Vicoden Question

[Calbasy]

Can I ask those of you who use Vicoden, how many you use at once? In a day? I know some folks around me who are addicted to it and somehow they get by with popping two at a time maybe three to five times a day. I usually swallow 4-6 at a time and do that every 2 hours or less. I finished 100 pills in four days when I was using them.
This really is just a curiosity question and the first time I have ever admitted it.
Thanks,
Andy

[Thomas10/325]

Hmm, that was alot. You speak of it in the past tense, so you were able to get off them? Major kudos to you!
I've been to alot of forums like this and I have seen people mention they take 15+ per day, and some have said they got to a point with the tollerance where they could take 5 at a time and feel nothing. Me personally, I use them as sparingly as possible. I have severe depression and they are the only thing that actually help, so I am taking control of my own mental well being at the moment. But I am very aware of the addiction factor, and I can see exactly how it works. I used to take two at a time, now I take 4 to get the same effect. But that's it, I don't take any more than that in a day and I have not taken them for more than 3 days straight. And I usually break for a few days - ometimes just knowing I can take them if I have a real bad day helps, and I try to stretch it as long as possible. I guess some would say I am playing with fire, but I do not intend to use them for very long, just until I get past some BS in my life.
Regards,
-T

[justaround]

Well while I was still using....

How much ya got?
Where can I steal em?
What do I have to do for em?


On the height of my addiction I took somethin like a bottle of 30 10/650 HD Vicodin a day. On an average roughly 15. I did this until I became very sick because of the mass-Tylenol content which can kill you (ya, the opiate can't..ha). So then I just went to source and did what most addicts do. Finnd the ones that are pure like Dilaudid (pharmi heroin) and OxyContin (mass quantity Percocet without APAP) or morphine. So watch out, this will happen. That Tylenol grabs everyone into the harder opiates because you get so sick from it. So at my height using the hard junk at 240mg oxycontin that would be equal to 48 percocet a day so roughly the same vicodin.

[phoenix]

Originally posted by Thomas10/325
I have severe depression and they are the only thing that actually help, so I am taking control of my own mental well being at the moment. But I am very aware of the addiction factor, and I can see exactly how it works. I used to take two at a time, now I take 4 to get the same effect. But that's it, I don't take any more than that in a day and I have not taken them for more than 3 days straight. And I usually break for a few days - ometimes just knowing I can take them if I have a real bad day helps, and I try to stretch it as long as possible. I guess some would say I am playing with fire, but I do not intend to use them for very long, just until I get past some BS in my life.
Regards,
-T

Yes...to be blunt you are playing with fire.If you need treatment for depression,help is available.Self medicating with pain killers is not going to get you anything except deeper into addiction.As an addict I know that my mind will create the excuses I need to keep using drugs.For me,one is too many and there is no such thing as enough.

You may intend to use the pills as a short term fix but there will always be a way to justify continued use.If you really want to take control of your mental well being there is a better way.

We do recover.What are you waiting for?

phoenix

[phoenix]

Originally posted by Calbasy
This really is just a curiosity question and the first time I have ever admitted it.
Thanks,
Andy

Andy, thanks for the honesty.If you are ready for recovery you've come to a great starting point.Try some reading on the NA forum,and keep talking...we're listening.

phoenix

[justaround]

I didn't catch your post Thomas but from the defense mechanisms (DM excuses: I use pain pills because they are the only thing that help my depression and DM minimizing: I use them only sparingly) that you use, you are headed down a steep road. Pain killers obviouslly help you feel good, they get ya high and for a couple hours on top of that. Speed and coke also helped with my depression. I think that it is the idea that we are taking only a prescription pill that makes us feel it is okay...or at least say that it is okay...or another defense mechanism...it's not like I'm using heroin.

What is funny is that while I was using pain meds I ACTUALLY believed that pain killers could cure my depression. I tried to spread the word that some of us just need "a little more than an anti-depressant". That some of us have a different brain chemistry and not enough endorphins, blah, blah. We all will make excuses for our addiction..I mean, why would we want to admit to being a drug addict? Oh sorry, but they are only prescription pills.

Right now you can take a three day break...give it a few months. Some of us it just takes longer. 4 won't be the limit soon either. Notice the jump from 2 to 4 pills already??

[2stop]

Vicodin has been a close companion of mine for many years. i would sometimes take 50 a day. I, too thought it would cure my depression. I sure used to feel good on them. I took vicodins to the point that they did not work and bleeding sores erupted all over my body. That was 3 years ago and now i'm struggling with getting off Fentanyl patches/morphine/percocet. I can no longer drive, am paranoid and don't socialize anymore. The appeal of this drug is so strong I still wish I had a purse full. I am only 3 days clean right now and I am in purgatory. I have been an addict to prescription and street drugs for over 20 years. I am only 31. I have wasted my life on getting a "fix" for how bad I feel, and now I pray i live long enough to see my kids grow up. This drug doesn't give a damn about your age or status in life. It will kill you and you'll still want to use. Please anyone in their early days of using vicodin talk to people that this drug has affected. I know you don't think it can happen to you. We have all thought the same thing, but "IT" still happened.

[liveweyerd]

WOW

Anyway.....I have a problem with depression, ....have been treated for it for years...and studied it quite a bit because it affects me life so deeply........I have NEVER EVER seen or read of pain killers being a treatment or helpful in any way with depression.
Getting high wll leave you low.

Medically, depression is best treated with a combo of SSRIs and counseling.

live

[Calbasy]

Thanks all!!

Just a little heads up. When I was first researching vicoden (Way back when I was realizing there was a problem) I read in several places and was told by my Mom (who works in the medical field)that is actually induces depression. This I can believe, as when I am first coming down off it, I just hit an unbearable depression.

Keep hanging with me all, I am learning a lot here.
Smiles,
Andy

[Thomas10/325]

Thanks all,
Wise words, no doubt.
However, right now I am going thru both job/career problems and relationship problems, a bit much all at once and my depression was getting the better of me (in that I was contemplating suicide daily). The pain pills help me right now (I went to two therapists and was put on zoloft and later paxil. Nothing helped). I got tired of experimenting with things that did not help and found something that does. I admit it may not be medically correct, however it is saving my life at the moment. I do see the addiction train heading my way, but I do not intend to use them for very long. That is the best I can say right now. Please know I am truly being vigilant with them.
Thanks very much for the advice and concern.

Kind regards,
Thomas

[tyler]

Hey Thomas,

Welcome. I hope you stick around with us. You are welcome whether you are using or not.

I know what you are saying about the situational depression. I have been in the same boat myself. Of course part of the problem for me was the drug use in the first place. I was a very heavy pot smoker and a binge drinker as well. I had very deep depressions where I was suicidal and even cut myself once. I could't stay off the drugs and not be totally depressed, so when I felt like this my answer was to give up and start using again. It helped the depression...but at the same made it worse. What Justaround said about you usage going up and up is true. You have a handle on it now, but you are playing with fire. 2 didn't work so now you take 4. What is going to happen when 4 don't work anymore? It will happen, it's called building up tollarance. That's why people who are perscribed pain killers for chronic pain have to up their doses and go to stronger and stronger pain killers in order to kill their pain. Maybe when you situation improves, you will be able to taper off the pills. This can involve physical withdrawal symptoms, including depression. How long did you take anti-depressants before you gave up? You know that they take 2-4 weeks and sometimes up to 6 weeks to start working. I tried about a half dozen anti-depressants before I found a combination that is working for me. I would recomend seeing a psychatrist about this. They specialize in this sort of thing. I just went to a GP for the longest time and they would just keep trying stuff hoping something would work. The psychatrist did a psych evaluation and put me on a combination of pills that have worked very well for me. Anyway, I don't mean to lecture you, you are the only one who can decide what is right for you. But I would advise getting some professional advice. Good luck to you in life, I hope some of this may have helped, if not...just ignore it!! Peace.
Tyler

[Thomas10/325]

Hi,
Thanks.
I went to a psychotherapist as that was what my insurance covered. No offense to that field, but I really felt the person was no more qualified to help me than I was (I actually was laughing about it the one time on the way home, and it was the first time I had laughed all week, so I guess you could say he helped me...lol!)
He would actually write a letter for me to give to my family doc , then my family doc would give me the script. I tried the antidepressants for a few weeks, but I don't like waiting to see if something is not going to work. I think it was the zoloft was even a sample pack they had around the office, so yea, i don't think it was taylored to my specific prob.
Hmmm, I may consider the psychologist route if things don't get better for me, but alot of it is circumstances at the moment. I don't exactly like admitting I need help, I usually have no problems with handling what life hands me. But that depression is something I can't battle, man I'll tell you. My mind is my own worst enemy sometimes.
I like the pain pills because they work, and instantly. And I like the self-medicating because I am - you guessed it - doing it myself But yea, I know I am using them incorrectly. And I know the addiction factor very well. There is a part of me that hates the pills, and I will focus on that part after a few things in my life get ironed out. And yes, I do know what you mean about the drug actually being part of the cause of the problem. But not the case here.

Thanks for the feedback,
Regards,
Thomas

[phoenix]

Originally posted by Thomas10/325
My mind is my own worst enemy sometimes.
I like the pain pills because they work, and instantly. And I like the self-medicating because I am - you guessed it - doing it myself But yea, I know I am using them incorrectly. And I know the addiction factor very well. There is a part of me that hates the pills, and I will focus on that part after a few things in my life get ironed out. And yes, I do know what you mean about the drug actually being part of the cause of the problem. But not the case here.

Thanks for the feedback,
Regards,
Thomas

As an addict I can tell you that there will always be excuses to use.And we tell ourselves that after we get over this hurdle then quitting will be possible.But there will always be another hurdle and another and another.The truth may be that you simply aren't ready.You still enjoy using and it hasn't hurt you enough...yet.

Just don't kid yourself that you are,in any way,treating your depression.That's like treating a burn with a lit match

You are killing your pain...that's all.But it is only going to bring more.Keep reading,keep posting.When you are ready to face your problems you'll know what to do.

phoenix

[justaround]

Thomas,

In your posts I see a lot of excuses not to quit. The truth as Phoenix mentioned is that you are not ready and it is pretty clear. I can see the same words in your posts that came from mine while I was still using. Believe it or not, pain killers are powerful DOWNERS, which induce depression. The more and more you take, the more depressed you get but as I did, you will probably start to blame other things, other things that are creating the relationship and carreer problems. Ever thought it was the pain pills?

Of course the pain meds work instantly, they are dangerous HIGHLY PHYSICALLY AND MENTALLY addictive narcotics. Just wait until you are forced to quit due to a loss of money or nothing left to pawn. You most likely will have wished you waited that six weeks for the anti-depressants to work. The depression is SO severe coming off pain medications, you have no idea. Suicidal thinking is just the beggining, and if that is already showing...well, you might end up like how I did, slit wrists in a psych/drug treatmment ward.

No anti-depressant is specifically taylor fit for a specific individual, even you, believe it or not. You have to give different ones a try and give em a bit to work. So Paxil and Zoloft didn't work...well there are about 30+ more out there and who knows how many combinations. You said that you don't like being experimented on...do you honestly think that is any worse than what that opiate poision is doing to your body?

I see a lot of defense mechanisms in your posts....the anti-depressants take too long to work....I laugh because I think I know more than the therapist who went through 6+ years of college opposed to my nada....I'll quit later, I have too many problems right now (The pain killers are only going to build upon those problems until you have to quit and THEN really feel the misery)...nothing else works for my depression......I could go on for a while

As an addict I thought that my position was SO different than everybody else's until I attended AA and realized I ain't ****. We all have the same problem and not one of them is uniquly different or more painful. I used so many different excuses in my head to make it feel alright to use again instead of actually DEALING with reality (what a concept huh?)


The addiction train isn't about to hit you............it already has.

Have you tried AA/NA? Inpatient/outpatient rehab? Rehab and my program saved my life. You have nothing to lose but your life right?

[phoenix]

Originally posted by justaround
Thomas,

The addiction train isn't about to hit you............it already has.

Now that's hitting the nail on the head.

Great post!

phoenix

[tyler]

Good luck to you Thomas. Nobody else can tell you to quit or that you have a problem but you. I hope you stick around and continue to read and post. It seems that you have not reached the point yet where you want help. It is available when you are ready, all you need to do is ask. I hope you don't wait as long as I did, finding myself sitting in a car with a cocked and loaded revolver in my hand thinking there was no way out and if my life was as bad as it is I'd rather not live at all. I'm not saying that will happen to you, I never thought it would happen to me either. I see so much of me in your posts. Keep in touch. Peace.
Tyler

[Thomas10/325]

Tyler,
Thanks, will keep in touch.

justaround and Phoenix,
Thanks for the realism, duley noted.
However, I have not had one thought of suicide since having the pills in my possession, so they are helping me at the moment. I know the risks I am taking and I am very aware of the addiction factor. I am not necessarly in denial
I have what it takes to ride this out, and I will fight until I win (talking about the problems in my life tight now). and for the record, the problems came on first, then I resorted to the pain meds, a little trick I learned from a girlfriend actually.
Again, right now the best I can say is it's temporary.
I do appreciate the concern, advice and dialect. Right minded no doubt.
Will stay in touch.
Thanks,
Kind regards,
Thomas

[julgirl]

Calbasy, I also was taking Vicodin ES 15+ a day , Percocet 10's and pretty much anything i could get. It has ruined my health. I have alot of internal problems from using these drugs for only 1 yr. I've been clean 30 days today and feel better than i have in years! Prayers to you

[catherine40]

Hi Andy ...

Vicodin is one of the painkillers I have some experience with.

I would take about 15 a day - usually 4 at one time. And I'm a 125 pound girl!! Like you, this is the first time I'm admitting it. Certainly nothing to be proud of, is it???

Catherine

[Doctor Benz]

Thomas,
I was clean from iv Daludid (sp) for seven years. Went to the dentist and was sent home with some 7.5 Loratab.
I too thought I could control my usage (and in the beginning I was able to) When I got up to taking eight at a time three times a day!! (some control) But in my head the vics seemed so kindergartern I didn't worry about them.
Then I self detoxed with Methadone a couple of times, and it worked so well I thought I was fine.
Then I tried a whole 40mg. wafer (I was only taking 1/4s or 1/2s to detox with) it was over. Then all I would do was take the whole wafers sometimes three at a time.
My point is we can't take opiates my friend!!! It's like meeting your long lost best friend all over again.
Now I'm 9 days clean and it feels great. Count your blessings and not your pills

Respectfully, Greg

[justaround]

It could be something as weak as Darvocet...Doctor Benz is right, you can't take any sort of opiate. You're just fighting a downward spiral. It seems like those pills are "helping you at the moment" but they are not. Everyone that you pop makes things only worse. You have two options...you are taking opiates or you are not. There is no in between. I to tried to get off a harder opiate, OxyContin and Dilaudid, by taking codeine or Vicodin. This was no good. I hope you find sobriety soon. Keep on trying!