts: 45	well, im going through withdrawal from subs right now, it's pretty much all the same as opiate withdrawal just not as bad, a bit sweaty, anxious, can't sleep, a bit sore.. yawning a lot, tired, runny nose.. but if you taper down how the doctor tells you to then it might not be as bad, but i know for a fact that this isn't as bad as heroin withdrawal was, but it's still something that i do not in any way enjoy

07-01-2008, 08:59 PM	#11 (permalink)
bvaljalo u jst trye it, mistr!!! Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: East Bay, California Posts: 1,173	Man, I've talked about this SO MANY TIMES, including to some of you asking questions here and now. Callie ... again ... percocet and oxys are THE SAME DRUG. Here: Suboxone.com - Understanding Opioid Dependence Poke around, lots of good info there. Here's the two minute version: buprenorphine is an long-acting partial opioid-agonist drug used to treat opioid-dependent patients. It strongly binds to the body's opioid receptors (thus preventing withdrawals), even more strongly than full-agonist opioids/opiates (such as heroin, oxycodone, etc, thus rendering these drugs useless when taken while on bupe) but it doesn't activate the receptors very much (hence the 'partial' part) so it doesn't create any noticeable 'high'. You very much feel 'normal' while you're on it. It does act as an anti-depressant, yes. So, bottom-line, it's an opioid, so YES there are withdrawals from it. People stay on it for wildly varying lengths of time. From a week to years. Just as with any opioid/opiate (the distinction between these terms is academic, btw), the LESS of it you have been taking recently when you QUIT, the LESS your withdrawals will be. The withdrawals from it tend to be considerably milder than those from full-agonist opioids, but they also tend to linger in a mild form for a bit longer.
	__________________ Listen to me now I need to let you know You don't have to go it alone And it's you when I look in the mirror And it's you when I don't pick up the phone Sometimes you can't make it on your own ...

07-02-2008, 08:11 AM	#13 (permalink)
Puddy Member Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 30	I was on Suboxone for 6 months. I was told it was perfect for my prescription pain medicine addiction. I went off Sub in April and I am still in severe post-acute withdrawal. No energy coupled with massive waves of depression. And - even after you've been off a while your addiction and cravings for opiates come back, so you're just going to have to go through the day-to-day recovery of staying clean from opiates anyways. I was in acute w/d's for 5 weeks, where I wanted to kill myself every single day. This is the truth. I can see Sub for one week only to detox off of opiates (heroin or prescription), but anything longer than that you are setting yourself up for some serious misery. Check www . heroin-detox . com under the Buprenorphine/Suboxone section and you will find a community of survivors from this poison. Please stay away from this drug.
Puddy Member Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 30

07-02-2008, 08:59 AM	#14 (permalink)
bvaljalo u jst trye it, mistr!!! Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: East Bay, California Posts: 1,173	Puddy: I'm sorry you're suffering bud. How much dope were you on originally, how long, and how much bupe were you taking when you quit taking it? Just as with any opiate, you really have to wean your way down to a low dose before you get off of it, otherwise, yeah, it's friggin miserable. My experience was totally different from yours. When I stepped off (after 7 months on bupe, preceded by 3+ years of sniffing at least 240mg of oxycontin EVERY DAY) I was at 2mg/day. More than I recommend, btw, if I had a chance to do it again I'd be wanting to get down to about .5mg/day or even every other day. Anyways, I was pretty miserable for about 96 hours, and after that, I had some lingering w/d symptoms that lasted about a month, nothing I couldn't handle, esp. with the help of some basic meds from my bupe doctor (clonidine, neurontin, ambien to be precise). On day 11 off of bupe I was 40ft from the stage at a VERY loud Roger Waters concert, rocking out to Pink Floyd tunes with people toking up and drinking all around me (both of which I always loved to do at concerts), but I stayed sober, and LOVED the friggin show. So frankly, the experienced you describe is atypical for people who properly wean down before stepping off this medication. And it is for SURE far less harsh than getting off of methadone, I can promise you that. If you did properly wean down, the only other thing I can think of is that perhaps you have depression that you were self-medicating with opioids. You would be far from the first one to do so. When done properly, buprenorphine isn't any more a poison than any other opioid.
	__________________ Listen to me now I need to let you know You don't have to go it alone And it's you when I look in the mirror And it's you when I don't pick up the phone Sometimes you can't make it on your own ...

07-02-2008, 11:10 AM	#15 (permalink)
hopefully tryin Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: A very HOT place, near the beach ;-) Posts: 88	Hi, just wanted to jump in on this. I just went through a medical detox 2 weeks ago tomorrow and they used buprenorphine injections IM every 6hrs for the 1st 72 hrs which is basically what bvaljalo said chemically but from what I understand subs also have something called naloxone(sp?) in them. I was in detox for 5 days and didn't feel very much w/d at all and when I left detox I was told by others there that I might have some w/d from the buprenorphine injections but I didnt. They only gave us the bup for my 1st 72 hrs there then it was alternate meds to deal with the anxiety and body aches, etc. I have w/d many times on my own at home and this was my 1st medical inpatient detox and it really helped. When I got out of detox I decided to "try" the subs and see if I really needed them. I took them for a few days as prescribed but found that my cravings were situational and emotion driven. So I started them in half and today have not taken any and have no cravings or physical w/d and yesterday only took a half of an 8mg. Honestly the detox was the way for me and my program of NA that I am working!!! I really think that in order for ANYTHING to work THE ADDICT HAS TO WANT IT and be doing it for him/herself! Just my thoughts and opinions BUT the subs do work! Just dont let a money hungry Dr talk you into staying on them forever and ever! I have heard of that happening. I went in to my Dr and said to him "before I take these subs I want a plan and strict regimen of how long and how many I will take" and now I went yesterday for recheck and got my new script and have not even filled it because I dont want to and also have some left from my last script!
	__________________ For we walk by faith, not by sight 2 Corinthians 5:7

07-02-2008, 12:20 PM	#16 (permalink)
Puddy Member Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 30	I disagree, even if done properly the post acute withdrawals can last up to a year, according to the rep from Reckit Pharmaceuticals, the maker of Suboxone, when I called them and asked them what the hell was happening to me. A few people may have a better experience than mine, but they are the rare ones. Age is a factor among others here. Again, google Opiate Detox Recovery for the large community of people who are experiencing or have experienced the same thing as I. And I consider myself poisoned for the following reasons: 1) I was told the withdrawal would be milder than the Percocet/Vicodin w/d. Nothing could be further from the truth. 2) I was told the acute phase would last "a week or maybe a little more". Mine lasted 37 days. Same as a whole boatload of people on that website. My Sub doctor got his information from his 8 hour course he had to take to be able to prescribe. Who sponsors that training? Reckit Pharmaceuticals. I am not going to argue with anyone about this, this is the truth, I have legions of people behind me who will corroborate this story. If you were one of the very lucky/very few, I am happy for you. Your experience is NOT the norm. The pharmaceutical company is now taking out radio ads. There will be thousands and thousands more people in my situation. All I am doing is warning. Google Opiate Detox Recovery for proof of everything I am saying. Don't buy into NAABT's website, it is corporate sponsored by Reckit Pharmaceuticals and is full of pro-Sub crap. Everyone, use it for a week to get off opiates if you must. No longer. I just don't want to see anyone else suicidal for months on end.
Puddy Member Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 30