?!Sobriety?!

[Intrinsic]

Hi, I'm Intrinsic, in 3 days, I am going to go from being a beer drinking, pot and cigarette smoking "controlled" addict, to a 100 percent clean living machine. Because of the way my mind works, I am setting myself a one month goal at first, because I have found that one day at a time just reminds me to keep watching the days pass. So I figure, in an attempt to keep myself accountable, I will be keeping as many people appraised of the situation as possible.
I thought maybe I could give a brief description of how I got to where I am, but even the abridge version of my story is longer than War and Peace. So lets start with where I am now, and why, after more than a decade of ups and downs with various forms of substance abuse, I am giving everything up.
The very fact that I am alive today is a miracle in and of itself. I have beaten meth addiction, I have survived multiple suicide attempts, as well as a few attempts on my life by outside forces. I have a career doing what I love and wouldn't trade my life for the world. I drink daily, not a lot on a daily basis, usually 3-4 beers, maybe a shot or two if somebody comes by, more on the weekends because living where I live, thats what people do. I smoke pot daily, sometimes hourly. I am a big advocate for medical marijuana, and I truly believe that the plant is a gift from God. The good it has done me has far outweighed the bad, and I can't see an issue with it. People who claim they are addicted to pot, need to just put the blunt down. If you smoke pot to get intoxicated, then yeah, seek treatment. For me, a few hits a day calms my mind and body. I don't really consider the substance use I partake in to have many negative consequences on my life, short of a hangover here and there.
The reason I have decided to get sober is not for fear of my health, job, family...etc. It is to find out how strong a person I really am. I want to see how I feel at the end of one month with no substances. I look forward to this experiment, and I hope that someone can learn from my first hand account of what to expect if you go from having drinks with friends, smoking pot, and being a fiend for nicotine and just stop. So Hi from Intrinsic, and I hope you guys will help me along on this journey.

[Phinneas]

Hi, Intrinsic. Welcome to SR!

I moved your thread from the NA forum here to the Substance Abuse forum because the NA forum is about total abstinence from all mind and mood altering drugs using the steps, fellowship and program of NA. That's obviously not what you are doing here.

To be candid, I think you will find that many here will not support your belief that weed (medical or not) is good. We are here to recover from our addictions from all sorts of things, like alcohol, meth, pot, opiates... you name it.

Some of us, like me, know that addiction is a disease. I say know because it is not something I think is true, not something I believe is true, but something I KNOW is true based on my own, personal lived experience. I also know that pot is indeed as addicting as any of the other substances we know about today.

It's totally fine if you don't agree with me. We are not here to change your mind. Not at all. Just please know that this site is dedicated to recovery - not experiments of mind over matter. We have found that will power is no match for real addiction. You may find that to be true for you, too. If you do, then you are an addict / alcoholic and there is help available. If you CAN walk away from the substances you mentioned, then you are NOT an addict and perhaps the support you are seeking can be found elsewhere - a counselor or mental health professional, a doctor, another support group, etc.

I wish you the best. ANYONE who is seeking to be clean and sober, no matter how they do it or what they believe is welcome here.

[angelgirl]

Hello, Welcome to SR..

Well, I hope that you find much support here, in the month that you are looking to stay clean. I believe you will. There are many open minded people here. I don't completely understand, what you are saying, but none the less, it is my hopes that after living a month clean and sober, that you may see that you find that this is a much better way to live. That dulling your senses with weed daily, just may not be needed. But you must find that out for yourself, no one else can make you believe that. I don't say that to sound by any means judgmental, just truthful ,, you may decide that you don't want to live that way anymore..

As far as medical marijuana, we are not here to debate that, just to support one another. This is a wonderful site, with alot of wonderful supportive people. Keep coming back..

Prayers our new friend,,
Becky

[Intrinsic]

Well thanks for the responses, and you're both right. We may not see mj in the same light. But I also believe that at the end of the day recovery all comes down to the willpower of the person. God is good, but he gave us free will for a reason. It is the choices we have all made that have lead us down the path of addiction, and whereas acknowledging that we are not in control is a good thing, it is a good thing to realize that in all aspects of our lives. Our days are not our own and when God wants us he is going to take us. And please understand, I am in no way demeaning the 12 steppers, or trying to make a mockery of the obvious good work they have done for millions. I have been to meetings, I have completed longer stints of soberiety, I just KNOW, and I say this from my own personal experience, not something I believe. That the people who are long time steppers, rely on the meetings to keep themselves sober. When I quit doing meth, and believe me, shooting as much speed into your arm as I was when I quit, is the definition of addiction. When I quit, it was a pain, probably the worst feeling in the world. But I didn't give up, I just knew that if I went back to using the results would be the same. So yes, addiction is a disease, but denying the fact that within each and every person is a God given free will to say, "I'm not going to do that anymore." is, in my eyes why the relapse rate is so high. Meetings are fantastic for newly sober people, having a support group is fantastic, but at the end of the night, who is responsible for YOUR sobriety? And I understand the whole slipping back in with the same crowd thing, I understand the boredom associated with being a newly sober person. What I can't wrap my head around, is how people can say "its such a better life being sober.", but still, years after leaving the substances behind, letting the drug still control your day by going to meetings, calling your sponsor...etc. Those, to me, are not the actions of someone who truly wants to fully recover. In my eyes, that is trading one addiction for another. If it calms you, nurtures you, and makes you feel better until the next meeting, then how is that any different than why most people, myself included, started doing dope/alcohol in the first place? Everybody has their views, and I'm sure mine will anger quite a few people, but hey, maybe there are more people like me somewhere.


All the best.

Trin

[Peter]

Hi 'Trin.

I am a recovering addict, clean today by the Grace of my Higher Power and the Programme of NA.

Nothing you say has angered me, simply because the opinions you express are entirely your own . I do not agree with some of what you say, however I can understand why you might say some of them.

I understand why you might feel that 12 Steppers are substituting one addiction for another because of the devotion that some of us have for going to meetings. The truth is that the same energy that was devoted to our using has to be matched with an equal (if not stronger) devotion to recovery if we are to break away from the imprisonment of drugs.

Only by an equal and opposite reaction was I able to accomplish this. So yes,during those early days of recovery when the cravings gnawed at my belly and the fear of uncertainty cast it's shadow over me,I had an almost obsessive devotion to attending meetings and working with my sponsor,because it was the only place that felt safe enough for me at the time.

Recovery has taught me that i have to do what it takes to survive, so if that meant switching my obsession with drugs for a devotion to NA. Then i feel I was better off taking my chances with NA.

I found NA many years ago and although i still maintain my gratitude and my loyalty to the programme, I no longer attend meetings as frequently as i did.

Why? Because recovery is about growth and about getting my life back. NA taught me how to do that. I am free from my addiction to drugs and I am able to make healthy choices and decisions about my life today. I have grown beyond the point where I feel the need to be at a meeting every night or to call my sponsor every hour of the day.

However , that being said, I have to remember the Principle of Humility and recognize that not everybody is at the same level of recovery and I must exercise restraint in judging my fellow brothers and sisters in NA if after three or four years they still feel the need to be at a meeting everynight. I know not the extent of their pain or even what I think is best for them. I can only pray that they and all recovering people come to experience freedom.

[Intrinsic]

I appreciate the story, and like I say, for some people it does wonders. Thanks for sharing your story. But like I say, your higher power and the support of the programme were the tools YOU used to get and stay clean. I have just found that steppers seem to leave out what I find to be the most important part of the road to true recovery. Themselves. I am not saying that being addicted to substances is the same thing as being devoted to meetings. I just believe that acknowledging there is a higher power and He/She is the only one that controls your addiction is a small part of the equation. You eventually have to find the strength in yourself to fight the fight.
At some point, you yourself have to take personal responsibility for your addictions and face that demon yourself. I have been clean from meth for 6 years now, and I still associate with the people I used to, some of whom are still using. My life is back on track and through my own power and the love of my God, I can abstain from my old behaviors. Getting your life on track, to me, means that you are free from any obstructions to who you are. I still have my urges to do the drug, I could give into it easier than anything. But the reminder of the shithole my life was in, combined with the looks and actions of the people in my life who still use, are enough reminder for me to stay off the stuff. Its just a personal thing for me. Now, when I first got sober obviously I didn't hang out with the users in my life, because that would have been a negative influence on my newly found sobriety. The church I attend and am the technical director of today is filled with NA/AA people. We have had hours of conversations discussing how we differ in our views of sobriety, and they, only after knowing my entire story, commend me on my self-control. I commend them on their willingness to be in a public forum talking about their struggles. I can see the benefits, and I know what they are, but the one thing that irks me is that no matter how long we talk, they deny their own part in their sobriety, always thanking the program, or their sponsor for getting themselves through the hard time. I just think its time people started realizing that whereas you can't find all the strength you need to beat an addiction by yourself, YOU are the key to your sobriety. It was this realization that was the final piece in the puzzle for me. That yes, I had a great support group, I had great external tools to help me on my way, but when I realized that I could hold my head up high because I was free of the physical and emotional strain of my addiction, that it was me. I took the steps to better myself. That may sound selfish, but it is the one thought that has kept me striving for more, and better ways to live. Shoot, being 6 years clean from meth is part of what has given me the strength to try getting rid of the rest of the vices in my life before they become a clear and present danger to me. So all I am saying really is that people who can maintain sobriety don't give themselves enough credit. YOU made the decision to be clean, YOU used the tools to get clean, be proud of YOU.
Oh, and since I don't think I explained this all that well, The 30 day goal is not a 30 day sobriety test at which point I will be back to using, it is my initial goal. But I ramble. Thanks for the dialogue as usual.

[windysan]

weed makes me paranoid. can't smoke the stuff.

[best]

Originally Posted by Intrinsic

... I am giving everything up. Wise move
The very fact that I am alive today is a miracle in and of itself.... I am a big advocate for medical marijuana, and I truly believe that the plant is a gift from God. The good it has done me has far outweighed the bad, and I can't see an issue with it. People who claim they are addicted to pot, need to just put the blunt down. If you smoke pot to get intoxicated, then yeah, seek treatment. For me, a few hits a day calms my mind and body. I don't really consider the substance use I partake in to have many negative consequences on my life, short of a hangover here and there.

So you say you are giving up the pot as well?
As for medical mj... if under a Dr's care and given via an RX, it would be a legal substance. If taken at will by a person who thinks it does them some good, it is an illegal substance. There are many things in this world that can make me feel good but that doesn't mean they are good for me.

As for your 30 day challenge... I hope you do well and learn much. Where you say you are surrounded by NA people, you can learn much from them as well. I have found that the 12 steps of recovery that they use are a great tool for all parts of life. At the end of your 30 day challenge, maybe you can challenge yourself to work through the 12 steps and see what you can learn from them.

[Intrinsic]

Originally Posted by best

So you say you are giving up the pot as well?
As for medical mj... if under a Dr's care and given via an RX, it would be a legal substance. If taken at will by a person who thinks it does them some good, it is an illegal substance. There are many things in this world that can make me feel good but that doesn't mean they are good for me.

I am not under the care of a dr. and it's not prescribed. I am under the advisement of a psychiatrist that agrees with my views on medical marijuana(he was my doctor before hand, we just got on the subject one day because I was a little high when I got to his office. But for people like my 91 year old grandfather, it beats the hell out of opiate addiction for pain management. But thats not really the point of my thread. I am giving up pot for the first time in 13 years. Save for a few weeks here and there and of course any time I was in jail.

Originally Posted by best

As for your 30 day challenge... I hope you do well and learn much. Where you say you are surrounded by NA people, you can learn much from them as well. I have found that the 12 steps of recovery that they use are a great tool for all parts of life. At the end of your 30 day challenge, maybe you can challenge yourself to work through the 12 steps and see what you can learn from them.

I am surrounded by them, at my church. I love and pray for those people everyday. But in their lives I can still see the look of pain and struggle in their lives. I have been to many many meetings, I have talked to a lot of struggling recovering addicts that are in 12 step programs and I just always get the same feeling I get when you try to have a discussion with a fundamentalist Christian. It is their belief that without the program, they are nothing and there is no talking them out of it. God sent christ to give us life and give it more abundantly. So if you are controlled by a step program and rely on that for your strength, then your foundation isn't ever going to be strong enough to deal with life on your own. As I stated before, in my eyes, that is trading one addiction for another. I can't wrap my head around the idea that being in meetings and having a sponsor is the only way to beat addiction. E.g: my most recent friend to come out of rehab and go into meetings, he is 10 monthsish sober, and he still talks about how without the meetings and his sponsor he wouldn't be able to live a sober life. He has cut off all of his friends, his family(because they drink), and everyone that meant something to him in his life, just because he is afraid of relapse. In my view cutting off who you were does the opposite of hold you accountable for your actions. I can see the faces of the people who were with me through my journey, I talk to them, I hang out with them and watch them put **** up their nose, in their arms...etc. That's what gives me my strength. Plus, if people in recovery hide behind anonymous meetings, then the world isn't seeing that it can be done. I have never feared relapse because I have taken responsibility for the fact that I am an addict. I don't put it on my meetings, my sponsor or my family. Also, I think blaming relapse on "the disease" is a cop out. Yes, addiction is a disease, but if you are properly treated, you can live with the disease and not let it get the best of you. I know that if I were to go out right now and go hang out with my old friends and I partook in doing meth, that I SCREWED UP. I wouldn't do drugs because I am an addict, I am an addict because I do drugs. It just seems to me that 12 stepping your way to sobriety, if sucessful, thats great, but I think a lot of the people who use the 12 steps also see step 1 as the greatest thing ever, because it takes the responsibility off the user and onto the addiction. I just think that as addicts, there should be more focus on self, and less on being powerless. For me it was a feeling of powerlessness that lead to my addiction in the first place. So if you want an equal and opposite reaction, take charge of your actions, be a man/woman, accept the help that is ALLLLLL around you and run with it. Chalking your addiction up as nothing more than a disease can be a good thing, but the consequences of that lack of responsibility for your actions, can also have dire results.

[best]

You bring up some points I have thought on myself. What I have found... without Christ, I would always have that look of pain and struggle in my life. With a program or without.
What I also have found... we are each on our own ladder of growth. Some are at a prechristian point on the ladder, some are a baby step stage on the ladder, and some have crossed into a solid food stage on the ladder. Each one of us can stay on the ladder rung we are on, no matter where we are in our growth...
Just as each of us can stay active in our addictions. I can't stop or force another up the ladder nor can you. I need leave that job in God's hands and just remain available with the message of the Gospel for a time when people ask. Recovery is the same... we can't force recovery, we can only carry the message that recovery is available and do-able.
When a person gets hungry or thursty for more, they will climb to the next rung on the ladder.

[best]

Originally Posted by Intrinsic

It just seems to me that 12 stepping your way to sobriety, if sucessful, thats great, but I think a lot of the people who use the 12 steps also see step 1 as the greatest thing ever, because it takes the responsibility off the user and onto the addiction. I just think that as addicts, there should be more focus on self, and less on being powerless.

If you were to work through the 12 steps, you would see that around step 4 you start working on self and by the time you reach step 12, you are starting to think about helping others.
If you like... Here is a listing of how the steps can line up with the bible as well.

This comes from Alcoholics Victorious



12 Steps of Alcoholics Anonymous & Biblical References

1. We admitted we were powerless over alcohol ... that our lives had become unmanageable.

"I know that nothing good lives in me, that is, in my sinful nature. For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out." (Romans 7:18)

2. Came to believe that a Power greater than ourselves could restore us to sanity.

"... my grace is sufficient for you, for my POWER is made perfect in weakness." (2 Corinthians 12:9)
..for it God Who works in you to will and act according to His good purpose.. (Phil. 2:13)

3. Made a decision to turn our will and our lives over to the care of GOD as we understood Him.

"... If anyone would come after me, he must deny himself and take up his cross daily and follow me." (Luke 9:23**)

4. Made a searching and fearless moral inventory of ourselves.

"Let us examine our ways and test them, and let us return to the Lord." (Lamentations 3:40)

5. Admitted to GOD, to ourselves and to another human being the exact nature of our wrongs.

"Therefore confess your sins to each other and pray for each other so that you may be healed." (James 5:16)

6. Were entirely ready to have GOD remove all these defects of character.

"If you are willing and obedient, you will eat the best from the land." (Isaiah 1:19)

7. Humbly asked Him to remove all our shortcomings.

"Humble yourselves before the Lord, and He will lift you up." (James 4:10)

8. Made a list of all persons we had harmed and became willing to make amends to them all.

"Therefore, if you are offering your gift at the altar and there remember that your brother has something against you, leave your gift there in front of the altar. First go and be reconciled to your brother; then come and offer your gift." (Matthew 5:23, 24**)

9. Made direct amends to such people wherever possible, except when to do so would injure them or others.

"Give and it shall be given you. A good measure, pressed down, shaken together and running over, will be poured into your lap. For with the measure you use, it will be measured to you." (Luke 6:38**)

10. Continued to take personal inventory and when we were wrong, promptly admitted it.

"For by the grace given me I say to every one of you: Do not think of yourself more highly than you ought, but rather think of yourself with sober judgment, in accordance with the measure of faith GOD has given you." (Romans 12:3)

11. Sought through prayer and meditation to improve our conscious contact with GOD as we understood Him, praying only for knowledge of His will, and the power to carry that out.

"May the words of my mouth and the meditation of my heart be pleasing in your sight, O Lord, my Rock and my Redeemer." (Psalm 19:14)
"Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly..." (Col. 3:16)

12. Having had a spiritual awakening as the result of these steps, we tried to carry this message to alcoholics, and practice these principles in all our affairs.

"Brothers, if someone is caught in a sin, you who are spiritual should restore him gently. But watch yourself, or you also may be tempted. Carry each other's burdens, and in this way you will fulfill the law of Christ." (Galatians 6:1-2)

[Intrinsic]

Yeah man, I have read the book, I know them by heart. But step one should have some kind of ammendment to it. Something like "1. We admitted we were powerless over alcohol ... that our lives had become unmanageable." a) Because we lost our personal strength. I think most of the time, when an addiction takes hold, it is because we are too weak to deal with our lives, so we turn outward to a substance to make it all better. It is not that we are powerless over the substance, it is that the situations and the substance(s) have beaten us down to where we forget we were once a strong, loved person. And like I say, I don't mean to ruffle feathers here. But rearranging the steps to work on yourself should be higher on the list. Admitting powerlessness is a pretty much defeatist additude going into one of the hardest fights you will ever have to go through. I'm sayin, "I was powerless before my addiction, but I am ready to find the person I was before this happened.". Maybe I am wrong, it has been a long while since I read the book. I might pick that back up tonight in preparation. Also with this 30 day thing, I will be video, text, and picture blogging the entire thing over on Blogger. As a guide for people who don't want to do meetings, for whatever reason, and would like to see what to expect more than anything else. I am looking at it as a practical guide to getting sober. How to pass the days and how to fight temptation. Because I think the hardest thing about beating addictions is finding what to do with your time after you quit.

[best]

I think you will find out many things on your 30 journey. I am sure what you blog will be a help to many as well.

As for step one... Keep It Simple may be why it reads as it does.
We can add ammendments to ammendments and where each of us are different, we can add personal ammendments to those as well.

[Peter]

As I think someone may have pointed out somewhere on this forum: "There is nothing Powerless about Step One"

" were Powerless over addiction...." is used in the past tense .

I was Powerless over my addiction, but now as a result of working The Steps I have the Power to manage my life.

[windysan]

dang them 12 steps is complicated and whatnot and they require a belief in the supernatural which i have a real hard time understanding.

[Intrinsic]

I know the supernatural aspect of it is a hurdle. As I stated before I am an advocate for medical marijuana, and 98% of the people in my "world" aren't willing to admit that. I think thats part of the problem. The 2 percent are the ones really enacting change. But thats something everyone has to come to on their own. As far as weed making you noided windy, maybe its the higher power trying to get your attention
Secondly Peter, yeah, I see that, but admitting powerlessness before beginning a recovery program I think looks very attractive to people because it is almost a cast off of responsibility for their actions. Not being directly responsible for their addictions is an easy, safe place to start. But recovery is not easy, nor is it safe. Its a battlefield, and being powerless, even before battle, can end horribly. Not that it does, but it sets you up to fall back on that powerlessness. Because if I realized that I was powerless before my addiction before, it becomes easier the second, third...etc time. I hope everybody has seen the episode of south park where Stans dad joins AA. He relapses a few times and his only excuse is "I AM POWERLESS BEFORE ALCOHOL.". that doesn't sit well with me. It puts the responsibility for YOUR actions back on the alcohol, and not the person who consumed it.
Bottom line: Do whatever you feel will help you recover, but at least have the balls to admit that YOU were the one who lead yourself down this path. The alcohol/substances didn't make you drink/smoke/eat/ingest them. You did that. You had the power to pick the glass up, you have the power to put it back down. Don't blame the substance for your shortcomings.

[windysan]

Yep, I'm the one who put that garbage in my body. I think the reefer does something to my nervous system that noids me. I used to smoke tons but I quit for a coupla years then when I started back smoking it noided me. I ain't got nothing against the reefer it just ain't for me no more.

[Cindi R]

I, can relate to a some of which you speak...
as in, why does the program work for some and does not for others?
I believe that some of us make a conscious decision to allow the program to work.
I am a recovering meth user...clean since 8/15/01.
For 6 years I bought into the program, lock, stock and barrel.
However, I began to find that I had some issues with the program and the people and found that it wasn't exactly healthy for me to attend meetings quite so often anymore.
For one thing, there were problems with the anonymity...
There were the "relationship" issues...
and there seemed to be a movement towards promoting the black book instead of the blue book.

[ex D-Boy]

Originally Posted by windysan

Yep, I'm the one who put that garbage in my body. I think the reefer does something to my nervous system that noids me. I used to smoke tons but I quit for a coupla years then when I started back smoking it noided me. I ain't got nothing against the reefer it just ain't for me no more.

ya man i totally hear you on that, i used to smoke all day long during my highschool years, then once i started getting into pain killers and heroin i couldnt go back to pot, made me bug out like crazy while on it. Most dopeheads i meet say the same thing, kinda weird ;\\

[Aa_vark]

Hi Int,

Im an addict. I couldnt smoke crack like a gentleman. lol... i tried drinking to control my pot smoking, pot to control my drinking, perscriptions to manage my depression, drinking to come down from crack binges...throwing dirt on bums to feel better (a cleaner bum...) etc...

Im recovering and have surrendered all my rights to drug and alcohol... working steps theese days. well, years...

2 comments for you. Well, 3.. \

\1 welcome to SR. Please keep contributing.

\2 Its pretty difficult to demean 12 steppers. Personally my dignity is intack, i have been given a solution to stay sober and live a better life then i was.

\3 consider the amount of time and energy you are expending on proving to us that you are in control of your addiction.

I hope you make it 30 days. Sincerely.

Listen, if it doesnt work out, youre welcome at 12 step meetings. You said that for some people it works wonders. Well, from the inside, you're right. Everyone i know in my groups who keeps coming, and does the work, stays clean. And we can help others (any one) who wants that enough. I am responsible when anyone reaches out for help...

[emmer]

Don't bame the substance? ...Tell that to the guys who robbing a bank so he can shoot up for another day or the gal whos turning tricks to to support her habit.

I think that your trying to somehow justifiy smoking pot... maybe not but from where I sit that what I'm seeing.
I don't like everything about NA but if I don't follow a program that w