Gmoney

Kinda, but kinda not. It's complicated, and the only way to discern between the two is to study the literature and history of each.

One way the difference can be seen (and a very important one) is in the wording of the 1st Step. In AA, the first step focuses on alcoholism as a disease, whereas, in NA the first step focuses on addiction as a disease. Although most of the principles of the 1st step in either program are common (i.e., surrender, honesty, humility, open-mindedness, etc...), NA broadens it's perspective. In NA, the substance isn't the focus and all addicts are welcomed - and I'm willing to bet AA's founder didn't have NA's view in mind. Both programs have what is called a "singleness of purpose." I could go on, but I think you get the point.

If you want you can read this bulletin about the relationship between AA & NA:

http://www.na.org/bulletins/bull13-r.htm

jane_668

Why did you get off Methadone as long as you were on your stabilized dose.I guess because evantually you wanted to be clean.Anyway,each one of us has his own perspective and I believe that there's no one best way for all.That's way I don't agree with NA & AA methods.

Gmoney

Far be it from me to attempt to persuade anyone, one way or another, but I am curious as to why those who avoid AA/NA/CA or 12 step recovery do so.

What do you see as their "methods?"

windysan

Step 1: don't do dope
Steps 2-12: see step 1

triniteec

I love you guys! There are so many opinions out there! All I know is I do count my days (4 years now) because I can't believe it myself and it shows how far I've come! If you do smoke weed or have a glass of wine you are not clean. (thats MY opinion) If you are taking drugs prescribed by an MD (and not abusing them) then thats o.k. I choose not to take anything with alcohol in it because I know one drug might lead to another. Thats my 2 cents..........................

catcrazy

love it windy..follow that philosophy myself..simpler for me..

Zencat

I’m one of those who collected so many sobriety dates that they lost there meaning to me.

littlethings

To answer your question, I got off of methadone because I had finished my treatment plan. I had a slow detox plan and eventually it came to an end (when I was on 2mg). Also, I didn't want to continue paying $60.00 a week or driving 40 miles (roundtrip) at 5 in the morning when I had to pick up my doses.

This doesn't work for everyone. Everyone has their own treatment plan. I don't "do" NA or AA, never have and never will (hopefully). I do not believe in a "higher power" and I honestly believe that is what they focus on. Maybe I'm wrong... idk.... but NA/AA isn't for me

PeachyClean

Because the steps make no sense to me as a method of recovery. Which step says ... Don't use?

I don't agree with the religion and religious thinking of AA&NA, nor do I find it necessary to put my trust in faith, authority and anecdotal data ("Came to believe that a Power greater than ourselves could restore us to sanity," "Made a decision to turn our will and our lives over to the care of God as we understood Him"). Also, why is Big Book of Alcoholics Anonymous treated as a bible??

And I am not powerless....> so starting with step 1....> i see a problem with the 12steps as a method of recovery.

If NA/AA were more scientific than religious, I might be more interested.

And contrary to NA/AA BELIEFS......> some people do not need to be abstinent from all mood altering substances to recover.

I follow the above. Makes a lot more sense to me.

windysan

I call it Windysan's Recovery Guide For Simpletons

Evanna

I dont see myself as 'avoiding' the fellowships Garry. Simply happy enough pootling along doing my own thing. Reading your question I had a mad image of myself hop-scotching down the road dodging NA'ers.

Peter

Step One. The long version.

"Recovery begins when we start to apply the Spiritual Principles in The 12 Steps to our lives. We realize however, that we cannot begin this process unless we stop using drugs"
-It Works How And Why. Pg.10


"Each day we accept that we cannot use drugs successfully"
-It Works How and Why .Pg.13

EricPaul

I count my precious days free from toxic rot. I even count my free time from smoking which is going on 4 years. I am so happy that I am free from all the poisons that were literally killing me and making my life unlivable. Those dates of liberation from the bondage of slow death and misery are milestones in my life and are very important dates to remind me of where I was at one point in my life. The further away from the toxic garbage I get the better my life becomes and health improves.

It matters not how anyone breaks free from their bondage to the ingestion of crap as long as they break free and stay free.

Gmoney

Thanks everyone for your input. I'm so happy to see that this thread has turned for the better (it was getting kinda heated for a minute) and we've turned the corner into a lively discussion. Many of the views I've heard about why NA/AA or 12 step recovery isn't attractive for some people are the same views I held at one time or another. Believe me...I do understand.

Evanna, when I said "avoid" I didn't mean it in a negative tense. I mean, anything I don't like or don't want to do, I tend to avoid it or shy away from it. But it isn't like I'm running out of fear or anything. I meant I just don't want to be bothered with it. No offense intended.

I, too, wasn't trying to hear anything about a higher power, religion or being powerless. And I also was one of those who viewed "those 12 steppers" as cultist who hid in alleys or corners waiting to jump out and kidnap you if you were caught getting high. (LOL!!) I was totally resistant and had my mind made up that I didn't need that kind of stuff to get my life back on track. I eve recall having a lengthy argument with a counselor about whether addiction was a disease or not. I figured that if she couldn't show me undeniable proof that it was, all that 12 step stuff was a bunch of bologna, hogwash, and $#%&!!

To this very day, I'm not a religious person. I don't pray or worship. I don't knock it for other people, and I respect their right to believe whatever they want. Yet, I don't allow anyone to force their beliefs on me because I have my own. I say this because I found (after reading NA literature for myself) that NA differs from AA in that it doesn't have such a heavy religious overtone. And throughout the literature it says it's NOT a religious program. I think, just my opinion, that so many people who have strong religious beliefs join these fellowships that they tend to carry the message according to their own interpretation, rather than sticking to what is actually said in the literature. Trust me, I've seen a lot a potential members get ran away because a well-meaning member came at them heavy-handed with the God and higher power stuff.

Peachyclean's question is an example of what I'm talking about. And although I can't answer her question factually, I'll say that I believe there are AA members who view the program of AA "religiously" and behave very similar to anyone who has a strong conviction to a system of belief. And, mind you, it doesn't happen just in AA!!

Windysan is precious!! (LOL!) And I agree with his barebones version of the steps, yet for some of us, staying clean just isn't enough. An there's so much more to each step than the wording of each step, but I guess sometimes we can get turned off by things without looking deeper. Peter gave a couple examples of what's contained in the 1st step and there's so much more. Funny thing I also found is that most of the "methods" contained in the 12 step programs of AA or NA are the same methods other programs use - the words are just different.

Here's my version of the 12 steps (and it worked for me):

Step 1 - I admit that I allowed drugs to screw up my life and in the end I had no control. As a matter of fact, there's countless things in this world I have no control over.

Step 2 - As a result of my addiction, I acted pretty weird. I believe recovery is possible, so I'm going to allow someone or something to show me how (so I don't get weird again). That someone could be the fellowship (2 heads are better than one). That something could be the program (or God). The choice is mine alone.

Step 3 - I'm going to commit myself to following this path that obviously works. I believe that if it works for them, it can work for me.

Step 4 - I need to know who I am on a much deeper level so I won't repeat the mistakes of the past (self-discovery).

Step 5 - I need to share what I've learned about myself with someone I can trust. Someone who's input and judgment I value. Maybe they can help me see something I don't (the good, bad & ugly).

Step 6 - Now that I know myself better, I can't make excuses for why I do or did things. I'm truly ready for change.

Step 7 - "Practice makes perfect."

Step 8 - Begin preparing to clean up the wreckage. Itemize.

Step 9 - Clean house.

Step 10 - Routine spot-check and correct problems immediately.

Step 11 - Keep living right.

Step 12 - Help others who ask - someone helped me.

nite-nite

jane_668

That's what I dislike with NA/AA methods.I don't believe that we have to surrender because we already did that while using or else we would have quit earlier.Further more,I do believe in higher power but I don't find it a necessary condition for recovery .

Gmoney

Jane, I think you have been misled. Surrender in 12 step recovery is about no longer fighting recovery, not the drugs. If we surrendered to the drugs we'd still be using, wouldn't we? That's want I mean about misinterpretation being spread. Sorry. (I don't mean you spreading it, but it was spread incorrectly to you)

Oh...and I'd bet you'd be surprised to know that many others in AA or NA agree with you about the Higher Power aspect. Belief in a higher power has never been a requirement for membership or participation. That's a myth too. There's a story in the NA Basic Text called, "Up From Down Under." It's written by an Atheist. Lots of people don't know that.

2ala2

I've noticed that people working a 12 step program are 'generally' happy. I've also noticed that many people hacking it on their own are quite misreable and easily fired up.
These are people i am in costant contact with.

jane_668

Garry,believe me I have no motive nor do I care to spread any idea icluding my own personal believes concerning AA/NA.Whatever works for a person then it's fine for me (even if it contradicts my own personal believes). If you found your recovery within NA/AA texbooks then I'm happy for you.However,I do hope that NA/AA will remain a method to stay clean rather than being "the method" and the only way for recovery as some of its membors are spreading it.

windysan

Oh yes, I'm quite miserable. LOL

Evanna

I know you didnt mean offense and none was taken Garry. I was just posting a light hearted response and playing with you (and not in a mean way) because your question made me giggle. I did know exactly what you meant. Of couse, given my earlier prickliness i understand that my humour may have been hard to follow.

Slightly more serious response from moi:
I dont have any difficulty with the 12 steps which make fine sense to me and most certainly i dont have a problem with the notion of powerlessness. Powerlessness over my addiction is something i feel to my core. I would recommend anyone give the fellowships a go. I simply dont do it that way myself. I take what i find useful from things i encounter over the years and abandon what i dont. Sitting in rooms is just not where it is at for me today (I am a little bad-tempered and crotchety). Like, you i remain open to the fact that my truths are forever changing and tomorrow i may find myself doing 90 in 90.

There are a lot of us out there just getting on with life we are just not so easy to see when we dont do the fellowship thing. But is a funny thing that addicts do seem to find each other in my experience. My closest women friends are recovering addicts. I also cleaned up with my hubs who i also used with for many years. We all have a ball. We are all leading full lives doing very different things from each other. But we do get together for play. Much of this summer was spent playing in the sea.