Confusion in Recovery

[hairgirl]

I guess being on Suboxone means I am not "really" sober/clean.It is something I struggle with often, but I am learning to let it go.When I talk to people about my recovery,I simply say that I changed the negative factors that were part of my addiction.Life became somewhat "normal" again.
After spending almost eight months sober, I decided to have a drink while out bowling with my family.Some say this is a relapse, and I guess that is correct.I never had a problem with alcohol, and it was not my intention to never drink again.When I went into treatment for opiates, I was told to not drink, go to meetings, etc. I accepted and did everything that was asked of me, and it made a huge positive impact on me.I am not looking to justify taking that drink, I just did it.I discussed it with my treatment team, and they seem to think I will use opiates again if I drink.I know there is no way in hell I will, but it is easier for everyone to assume the opposite.
I have a very strong will.Anytime I ever abused a substance, it is because I wanted to.My life today is so different then it has ever been.I am genuinely happy for the very first time.I guess what I am saying is, I don't want to abuse any substance because I am choosing not to.Nobody forced me to get help, I wanted to.Some people get forced to join recovery because they did something wrong.I finally did something right, by wanting the madness to end, because I wanted my life to stay happy.
I just wanted to vent, and be honest with my peers.When I joined recovery, I promised myself that I would always be honest while working on my recovery.It is a process that goes way beyond any drug.It involves behaviors I have had way before I ever had a drug.Slowly, I am learning to change.I know it is something that I will work on for the rest of my life.

[Sugah]

hairgirl, I'm not going to try to convince you that you will use opiates if you drink. I would caution you about a rationalization below the surface, one you may not be aware of that tells you, "This has never been a problem for me, therefore, it's not a problem now. I can drink with impunity." Most addicts cannot.

Anytime I ever abused a substance, it is because I wanted to.

That line above is the one that confused me. Do you consider yourself to be an addict? If that statement is true, why do you need the suboxone? If you don't want to use, and the only time you've ever abused is when you wanted to, then why do you need a deterrent? I'm not picking on you - just helping you to see where you might be in a wee bit of denial. Addicts may begin using and abusing because they want to, because it feels good, because it's fun, and "because I can, damnit" -- but there comes a time when using is not a want but a need. If it was any other way, it wouldn't be so damned hard to stop.

Be careful. Count that drink as anything you want to. Unless there are legal ramifications if you pick up a drink, nobody can make you label it in any certain way. But, whatever you do, be careful. Addiction is a disease that may well be unique in that it causes us to tell lies - most of them to ourselves.

Peace & Love,
Sugah

[serenityqueen]

Hairgirl, I agree with you on a few things you said and then I also disagree with a few things.

First of all, I do believe you are Clean and Sober and in Recovery, just like I am. I have been on Methadone through a MMT the entire time I have been in Recovery. Sure, there are many people who disagree with me and say that I am still using. You know what? I came to realize that it isn't important what others think. What I know and feel in my heart and what the Good Lord above knows and has Blessed me with is all that matters. The only thing that is still the same about Judy today and the Judy I was when I was using is my physical characteristics. I can't say I look the same though. There was no life in my eyes, the smile was fake. I walked with my head hung low, my shoulders slumped in shame. I now have a sparkle in my eyes, my smile is genuine, I walk with my head held high and with a sense of pride in the positive changes I have made. I no longer lie, cheat, steal, manipulate, con . . . .others. I am proud of myself and have the pride of my Family and my new, true friends. I am an employable, trustworthy, dependable, honest, caring, loving, giving member of Society today.

After spending almost eight months sober, I decided to have a drink while out bowling with my family.Some say this is a relapse, and I guess that is correct.I never had a problem with alcohol, and it was not my intention to never drink again.When I went into treatment for opiates, I was told to not drink, go to meetings, etc. I accepted and did everything that was asked of me, and it made a huge positive impact on me.I am not looking to justify taking that drink, I just did it.I discussed it with my treatment team, and they seem to think I will use opiates again if I drink.I know there is no way in hell I will, but it is easier for everyone to assume the opposite.

This worries me. It is very easy to switch addictions. No one ever picked up a different chemical thinking to themselves that they are going to become addicted to it. My Sister didn't think that when she quit using cocaine and had a few drinks that it would take her life a few years later. For myself, I hated the taste of alcohol for many years, I never drank. Then one time when I had about 8 months into Recovery, I had a frozen drink at a Mexican Restaurant. I fell in love with that feeling and learned that the taste wasn't so bad after all. It was only a day or two later that I told myself that it was ok to just take a few Vicodin, I was in a lot of pain afterall.

And like Paul Harvey says, now you know the rest of the story.

Please, don't have even one more drink. This is way too risky. You have way too much to loose. You are enjoying all of the benefits of Recovery and seem to be happy. I urge you not to risk it again. It's not worth it. You've come a long way Baby!



God Bless,
Judy

[hairgirl]

I thank you Sugah and SerenityQueen, you both make allot of sense.To Sugah, what I meant in my comment you quoted, was that I abused substances because I did not care.I was so lonely, depressed, and hopeless that I knew doing the drug was going to cause an addiction- and I did not care about the aftermath.I think at the beginning, we all tell ourselves, we have control.It's only after we are in full blown addiction- that we start to realize we lost control the minute we picked up the drug.I totally admit I am an addict.I would not be here if I didn't think I was.
I know taking that drink was not wise.For a moment, I wanted to feel comfortable with my surroundings- so I drank.I completely understand what SerenityQueen said about her sister and herself, with trading one thing for another.I have done it with food, shopping, sex, drugs, etc.I rationalized by thinking, well I had a problem with eating, so should I stop eating? Duh-NO, Sooooooo I will handle rinking alcohol with the same theory-being smart- no overindulging.Obviously, I know they are too very different situations, but my addict thinking put me there.I am starting to realize it was not a good idea- because I am accepting the feedback from people like you guys.My being honest gives me the chance to get a deeper grip on the seriousness of this disease.That in itself, is a new and beautiful thing to acknowledge!

[ccgirl2]

Hairgirl, in my own opinion, I do believe you are still sober on suboxone.


As far as the drink goes, this one always gets a lot of different opinions. Only you know for sure if it's safe to have a drink or not. For me personally, I can have an ocassional drink. I have, maybe three since sobriety. Partly its because I don't particularly care for alcohol or its effects (I only drink foofy drinks when I do drink) and if I only have one very ocassionally, I don't think it's going to send me over the brink.

Again, I have to say, its a personal thing though. Only you know yourself.

[PeachyClean]

I don't consider that a relapse. Be careful though....> 8months is a good amount of clean time...> but at the same time very early in recovery. I would say "watch your thinking and motivation" behind your actions. I also agree that it's a personal thing and some addicts can drink responsibily and moderately without going back to their drug of choice and ruining all they have worked for. Still be careful.

[anvilhead]

hairgirl - i concur with the above posts - YOU have to do what is best and right for YOU at all times.....however.....drinking has often led people back down the road to hell......that being said....i consider myself in recovery.....from crack addiction....i don't do other drugs today.....ok, couple times a joint was passed my way (long story) and i took a courtesy toke, but i could smoke pot from now til thanksgiving and it would never lead me anywhere except the kitchen....i do drink beer tho....long as i stick to beer and stay off the hard liquor i do just fine......no getting dumb ideas and calling the dealer etc.......i learned the hard way about cocktails tho....(damn espresso martinis!)......see for me crack was tearing my life apart, EVERYTHING was way unmanageable and starting to fall apart....my hope at the time was just to not smoke crack today.....and everything else would work out.....i can't tell you clearly the last time i did that sh!t but i'm pretty sure it was last sept, maybe august and it was not that much and it sucked the big one......so that's like what 8 months? and my life today hardly resembles what it did a mere 8 months ago and nothing at all like it did a few years ago!!!! so i am WAY fine and way at peace with MY recovery today........nothing to hide, fully willing to accept any and all consequences and reaping the rewards of getting that damn pipe out of my fingers!!!

if at any time i felt myself slipping back, i would immediately address it. just this morning i was in the 7-11 looking for bandaids (sliced my finger opening cheese last nite...yes CHEESE...sigh) and they hide em pretty well, so i'm cruising the shelves and there's the damn chore boy - UGH. but it was a good UGH, a revolted UGH, and i was really grateful all i wanted was a bandaid for my boo boo...

[Gmoney]

Originally Posted by hairgirl

Some people get forced to join recovery because they did something wrong.

Addiction and desperation forced me into recovery, and what I did wrong was take that 1st one.

[emmer]

My situation is alot like Judy's. I don't like the taste of alcohol at all and never have,so it has never been a problem for me.
That being said, I have an abuse problem with dope of any sort and I can say that I use it more heavily when I'm stressed out.
Many,many people in this world have used booze to calm themselves down or to get to sleep.
I've had to ask myself... how long would it take for me to start tolerating this legal chemical alcohol? Probably not long at all, so I can't be drinking at all.

I've drank cough syrup(with codeine) by the bottle and most times hated the taste and started dry heaving right afterwards but did everything I could think of not to puke.

Ive taken handfuls of pills to get high and then felt like throwing up and many times did.

I haven't had this bad a reaction to booze so really, how far away am I from abuseing it?


My message is a bit scambled but my point is this. I'll abuse any chemical out there and just because I haven't had a problem with booze doesn't mean I won't.
It's almost certainly just a matter of time,so I just cant go there.

Please give this careful thought.

..Joe

[2ala2]

I believe it's insane to mess with alcohol if you're an addict!
I occasionally get delusions that maybe I can go back to drinking only beer, worst, I sometimes think " Hey, what if i'm not an addict anyway"?
Sharing these thoughts bring me back to reality. I was an insane addict for 24+ yrs.

[SoupQueue]

Hairgirl, I don't believe you should be made to feel guilty about having a drink at all. All drugs are different, and the pharmacological nature of each addiction varies drastically. I am sure you are experienced with alcohol, like most people are. If you have never had a problem with it in the past, there is no reason why you would have a problem now simply because you are recovering from an opiate. They are both downers, but they work very differently.
Anyone who takes substitute medications are still drug users, obviously. Moreover, most opiate/opioid type drugs work strongly at mu receptors and cause reinforcing reward, hence a supplementation is a new dependence ::
We see, then, people contending double standards. For anybody to declare that they use methadone as part of a MMT program and consider themselves clean - and then assert that under these circumstances an occasional adult beverage can easily be considered a path to self-destruction - is clearly misguided. With this analogy, walking through town could be considered a step backwards because you might bump into your old dealer and get tempted. A drink is a drink for some/most people, nothing more. Although maybe not destructive (because of legality and availability), a daily maintenance program is clearly a dependence.

[ccgirl2]

Sorry to hijack hairgirl, but Anvil, the part you said about pot leading you straight to the kitchen almost made me spit out my doritos and dip, LOL. The mental picture. Thanks. You made my day and let me know I have a kindred snacker out there!

[anvilhead]

LMAO ccgirl!!!

[Impurrfect]

I, too, agree that drinking for an addict is a personal thing. I know of many people who can have an occasional drink and be okay, and others who will abuse it from the start because of the way it makes them feel.

I have a drink occasionally, usually when out to dinner with a friend. I don't, however, drink when I'm feeling down or frustrated because I realize that I'm looking for something to numb my feelings and I don't want to go down that road again. My stepmom has a never-ending supply of lortabs and xanax and used to offer them to me, until I had said "no" enough and told her I don't want her to offer them anymore.

For me, I guess it's about vigilance. If I'm looking for something to numb my feelings, then I need to work harder on my recovery.

Hugs and prayers!

Amy

[wilbsoon]

Hairgirl,
Don't let anyone tell you that you're not clean cause your on Suboxone. You are an addict (like the rest of us) in recovery taking huge steps towards a better life. Today I spoke to a guy (through my line of work...) who has been on the Methadone program for over ten years. He still struggles but is on 20mg every morning which allows him to function in society. He goes to work everyday, watches the footy, has a defacto and has a 13 year old son with her whom he loves and does sport with all the time. Could he do this if he was still on the hammer (H), we both doubted it! So, while yes he has been trying for a long time, at least he has a life he considers good and is down to 20mg even though it's taken it's time. And yes, he is "there" and longs for the days when he won't need it anymore. The old adage, "Whatever works" is absolutely spot on and if suboxone works for you, then great, you ARE on the road to recovery.

As for a drink (talking about a single drink not getting wasted), only you can say why or what you feel... I had a drink with a friend the other night and had a single drink. He drank on and the next day I was fine. Although my councilor cautioned me not to substitute one addiction for another. As she is an addiction specialist (went through it herself years ago - nothing better than personal experience) I do take her advice. She said for me, personally, I can have a drink or two especially after a stressfull shift at work! but I had to wait ten days clean of codeine so that I didnt' get massive anxiety afterwards and go back "there".

However, I would also listen to the great posts by everyone else. They have the experience, they are are not putting you down, but just sharing what they went through and if their bad experience can stop you from going down that road and relapsing no matter how then you better listen. For me, so far and very early in recovery, I am doing okay and and am under control. But I have been warned and heed the warning to watch my actions, motives, reasons and have my great wife (in my ear - it's a good thing, really) to tell me what I'm doing and remind me of "how will you feel tomorrow?" I'd hate to think, "I wish I hadn't relapsed, back to friggen day ONE".

In about 8 hours I'm going for a surf at the crack of dawn with a good mate so I know I will feel great!
Wilbsoon.

[hairgirl]

Thank you all so much for your insight, it helps so much.I know where I don't want to be ever again, and like I said, today, I have a life I have dreamed of since childhood.I feel after wishing upon the stars for so long, my prayers were finally answered because I suffered enough to last two lifetimes.I wanted to learn new positive ways to deal with my emotions so I would not wreck my life today.I have changed many things in my life, to honor my family and myself.I am eternally grateful to "God" for my life, and I work hard to show others that life can change for the better, when we work for it.When things got better, at first, I did not know how to accept the happiness- because I was always in pain and miserable.It took a couple years to accept that it was real and I deserved it, and how to function in a "good life".It is as if you need to rewire your emotional self to understand that good things can and do happen to us.
I have even grown tired of the dysfunctional friendships, no matter how long they lasted.I have cut ties with many people because they were a threat to my life.I sometimes feel bad about it, but even though these people were cool or fun, they lead very destructive lifestyles and they like to pull me in, so I decided what I have at home and in my heart, and with all the hard work I have done- It was time to let them go, and never look back.I could never regret making these types of choices, they have shown to be very wise and positive.
If I do drink, it is with my family.I do not go to bars, or out with friends because I don't like the atmosphere.I feel safe with my family, and that is why I feel it is OK for me to have a drink with them.I am in no condition that I need to worry about doing something stupid.Just like I knew it was time to get help with my pill problem, if I thought for a second I needed assistance, I would definitely seek it out.

[kj3880]

HG,
I do believe that a person on Suboxyn or any other drug that a doctor prescribed for them and if taking it EXACTLY as prescribed is in recovery. You do what works for you. Suboxyn has been working for me, too. The only thing I take issue with is your
"I have a very strong will. Anytime I ever abused a substance it is because I wanted to" That statement is the only thing about your post that really scares me for you. That's because I really believe that as addicts we are truly powerless over our addiction. If you could simply use drugs when and as you choose, then you wouldn't be an addict, so you can do whatever you like. I assume that since you are here with us addicts, drugs must have caused you some type of problem. It doesn't take a court order for some of us to see that we are out of control. At least it didn't for me. (God bless all of you who did have to have a court order though. I know it could have ended up there for me too, I was just lucky, or maybe had less pain tolerance!) I found that I do not have control over my using. I can only control not taking that first percocet. I can't control what happens after that. Anyway, I think if it drinking and all really weren't causing you mental stress and confusion, you would just have a drink without commenting??? I want to keep it simple with as least amount of stress as possible during my early recovery, but that is just me, so I'm gonna not think about using alcohol for now. I'm taking it one day at a time with that. I never had a problem with drinking, but hey, I never had a problem with percocet until two years ago...so who knows what weird mind trips my head has in store for an addict like me. Be careful, and think about keeping it simple. Good Luck! I think we need it if we're going to try drinking after already having trouble with an addiction to opiates.
kj

[Barto]

I think it is easy to get confused with all the contradictory information about the definitions of “sober” and “clean” going around. There are certain drugs I pray I never take again because they have lead me into really big trouble. Alcohol is one (I’m an alcoholic). Cocaine is another. Believe it or not, I am having a helluva time with caffeine right now too. And nicotine once had me in its grip – it wasn’t going to land me in jail or keep me from working, but it had me hacking around the clock at an early age (of course my lungs had been abused by smoking cocaine for a while, too).

On the other hand I take prescribed benzodiazepines and do not need to abuse them. I don’t like the idea of taking them. I wish I didn’t need them. I am even going to try to taper off of them again. I don’t know if I’ll make it. My doctors say I should stay on them at least for now, and the benzos do seem to be doing their job.

I don’t know what to say about you having a drink. I think that if I could limit my drinks to about four a night, I would be out drinking tonight. But I was never able to limit my drinking at all. And I tried many times.

I just wanted to say you are not alone in your confusion. There is a lot of contradictory information out there. And I’m a bit confused myself despite that I’ve been “sober” for quite some time.

[windysan]

Hairgal,

In a week I'll be off dope 5 years. I did the psych unit, rehab, meetings for a coupla years. I drink beer on occasion and never want to go out and get a gallon of Old Crow and end up in a ditch. I don't have a problem with booze. I don't care for the hard liquor much but I'll drink some beer and wine. I've gotten hammered a few times but the next 3 days were just awful so I don't get hammered much. I'll have some beers with oysters, crawfish, whatever. They told me the same thing in the rehab...total abstinence. In the last 5 years I had surgery and got a poke of the poppy and some kinda benzo. Scared the hell outta me but I was fine the next day...no cravings...not even a thought about it. I had to take some tramadol for some severe pain and I took as prescribed...no problemo....but I never got a buzz off that stuff anyways. Anywho, I'd say be careful especially if you are early in your sobriety and whatnot. Rehab had me spooked about beer and I stayed away early on. I'd have one or two maybe once ever coupla months but I was spooked. Now I know what to stay away from. Benzos, opiates, muscle relaxers.........none of that unless I'm in so much pain I'm gonna die.

Good luck !

[wilbsoon]

Hairgirl,
I've had a good read of posts and a good think about my original reply. After some great advice I'm going to give going alcohol free a real go for the next few months. It is to easy to swap addictions. I now find when I'm stressed I think, "A few JD's would go down well" and I don't want to start craving that. It is hard for me cause everyone around me drinks socially, and by that I mean a wine/beer at dinner, a few beers at the pub over a few hours - not getting plastered. I personally know how good it feels to have a few and relax, kind of like a reward for doing so well, BUT going back on the tablets scares the hell out of me and if alcohol may trigger it then I don't want anything to do with it.

I'll give it a good go and let you know how I do with it all going around me...

[wilbsoon]

The words, "Playing with fire" is what brought this change of thought to me. Do you really want to be burnt again?

[hairgirl]

Well, finding out that I am pregnant has definitely changed things.Atleast I won't be worrying about this situation for a good eight or nine months.I guess everything happens for a reason.