Chemical Dependents anonymous

[navysteve]

Has anyone heard of this 12 step fellowship? I call it AA for addicts. What I mean is that they keep it simple where ( in my opinion) NA complicates the hell out of the program. In CDA they work the steps more along the lines of how AA began them. I was just wondering what others thoughts were on this.

[Barto]

Well, I just Googled CDA, but it doesn’t state its position on caffeine and nicotine. Do you know what CDA’s position is on these two very addicting, mind and mood altering chemicals / drugs?

[windysan]

another 12 step thing i'll never understand. dang

[Barto]

Originally Posted by windysan

another 12 step thing i'll never understand. dang

LOL. You crack me up brother!

[navysteve]

Their book mentions them. I have been to CDA meetings where they had coffee and people smoked so I guess one vice at a time

[Barto]

What does the book say about them?

[navysteve]

Well I just got their book and it says on page 13 that although you will see some members of CDA smoking and drinking coffee, they will tell you that these are also addictive substances that they have just not chosen to give up. Like I said, I just got their book. I found out about these guys a few weeks before I moved to an area where they do not exist ( yet). As an addict who got clean in AA, I often felt something missing in my program. NA holds No Answers for me. I am a real drug addict but what I have seen is "don't work the steps" or taking forever to get over step one, two whatever...

What I see so far in CDA is a simpler program. But I do not know much about it. Could be a case of grass looking greener???

[Barto]

Thanks for getting back to me on that. Like I said, I read their website but I didn’t get much info. I was intrigued though. I notice they give cakes. How do they figure “clean time”? If it is based on all mind altering chemicals, then is one considered clean while consuming caffeine and nicotine?

Would you mind posting an excerpt from page 13?

[navysteve]

Excerpt:
Further,CDA members, although they may drink coffee or smoke cigarettes, will tell you that these are also addictions. These people have simply not chosen to become free of these substances yet. That.s right. The notion of the addict most commonly accepted by another addict is that the use of any chemical, compulsively or obsessively ,to any degree, qualifies a person to be counted among those who need to be treated for their addiction.

[navysteve]

Giving cakes is an old AA tradition in many areas that bled over to this fellowship on the anniversary day of you getting your first chip.

[Barto]

I know about AA. I’ve been sober in AA for a few years. I’m wondering if CDA means what it states when it states “no mind altering chemicals (unless properly prescribed).” The reason I’m interested is that I’ve found this to be a problem with the “we treat every addiction there is” approach.

Do caffeine and nicotine users qualify for cakes in CDA?

[navysteve]

I don't think it is the case. Like I said, what I saw at the few meetings I attended were very much like a conservative AA. It was nothing like a we treat everything approach. I think the fellowship started due to a lack of program in NA ( perceived, not trying to make a declaration). The co-founders found that NA went way over the deep end in its approach to recovery and wanted a simplet return to old fachoned step work. Doesn't sound like the take what you want, talk about all your issues meeting for left handed albino self serving obtuse oh yeah, I drank a bit too crowd

[Barto]

Originally Posted by navysteve

I don't think it is the case. Like I said, what I saw at the few meetings I attended were very much like a conservative AA. It was nothing like a we treat everything approach. I think the fellowship started due to a lack of program in NA ( perceived, not trying to make a declaration). The co-founders found that NA went way over the deep end in its approach to recovery and wanted a simplet return to old fachoned step work. Doesn't sound like the take what you want, talk about all your issues meeting for left handed albino self serving obtuse oh yeah, I drank a bit too crowd

I'm not sure I understand. I really want to know if clean means abstinent from all non-prescribed chemicals including caffeine and nicotine. If not, what constitutes clean? Does each member get to choose for himself?

[navysteve]

Well sir,
that is why I posted here. To see if anyone here has any experience with CDA. I do not know that much. You are asking me a question I cannot answer

[Barto]

Very good! I have emailed them then. As soon as I here anything, I’ll post back.

[Tryin2Recover]

Ive never heard of this. The AA fellowships in my area suit me nicely, they are very liberal when it comes to drug addicts (many people only declare themselves as addicts) yet they adhere to the 'old ways' of the 12 step pretty nicely.

[Barto]

Hi T2R,

Not to be anal or to pick on you, but these two statements are inconsistent. There is no such thing as an AA member that is not alcoholic, except perhaps the confused heavy drinker with a desire to stop drinking. Aside from the fact that old AA was much more Step centered than this new treatment center influenced / group therapy minded population in the rooms, older AA more strongly advocated "singleness of purpose" – "Alcoholics" seeking “sobriety” defined as “freedom from alcohol.”

If you are interested in reading AA’s official position on the issue, let me know and I’ll post links to official AA info for you. Of course, none of this applies to dually addicted alcoholica. Alcoholics with problems other than alcohol are a huge and appropriate part of our fellowship.

PS. I’ve never heard of it either, but it is intriguing.

[navysteve]

"They are very liberal when it comes to drug addicts (many people only declare themselves as addicts) yet they adhere to the 'old ways' of the 12 step pretty nicely"

No offense, but that is not AA. I am a drug addict also, so sharing about drugs does not bother me, but the first tradition tells me that we is more important than me. I took a guy to his first meeting a few years ago, because he was in his twenties I arrogantly assumed he had at least toyed with drugs. The meeting was full of people who announced tham selves as and'as ( Alcoholic and a drug addict, alcoholic and a left handed albino midget with a superiority complex etc...) He compared out, said AA must not be for him and sought out other means of self control, He died behind the wheeel of his car. Sobriety, through the teaching and practice of the twelve steps is the sole purpose of an AA meeting. We have tried to be allt hings to all people and when we do, drunks die!!

[kj3880]

I see your point about comparing out. I find that AA isn't very relevant for me simply because alcohol addiction differs from drug addiction in some ways, and I never wanted to drink more than 2 drinks in my life. I go to the AA meetings when I can't get to NA, and I feel kind of bad, like I'm a fraud, when I'm sitting there and they are talking about how they drank all this alcohol and how they can't drink socially now. I just never liked alcohol much, the taste, the "out of it" feeling, the next day headache, especially. So it doesn't tempt me. Opiates feel totally different to me. I find NA to be very helpful, but I can see where if you love AA, you might not like NA as much, because I do find them to be different.
kj

[Gmoney]

I never heard of CDA until I read this thread. Since I've never been to one of their meetings, I can't say what their program is like, or whatever. In the rooms, I identify as an NA member and a recovering addict. I guess we're all entitled to our views, and some folks may see NA as confusing while others do not. I fall in the latter category. I also consider myself as a "real" addict and have been priviledged to find recovery in an area where working the steps is crucial and procrastination in step work is not reccommended. It has been my experience to find the NA program very simple, even for those who tend to complicate it. Although many NA members tend to use the Step Working Guides as a tool, there are also many in NA who go about doing step work a variety of other ways (depending on the guidance of a sponsor). And like AA, NA is not a program that puts forth a "we treat everything" perspective because of it's Singleness of Purpose. In NA, our disease is addiction, not chemical dependency.

Which brings me to what I found at CDA's website.

"Chemically Dependent Anonymous deals entirely with the disease of addiction. We of CDA do not make distinctions in the recovery process based on any particular substance, believing that the addictive-compulsive usage of chemicals is the core of our disease and the use of any mood-changing chemical will result in relapse."

Result in relapse? LOL!!! It appears that CDA accepts the disease concept of addiction and doesn't differentiate between drugs. Yet, it mentions:

"CDA is a Twelve Step fellowship of men and women whose primary purpose is to stay clean and sober and to help others like us to achieve recovery from chemical dependence."

Sounds to me like a contradiction here. It is my understanding that anytime the phrase "clean and sober" is used, it is used to make a distinction between drug use and alcohol use. In NA, the term "clean" is all-inclusive because alcohol is considered a drug. As Barto said: '“sobriety” defined as “freedom from alcohol.”


"The primary purpose of CDA as a whole is to remain clean and to help others like us gain recovery. By sharing our Experience, Strength, and Hope with each other, we solve our common problem and help others to recover from chemical dependence which has made our lives unmanageable."

It also appears that CDA makes a distinction between the disease of addiction and chemical dependency. I mean, is it the disease of addiction or chemical dependency that makes an addict unmanageable? Sounds to me like CDA is either complicated or confused, but I don't know for sure. Just an initial observation.

Oh yeah...how people identify themselves in a meeting (i.e., cross-addicted, alcoholic-addict, triple-bypass addicted, etc...) isn't really a reflection of the effectiveness or simplicity of a program. What it reveals, IMO, is an unwillingness to understand and apply Traditions or lack of understanding about the disease of addiction by those that identify that way.

[Barto]

Originally Posted by kj3880

... I find that AA isn't very relevant for me simply because alcohol addiction differs from drug addiction in some ways, and I never wanted to drink more than 2 drinks in my life. ... I just never liked alcohol much, the taste, the "out of it" feeling, the next day headache, especially ... because I do find them to be different. kj

Yep different for sure. It took me two drinks to get another two drinks so I could get out the door to start drinking. That is unless I had a good 20 hour supply at home. Then why go out??? LOL.

Alcohol didn’t make me feel out of it until I felt nothing. It always made me feel like I was ready to go. I loved the taste and the smell. I couldn’t imagine life without it at one point.

[Barto]

I was wondering when you would show up in this one Gary. LOL. I’m waiting for a reply to an email I sent to CDA. I’ll post here when I get it. I’m interested in their take on the mind altering drugs caffeine and nicotine. This could be a significant difference between NA and CDA. Other than that, I don’t see a real difference yet. But I don’t know that much about either. I consider you the resident expert on NA around here.

[Tryin2Recover]

Who are any of you to say what is or is not AA? What I meant is that most of the members of my fellowship arent of the anal oldschool variety, the kind that will cut you off if you share about drugs or kick you out if you proclaim yourself an addict instead of an alcoholic. From an addiction standpoint there is ZERO difference between an alcoholic and an addict, except for a few moral and social miscues between them. The fact remains that an alcoholic is still by definition an addict, and a drug addict and an alcoholic are both in most cases using or drinking as a result of a symptom of their disease whose roots go far deeper than just using or drinking. I am well aware of AAs 'official' position on the issue, but in my fellowship people tend not to get preoccupied on officialness and technicalities, and instead focus on the solution of helping others who struggle with addiction whether that be booze or pot or crack or dope or all of the above. I came into the fellowship only proclaiming myself an addict, and eventually out of humility began to accept and also admit that I was indeed also an alcoholic, as have many others I have known in my fellowship. And for that I am forever grateful, because if someone told me to get the hell out because I didnt admit I was also an alcoholic at first, at a very confused and hopless stage in my life, I might not even be alive today.

[navysteve]

Then why is there another fellowship? NA/CA/ and CDA????? I can assure you that they did not get started because people in AA did not want addicts in their rooms? NA was started by people in AA who felt that something was missing in their recovery ( sounds like a difference???) They wrote a great book to address their need to recover. Their book gives thanks to AA but makes a distinction about how they needed to expand. Who am I to say what is or is not AA? I am a member of AA, I am also a member of NA. It is not about getting preoccupied with anything friend. AA members have tried to be all things to all people before and it has always failed. The main reason it is wrong to be an addict in AA. The most powerful tool we have to help others is our experience, strength and hope. My common suffering with people who suffer from the same ailment makes the solution palatable to them. If I am 12 stepping a drunk and I talk about shooting dope with a prostitute he may not hear my solution because he does not relate to me. I do not have the right to dilute AA. That is why I go to NA as well. I meant no disrespect to anyone who attends other fellowships but they exist for a reason