Marius

I've been using methadone recreationally for the a little over the last 6 months or so. I usually take a biscuit, or a biscuit and a half 3 to 5 times a week. I've gone over a week or better of not taking any during this span, and I've never felt any withdraw symptoms. My question is, is this strange or odd not to feel any WD symptoms?

bval

No, it's probably not that odd if this is your bodies first regular exposure to opioids over the past six months.

But I gotta warn you, you're messing with one of the most addictive substances known to man, and you're laying the groundwork for a real problem down the line if you keep using it recreationally like you're doing.

It can catch you real suddenly, too. All of a sudden you 'come into' a bunch of it, end up staying on it for a week or two straight, and then BAM ... massive withdrawals when you run out. It happened almost EXACTLY that way for me with oxycodone, and there's no way methadone is any less likely to grab someone the same way...

You are playing with fire my friend, I advise you to put down the matches before you get burned. Take it from someone who's been there, done that. You DO NOT wanna get hooked on narcotics ... its a very bad scene.

Marius

I've been doing various painkillers for about two years now. I started off doing percocets and vicodin, then I started with the methadone. My use has never gotten out of hand, I've been able to balance things so far. I know a lot of poeple who are able to do the same as me, but there are others who get hooked, and get lost in the addiction.

bval

Yes, well some of that apparent variability may come to genetics, but in my experience, the people that are 'wired' to enjoy opiate drugs (and hence, those who are prone to use it 'recreationally') are the exact people that are in the most danger of eventually getting hooked.

I can tell you that in my personal case, the first time I took painkillers to get high on was about 1993. 4 percodan over a 4 hour period had me whacked out of my tree. My use of them for that purpose very slowly escalated from about once a month to one night of every weekend (and sometimes the next day if I had enough) by about the year 2000. Then I was introduced to sniffing Oxycontin, used to get 20's (four percs worth of basically pure oxycodone) that I got for $5 a piece. Started messing with those every weekend pretty much, typically going through maybe 2-5 20's a weekend (8-20 percs).

Then one day in 2001 (fully 8 YEARS after I FIRST started messing with these drugs as a means to get high) I got a chance to buy like 20 80mg OC's for dirt cheap, thinking "Hey, this will last me MONTHS!" ... well, they lasted me about 10 days. I was suddenly doing the equivalent of 32 percs a day ... and I did that for 10 days straight.

During that time, I started going to work for the first time high on narcotics. For eight years, it had been a weekend thing for me. Then it changed overnight with that one purchase.

When those ran out was when I had my FIRST EVER noticeable withdrawal effects, the kind where I got online to research WTF was WRONG with me, could *this* have been caused by my little 'run' I just did?

Well, despite finding out that YES, that was EXACTLY what was wrong with me, my use slowly escalated from there to the point where I was doing 3-5 80's a DAY (48-80 percs a day, which was a $150/day habit) by mid-2003. This habit then caused me to lose my $70K a year job, caused me to have to sell off my condo, completely destroyed my (what WAS) excellent credit, got me into 10's of 1000's of dollars worth of debt, much of which I still owe.

So lemme tell ya my friend, I know all about the 'balancing' and keeping a lid on this problem, and the feeling that you're somehow 'special' or 'different' because you didn't go off the deep end for *some period* of use, and that because of this you're somehow going to be sorta 'forever in the clear'. Heck, I'll NEVER be one of those addicts, RIGHT?

Yeah, right.

So bottom line what I'm telling you here is this: Sooner or later, I *promise* you, IF you keep f***ing around with all these drugs that work EXACTLY like Heroin works, you're gonna end up in the same boat as those lost souls you speak of.

There are few things I can tell you with certainty in life, but this is one of those things.

STOP messing around with the oral versions of Heroin, or you're gonna end up very sorry one day.

dredict

i wish i could have spoke with you bv when i started messing around with pills. Thinking the same thing that i could never end up a pill popper like the people i knew who were. I use to think they were just acting like babies when they didnt have there pills. always telling them when i would take them that i wouldnt get addicted, when they tried to warn me. And all it took 4 me was about a 10-11 day run on some vikes. I would take them in the morning b4 school. Eventually i started taking the methadones. I thought methadone was a wonderdrug because i could take a way less milligram dose and it would last me 24 hours. well thats the shity thing about methadone once u do have to withdrawal, it lasts about 2-3 times as long as it would to w/d from morphine, vikes, or oxys. Methadone, or any opiates are very dangerous. when you think you can use them recreationally and b safe your wrong!!!
Just remember all it takes is one f*** up that you probably wont even realize at the time and your hooked.

exjunky

On a lot of the web forums that celebrate opiate abuse (this not being one) there is always a big discussion about "chipping" ... one of them even has a place called the "Chipper's Corner" where addicts discuss this practice.

For those who don't know, "chipping" is defined as doing opiates from time to time, some days high, some days clean. The logic is that if you do it this way, you'll never actually develop a habit. This is always done by self-enforcing some strict rules, e.g. "every other day" or "every third day". But the most common rule is "I will only use on the weekends."

It sounds logical at first: if you only use on the weekend, how can you possibly get addicted to the point of going through withdrawals?

I'm here to blow the lid wide open on "chipping" and why it doesn't work. I've never actually chipped myself (I have far too little self-control to enforce rules upon myself) but I've spoken to enough would-be chippers learn why it is folly.

OK, so you start off using on the weekend, and Monday comes, and you feel fine. You think you've cheated the system somehow. Then you do it again next weekend, and still Monday shows no withdrawals. But after you keep this up for a while you start to realize that Monday's really SUCK. Not full blown withdrawals, but let's call it "very lethargic depression".

Eventually Mondays start to suck so bad you find yourself calling in sick to work or otherwise dodging your responsibilities. The temptation to take "just a little bit" on Monday is overwhelming. What's more, when Friday comes you positively cannot wait to get started.

After a while, Mondays keep getting worse and worse, and soon the chipper finds that Tuesdays are no picnic either. It's not uncommon for the chipper to suddenly redefine "the weekend" to include Mondays and Fridays, in which case they find themselves hurting for three days a week while they are high for the other four. And then those three clean-days start to close in on themselves until they are using every day, and they discover that if they stop you are tossed into full-blown withdrawals. So much for cheating the system.

The moral of the this story is: DON'T CHIP. It never works. Nobody I've ever spoken to has reported success playing that game, at least not for very long. The only way to avoid opiate addiction is to avoid opiates.

Marius

Thanks for the input guys, I will take your advice into account. Right now though I beleive I have my addiction in check. There have been times in my life when I've let the addiction to control me. I was an alcoholic for a while, for instance I would buy a case of beer on a friday after work, and instead of just enjoying myself and drink at a normal pace, I would have to drink the entire case by early saturday. Now days I'm able to buy a case and have it last me the entire week.:comfort

this_sucks

bvaljalo -- are you still out there? we are in the same area and you mentioned neurontin helped you with withdrawals? how much did you take? i took one pill today just to see but it isnt helping at all -- suggestions? suggestions on other meds to (not the suboxone ones) help me sleep? tylenol pm just makes it WAY WORSE -- im sleepy AND crawling out of my skin. i cant be sick this week. i have so much to do -- i cant. i need help!

Marius

When I was withdrawing from alcohol I was having major insomnia. The only thing that helped me sleep was ambien!!

bval

Yeah, tylenol pm is not strong enough to put you down, and taking more of them than is directed just has the opposite effect of the one you want.

Try unisom or anything else with doxylamine succinate rather than diphenhydramine (benadryl, tylenol pm) if you can't get hold of some prescription sleep aids.

not sure what your total situation is, you really haven't shared much of your story, but honestly ... trying to kick dope in the middle of a busy week ... it's really not a recipe for success my friend. there IS NO CURE for how you're going to be feeling OTHER than dope of some kind. Period. They best you can hope for is to take it from completely intolerable to just barely tolerable ... but you still ain't gonna be in any kinda shape to be 'productive'.

And by the way ... the position you're in right now, how you're feeling, what you're going through? REMEMBER THIS my friend. THIS RIGHT HERE ... is exactly WHY regularly using opiates is an impossible situation to manage.

Get off the mofo's, and stay off them, and you'll NEVER BE IN THIS SITUATION EVER AGAIN. Cause right now, you're pretty well knackered ain'tcha?

bval

BTW, Marius ... thanks for dropping in

How is that 'keeping the addiction in check' thing working out for you ... inquiring minds want to know?

Haven't had any narcotics since back on the 19th of November, right?

Just put 'em down like it wasn't NOTHING, didn't you?

Got's the shiznit under CON-trol, right, baby?

Like it ain't no THANG ... I bet, eh?

exjunky

Part of the reason why it sometimes seems like methadone isn't producing withdrawals is that it has such an incredibly long half-life. 24 hours or so, isn't it? So if you take 100mg of methadone on Monday, on Tuesday it's sort of like you're on 50mg automatically, and Wednesday you're on 25mg, etc. It's like a naturally enforced taper. But a real quick taper, for sure.

Now if you totally quit then you DO feel withdrawals, but they kick in late. It doesn't seem so bad the next day, but after three of four days they start to get worse and worse. And they last a loooooong time--weeks later you still are hurting. Most junkies I've spoken to say they that methadone withdrawal is considerably worse than heroin withdrawal.

Marius

Hey buddy!

I didn't do any for like 10 days, that was most over Thanksgiving, didn't crave them or have any problems, I'm still taking biscuits a max of three days a week.

Marius

I know for a FACT my use of methadone is under my control. My addiction problem has been ALCOHOl, and that is why I've stopped drinking going on two weeks now. Don't kid yourself, everyone who dabbles in drugs iis not an addict, all of our stories are different........... When I drink, I have no control over my addiction, when I pop a few biscuits, I'm in control, I know it.

JackieG

Hi Marius

In my experience I have found that addiction is addiction. It doesn't really matter what I use, be it booze or heroin or crack. I can pretty much get addicted to anything.

For me any substance/activity that I use for the effect is a problem.

Lots of love
Jackie

bval

Glad to hear you have the situation totally under your control.

I never kid myself, and I never said you were an addict.

What I told you was, you keep messing with methadone, you will become one.

And I'll tell you one more thing, if alcohol is your drug of choice, and you keep taking methadone on a regular basis ... someday, you will drink again. And someday soon after that, you'll be hooked on both methadone AND alcohol.

And one day shortly after that, you'll wake up one day and wish you'd listened to what I was trying to tell you.

If you don't stop f***ing with methadone, you are going to get hooked. It's a scientific, irrefutable fact, and don't I care what you think you 'know about yourself' or whatever ... 'who you are' is irrelevant in this equation. Actually I take that back ... being an alcoholic already increases your chance of getting hooked on opiates pretty dramatically from a statistical point of view, actually...

But I'll admit, when I was in your shoes, I wouldn't have listened to anyone about this subject either ... pretty much thought I had everything under control until one day I woke up and ... didn't anymore.

So ... if you can go ten days, NO PROB, then ... why did you pick them up again and start doing them 3x a week again, may I ask? Does that really seem like the WISE course of action, given you're trying to get off the booze? Do you honestly think you're HELPING your cause of not drinking by taking METHADONE? Tell you what, why don't you ask ANY medical professional in the ENTIRE WORLD if they recommend that course of action.

Lemme know if you find one that says "Yeah, that makes total sense, do THAT why don't you!"

And then ... I tell you what, I'll shut up about it, you have my word ...