Codeine Addict! New user

[neverwantedthis]

I came across this website quiet by mistake.
I was looking up how to beat codeine addiction and found my way here. I have read many posts and admire everyones strength and honesty. Honest is something I haven't been with myself nor anyone around me for 3 years.
I first became addicted to codeine 3 years ago after having surgery for an illness and the codeine made everything ok, the doctor wouldn't prescribe anymore so I began buying otc Nurefon Plus and taking up to 72 tablets a day sometimes more. Throughout this I have been diagnosed with Terminal Ileal Crohns Disease and feel maybe the drugs I was abusing have been the cause of my new illness and I know that the codeine is only making my crohns worse and even harder to deal wit but it has been so hard to actually admit I had a problem. I cant buy the drugs online here in Aussie but I began to chemist hop and get people to buy them for me, not one person ever woke up or spoke up about me perhaps having a problem so I continued.
I have tried a few times to kick it by cutting down the amount I take or only having it every few days, then I get Depressed, sweaty and clammy, can't sleep and get the worst ever rls where I think I feel like if I don't take some more I'm gunna die..
I really want to get clean and have an appointment to see my GP and book into an outpatients detox program, I want my crohns to get better and I want to be a better person for my children and not set the example that taking drugs is ok and thats it ok to take the easy way out when things get tough. I know it's going to be hard but what is harder is that now I have come clean to those close to me they have gone into denial and have walked away and turned their backs on me for hiding something for so long and not trusting in them enough to tell them.
I dont want to be an addict my whole life, I want to be the person I once was and know I can be again.

[Sugah]

Do you have NA meetings in your area? You'll find a lot of face to face support. In the meantime, the plan you have to follow through with your doctor is a good one. Please try to understand that, like any chronic condition, addiction doesn't magically disappear when the drug is withdrawn. Perhaps it does with physical dependence, but true addiction is a condition that, like your Crohn's Disease, must be treated if you want to remain drug-free.

Peace & Love,
Sugah

[TheCartel]

Dear Neverwantedthis,
I too woke up one day to my life being ripped apart. As an adult, I found it hard to believe there was something about ME that I had little or no control over. I learned through repeated attempts to "taper off" or "cold turkey" quit, that I no longer had the ability to do it. That will power to stop using a drug leaves at some early point I believe.

Once you've come to the realization that you need help, then you've taken the first crucial step towards this thing called "recovery" or "getting better".

From what you wrote, it appears you and I (and many others here) think alike. If that is the case, then what has been working for me may work for you. Finding local face to face support will be key. Narcotics anonymous, or if you don't have that, go to an alcoholics anonymous. Addiction is addiction, no matter what label you put on it. The thought patterns, broken lives, and failed attempts at getting clean are a common thread, with a common solution.

Cheers for being honest enough to admit to those around you...they may or may not come around, but that decision is not up to you. The important thing right now is to get the help you need.

Keep us posted as to how things are coming.
Talk to you soon,
The Cartel.

[serenityqueen]

Glad you found us!

I don't think it was "quite by mistake."

Fate has a way of stepping in

Stick around, keep posting and reading and let us know how things are going.

God Bless,
Judy

[woops]

HI
A couple of sites online which deal very specifically with codeine addiction - mainly in the form of nurofen plus, solpadeine, panadene forte etc - as obtained in Australia and UK.
Just google codeinefree - its a uk site dedicated to codeine addiction support and many people manage to find enough support there to get off the codeine - either by ct or tapering or suboxone taper. Not just fellow sufferers - but help from people in the medical field.
Another site is myconnectedcommunity - mc2 - has tons of topics and forums - scroll down to find codeine - and join the community forum - again very helpful - lots of information and support. This site can offer specific advice about help/detox/rehab etc etc in Australia........... but is open to anyone on the net as is the UK site.
Good luck.
Better to tackle it now as the ibuprophen in N+ will destroy your gut.........
don't put off getting help.
woops

[ccgirl2]

Not to hijack the thread, but Woops, it seems codeine use is worse in G.B. and Australia and Canada. Is that because they are OTC meds and easier to obtain? Just curious.

[emmer]

I abused codeine for many years and in my heavyist use I would also take them by the handfulls.
I have 70-75 days clean from everything and am working the steps and attending na meetings. This helps alot as does getting a sponser.

My withdrawals from them wasnt too bad but the cravings were there for awhile.

Find a na meeting in your area ...ok?

..Joe

[ksos]

Hello and welcome to SR.

You have a very painful condition, and I am not saying that you are not abusing the codeine, but let me throw out a suggestion, which may or may not be helpful.

I am unsure of the medical resources in your homeland; however, is there a pain management specialist or clinic that you may want to consult?

Have you spoke with your MD about this?

I wish you the best and keep posting!

[woops]

Originally Posted by ccgirl2

Not to hijack the thread, but Woops, it seems codeine use is worse in G.B. and Australia and Canada. Is that because they are OTC meds and easier to obtain? Just curious.

Hi CC

Yep - codeine is freely available otc in UK, Canada, Australia at any and all pharmacies. And codeine abuse is therefore a real problem in these countries. You can buy OTC products containing 12.8 mg codeine - as codeine phosphate - combined with either ibuprophen or paracetamol - 200 mg. At the moment people are lobbying parliament to get legislation in place to ban OTC codeine - but many people (non addicts) take the view that it would be unfair to take these preparations off the market as they are very useful for pain relief in the vast majority of people who dont develop dependency. And I think that has to be a valid argument? What do you think Emmer?

In actual fact - these pills like nurofen +, solpadeine, panadeine etc are very weak when compared with pills like vicodin and hydrocodone etc...............just not comparable really. I think that - altho there is a very real danger of becoming dependent on these OTC pills - the majority of people seem to manage to control their intake and take as advised for just a couple of days. Seems that it takes some weeks of continuous and very heavy use of the OTC preparation for there to be a danger of dependency. Codeine is supposedly a very very weak opiate.

Mind you - if you visit the sites as suggested to this thread started in Tasmania - you will see that there is a very real problem.

From my reading, Australia seems to be aware and there are many places where people can go for advice and help - and indeed treatment. Not so in the UK.

The two sites I mentioned are really great though - and many many people seem to draw enough support, help and encouragement to get off their particular problematic pill. There are psychiatric nurses and pharmacists available to ask questions of - on these sites. It's good stuff.

But - as with all addiction - the person has to admit to the problem and ask for help first.......
If you are interested - you might find it interesting to read at these sites? Mind you - I think you have to join before you can read fellow members posts - the privacy is important I think.

Apparently its a favourite pastime of visiting Americans to UK , Canada, Oz - collection of OTC codeine!! LOL
Nice to speak to you - been a while - hope you are well?
Best
woops

[TiredMama]

Welcome and I don't think it was a "mistake" even though it seemed to be that you found us. Keep posting and good luck to you dear.

[emmer]

Codeine is a much weaker opiate than oxys etc, but can still be very addicting and especially dangerous for those with drug abuse issues like me and lots of others.
I mean especially dangerous for those addicts in countries like the UK, Aus, Canada and on and on where it can be readily obtained otc.
The reason I say this is because of the ultra high amount of tylenol in each tablet.
As the addiction progresses the amount needed for a buzz is increased and there is a real danger of turning our liver to soup.

Here in Canada there is only 8mg of codeine in each pill and 250 of tylenol so you get the picture.
I can understand the anger that comes from people that don't want to see otc codeine abolished, but many people that have taken codeine for legit purposes have ended up addicts.

If it can happen to me it can happen to anyone as I wasn't born an addict.

[wilbsoon]

Neverwantedthis,
Welcome to SR. I too am from the great land downunder and went down the path of the N+. It is true that 12.8mg of codeine per tablet is not that strong compared to Oxys, Vicoden and the like but when your taking 72 a day that is 921mg of codeine so yes that is strong. I started taking them for headaches, stress, whatever, then more and more just to feel normal. Then when I tried to stop, the WD's started and I kept upping it just to stay away from them.

I tried tapering and cold turkey but by myself I didn't have the willpower to get past the anxiety. That was the real killer for me. In the end going CT for three days, then stupidly leaving a packet on the table "in case" ruined that, then giving my tablets, money and cards to my wife while she metered out the tablets over a taper dropping two tablets a day (way too fast in hindsight), then staying on one panedeine, two nurofen - ibuprofen only (my doctor said due to the amounts I had that my body was physically addicted to that too) for almost a week and then stopping cold. During this time I saw a councillor who helped out greatly and gave me goals to clock up one day at a time. I also saw a very good doctor who gave me (straight to my wife) valium for the bad days of WD and anxiety. They were a lifesaver for me and helped me get sleep but be very carefull cause it's easy to get addicted to them too (give them to somebody to meter out if you have to).

In about 11 hours I will have 3 weeks clean of Codeine completely. The first week was hell, the second much better but I just felt under the weather and never really felt better (runny nose, sneezing, sinus, ears). When you feel like that the craving to have just "a couple" to feel better are there but thinking about WDs killed that on the spot. Now at almost three weeks life could not be better. Getting to the gym, surfing (a bit warmer in NSW than down your way) and just doing life is awesome. My sleep has come up from three hours slowly to about 5 1/2 hours each night the last week. Last night I got 7 hours without waking up as I did lots of excercise during the day. It is so good to get up without having to think, "How many do I have left, when is the chemist open, I went to that chemist yesterday, how long ago did I go to that one, is the pharmacist looking at me strangely" - need I go on...

I wasn't on as much as you but some days went almost as high, just not on a regular basis. I wish you luck with the Detox program. I shared my way out just for some insight. As you will read here it doesn't matter which method you use, whether it be Cold Turker, taper, Detox - inpatient or outpatient, giving your meds to your patrner, doing it yourself, all that matters is that something works for you and you make it work. Doing things like coming clean to your family, giving meds to them for safekeeping, for me giving my cards and money to them too, all just make it easier when your mind becomes weak and you want to give in. For me when there was no one I was accountable to I just gave in everytime. Sound familiar?

And be very careful about swapping one addiction for another. Even alcohol when you feel like relaxing as I'm being informed by other members. It is just another way out. Instead go for a walk or get to a gym, you will feel 100 times better afterwards!

Woops has a huge amount of info on other websites in Oz and the UK about how big a problem N+ has become. My wife and I went in to the chemist the other day (for her) and I saw that the shelves with packets of 72 and 48 N+ were sold out. I asked about why they were sold out and the chemist said they are so popular now, they sell out everday! According to the websites by Woops some doctors estimate 5% of Australians are addicted!

Anyway, PM me about anything to do with N+ or whatever. I wish you the best with getting and staying clean. I won't BS you, it is the hardest thing I have done, but when you get over the worst it is so worth it, and the hard times are what have kept me from going back. I used to read all the posts of people who were where I am and wish I could get there. It can and is being done everyday. Now I read all the posts with people at a month, two months, six months, a year and so on clean. Looking forward to some of that.

[woops]

Great post above - informative, helpful, supportive.

Well done on your 3 weeks - it's great to read of someone getting free.

Codeine may be a so called "weak" opiate - but that must surely describe its action? But it isnt "weak" when it comes to addictive qualities?
As you say - those sites quoted reveal just what a huge problem its becoming here in the UK and in Oz. And people are taking vast quantities - to get the kick from the codeine.

There seems to be a worse situation here in the UK and in Oz, when compared to Canada. Emmer says that 8mg of codeine is the max OTC preparation available in Canada - and that 8 mg codeine phosphate is combined with tylenol (same as our paracetamol - I think). But here and Oz -the codeine phos (12.8 mg) is combined with either paracetamol (200mg) or with ibuprophen (200mg) - and these can have dreadful side effects. Ibuprophen produces varuses along the length of the gut - like varicose veins all along the gut lining - which can and do bleed.................. can be pretty dramatic bleeds too. And paracetamol is deadly to the liver - toxic stuff. Its a favourite for suicide in the UK.

I know that there is talk of more control at government level here - and I hope that it does do something to limit the sale of OTC of codeine..........
I hear the other side of the argument - but dont think it holds all that much water? If someone needs a stronger painkiller then surely the doctor is the person to consult? Day to day aspirin, paracetamol, ibuprophen can be readily purchased OTC - without the codeine phos. Anyone needing something stronger like DF118 sees the doc. As it should be. It would be great if all codeine could only be obtained that way.

I think there is a historical perspective here. And the drugs companies make a humungouse amount of money out of these pills. It's not in their interests for the pills to be controlled - but freely available. So - I dont imagine the manufacturers of such money spinners as N+ (which I think is hugely expensive........ £5.00 for just 24 pills) will take any of this lobbying lying down?

What is the situation in Oz? I know that Oz always seems to be about 25 years ahead of any other country in so many ways when dealing with addiction. The work being done on benzo addiction is impressive too.
I think UK drags its heals (at least re codeine - much more proactive in the benzo damage limitation)........... US isnt interested at all (esp re benzos) - free market economy rules. Such vast profits are being made - and that is total justification? Mind you - although the US doesnt have OTC codeine - their sales and use of stronger opiates is mind boggling - we simply dont have the variety of the opiates available over there. And nothing like the usage.

Thx Wilbs for putting up that post............. I think there is probably a real hidden epidemic in our countries re these OTC products - and there are so few threads in forums like this about it. Mind you - those forums dedicated to helping people re codeine products and problems are impressive - and packed full of information and support. Anyone with a codeine dependency/addiction/question should go and read at those sites. So much help available.

Well done you - and I am sure you will just get better and better............ life becoming more intoxicating......... without codeine!

Best
woops

[butterfly19]

Neverwantedthis,

It is a pleasure to meet you! I joined this site 3/20/08, what I like to call my "surrender date" because it was on that day that I had no idea what I was going to do about my addiction and was at the depths of despair. That night I did a search on recovery, and thankfully was directed to Sober Recovery. I immediately found friends willing to listen to me, cry with me, and pull me up when I had fallen down! I hope you will stick around and find the same to be true for yourself!

I'm also fortunate to find your post on here today. I've been looking for others who have a codeine addiction like myself. To give a little background on myself for those who don't know me: I have been a prescription pain pill addict for 5 years. My addiction started with having multiple injuries and health problems that required me to take Hydrocodone. I got too a point where I was taking so much that I truly don't know how I didn't accidentally overdose. Two years ago I tapered myself off of hydrocodone but began substituting with codeine, tramadol, anything I could get my hands on. I have bought codeine off the internet in some of the forms you listed above. I'm glad it isn't available OTC here in the US because I can only imagine the amounts of addicted, liver-damaged patients we would have walking around. I like what woops, emmer, and wilbsoon pointed out that although codeine may be perceived as a "weak opiate" that doesn't mean you can't develop an intense addiction to it. There have been a few times that I've been criticized for having "just a codeine" addiction, and some have said "if you tapered off hydrocodone, why can't you taper off of codeine?" I have come to the conclusion that for me, the addiction is much more a psychological one as it is a physical one. Confusing my brain for the past five years has made it difficult to convince myself that this is NO way to live!!!!

Currently I am on suboxone treatment. Today makes one week since I started on it. It is a combination drug that helps ease withdrawal symptoms while keeping you from getting high. It works differently on all people, but so far my experience with it has been pretty good. I go back to the addiction specialist tomorrow for my follow-up appt. I don't know if suboxone treatment is available in the various countries you all are in, but if I were you, I'd do a little research on it and consider giving it a try. Of course counseling, going to meetings, and actively participating in SR are also part of my treatment plan. I actually have a career in the medical field, and if I don't make some major changes in my lifestyle I'm at risk of losing my career not to mention my life. My health has been worse since becoming an addict, and I very much look forward to becoming healthy again!

I wish you the best of luck Neverwantedthis!!!! Keep coming back and don't be afraid to ask as many questions as you need to. This is a very suppportive community, and I thank God everyday that I have found it! Feel free to PM me anytime (and that goes for all of you other codeine addicts as well). I also like to hang out in chat, and I enjoy going to the Sunday AA meeting there as well. You'll find that although we don't all have the same addiction, we are all still in the same boat!!!! Take care and God bless!!

butterfly19

[ksos]

Personally speaking, I would be dead within two weeks if I lived in any of these countries that permit OTC codeine. I take my hat off to anyone who can detox off of stuff that is so readily avaliable...

[neverwantedthis]

I really really want to Thank everyone for their replies, It means alot to me.
Well come Sunday after a night out on the town and ending up broke haha I had 6 tablets left and was booked to see the doctor Monday. Wasn't sure how I was going to make it through the day/night I have never taken such a low dose of N+ before, my body was used to haveing at least between 48 - 96 tablets per day, yeah alot I know.
I kept finding excuses to take it, there was always some sort of pain...
The Crohn's Disease being the worst of all, but the Ibobrufen made this a million times worse.. And I ended up in hospital many times again recently but still managed to talk people into getting my tablets (I learnt to lie really really good)
I saw my doc on Monday and we decided against outpatients I'm really not good with people specially a few, never have been. He seemed to think I could go CT so here I am...
It's 3:48am Wednesday morning and I am feeling like I'm going crazy.. I can't sleep for any longer than half an hour at a time, I have headaches and the worst RLS I have ever experienced.. I have been taking my vitamins daily, panadol every 4 hours and plenty of fluids.. I have the flu as well, maybe that was a godsend to mask the withdrawls for me who knows.. I just am finding it soooooooo hard right now.. I just wanna be able to sleep..
Thanks woops for the websites I will check them out, and wilbs Thanks for your post was great to read..
I know Australia has a huge N+ problem, All the chemists in town down here are forever sold out of the big packs, and many times I see the same people just like me chemist hop. I used to think I was crazy and felt so alone but feel much better about it now.. My eldest daughter is with me and has been helping me stay at home and away from anywhere I can purchase any. So I guess today is day 3 and I just push forward.
Thanks everyone, going to try sleep some now.

Thats what I tried to post the other night but it wouldn't let me for some reason. Since then I ended up in Emergency last night, I thought I was going crazy, couldn't sleep and the rls was the worst in my life. Thought they might treat me a little different once all my secrets were out but they were all fantastic, doctors and nurses.. I am home now after sleeping a whopping 5 hours (I was excited hehe) Thjey have done full bloods etc but I get results from my doc on monday. I am now going to attend my first appointment on Friday the 9th with the drug and alcohol counselling service.. Yes I did realise I can't do it alone like I thought. CT was the hardest thing, I am day 5 now and have managed to still have no give ins.. Boy didnt think it would be so hard tho....You guys are all so wonderful and supportive and I am really glad I found this place

[wilbsoon]

Day 5, wow, congratulations! That is a massive step going CT from such a high dose, the worst should be over or allmost over. For me the sleeplessness lasted about a week but week one was the worst. Then the only way is up. Would you ever want to go back there again? I am up to 24 days and feel great. I never thought I would feel like this again and still can't believe it. I still wake up and think about codeine. Then remind myself I don't need them. You have to re-train your brain and correct your learned behavoiur on a daily, hourly basis for a while. Whenever you would pick up you have to do something else or at least think about it. It does get better and from what I've heard will go away eventually.

As for the flu... I'd say everyone gets that. The runny nose, continuous coughing, sneezing, they are the WD symptoms. If it is bad then maybe your immune system is recovering. I had those for two weeks before the coughing went. I still get the occasional sneezing, oh and don't forget the sweetyness now and again, but it is getting better everyday.

Are you up for excercising yet? For me when I was anxious I would just walk, walk and walk for minimum an hour, sometimes a few until I was exhausted (gotta have a good IPOD or something with your favourite tunes). Would sleep really well then and the anxiousness would be gone till the next day.

Today the sun is shining, the surf is good (but small) and life could not be better. I'm going out with my wife tonight and don't have to think about when I need more tablets... Hang in there, you will get there soon and we will both get better and better as life goes on.

[butterfly19]

neverwantedthis,

Do you know if suboxone is available in your country? That is what I'm currently on. It definitely helps with the withdrawal symptoms. The docs say it helps with the cravings too, but so far I'm still craving strongly. I've been on the suboxone for 2 weeks now and starting next week they will begin tapering me down until I'm off of it totally.

I'm so sorry you went through withdrawals the way that you did! I've been there and I feel it's completely inhumane for someone to suffur like that when there are ways to keep you from suffering. Be sure and ask your doc about suboxone when you go to your next appt. Do an internet search for it as well. I have one web address that might give you more info: Buprenorphine (Suboxone Subutex) treatment and opioid addiction resources from The National Alliance of Advocates for Buprenorphine Treatment - NAABT - Home page
The drug in the US is called suboxone or (buprenorphine). It is not anything like methadone which is easy to get addicted to and nearly impossible to get off of. Suboxone has a medication in it that keeps you from getting high and makes it easier to taper down on it until your system no longer requires it. Please look into it! Keep me posted about it, I'm interested to know if it's available in other countries! Hope this info can help you a little! Stay strong, you're doing great! Congratulations on being so brave!!!!!!!!!!!!

butterfly19


p.s.: Feel free to send me a PM anytime, if you have any other questions or need to talk privately!

[tw33k]

The highest level of codeine available here in Oz is 15mg. It is in a product called Panadiene 15+. And yes, it is such a big problem here that the government is considering a proposal to make ALL products containing codeine available only with a prescription.

[wilbsoon]

Neverwantedthis,

How is it going? Hopefully you will be a week clean and things will be getting better? We do have Suboxone in Australia but it is under the name Buprenorphine and it is on prescription and you have to go on a register. However, if you are already a week clean then I wouldn't see the point as you would already be over the worst and well on your way... It is for some though and if you can't do CT or taper then from what I've read is an excellent way out. But as you've done CT a week ago from such a high dose why go back? (Not saying Suboxone is anyway worse or a backwards step from other ways of getting clean) Check it out anyway, as they say, anything that keeps you on the road to recovery and works for you IS the right path. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise.

Check in buddy,
Wilbsoon.

[bvaljalo]

So it's been four days, how'z about an update?

Congrats on five (nine, hopefully) days. You should be feeling about a 1000 times better by this point, eh?