Caffiene

[StagebearNJ]

Okay, purists and non-purists alike, can we discuss, for a moment, the use of caffiene in early recovery from narcotics?
I admit to using brand name OTC caffiene in lieu of coffee or cola, simply because when I drink coffee I go way overboard. But the early stages of this are tough for me and I need the alertness occasionally, especially when I am not sleeping.
So- did (or do) you use caffiene? Strictly in beverages or by dosed caplet? Am I just a moron of a dope addict for taking it in pill form? I just want to maintain a correct dosage and not get wired on coffee. I have not yet taken more than four caplets a day, spaced out.
Just wanted to discuss experience, I am not seeking, nor do I expect, medical advice (just check my sig...)
Bear Hug,
Da Bear

[gettingbetter]

Just finished "potatoes not Prozak" book recomended on the "100 day abstinance from sweets" thread. It had a great section on caffiene as well as how food and the things we stuff down our pie holes affect our brain chemicals. My NA buddy is just starting to go off caffiene, 32 white foam cups a day. I warned him about going cold turkey. we'll see how he does. They do make de-caf if you still want the taste of coffee and not just the buzz. Also, you can always thin out reg. coffee with decaf., to get your desired affect. I know if i use caffiene after 5pm, it disrupts my sleep. Sorry if I offerered two much "medical" advice, but caffiene is a drug and like a lot of people, we tend to sub one for another.

[Buzz Kilowatt]

In the early stages of recovery, coffee didn't quite get it. Initially, the lassitude and depression were intense. I tried a very small amount of Ritalin that an endocronologist gave me, but not much and not for long (NOT recommended).

These stimulants have a rebound effect on me. If I get a buzz inevitably I'll want to take a nap when they wear off.

The BEST prescription for me has been aerobic exercise. 20-30 minutes / day wakes you up and keeps you alert and promotes sleep.

As you know, caffeine is an alkaloid. I think it's fine to drink it in moderation. IMHO taking it in pill form is over the top. Why? Because we are trying to break repetitive behavioral patterns and the notion that a pill --- of any description -- can fix us. But that's just my opinion . . . .

Buzz

[Barto]

If this is a real question, pardon me. I get a lot of guff about my position that caffeine is an indulged in drug (thus literally a violation of NA’s own literature because it is not abstained from). But I don’t go to NA, so what do I know. Anyway, I know people that drink it and they seem fine. I even like some of them. Actually, most of my friends drink it, and I like some of them, too. Ahem. Anyway…

If you are withdrawing from benzos, it is to be totally abstained from according to the internet benzo authorities, benzo.org.uk (FAQ #26). I believe from experience that caffeine really messes with benzo withdrawal. I don’t know what other drugs it interferes with, but I suspect all narcotics to some degree, because narcotics put you to sleep, they induce stupor, and caffeine has a somewhat opposite effect.

I posted some very interesting links to information about caffeine in the anxiety section of this website. If you are seriously interested in caffeine, they are a must read. There is evidence that caffeine causes all kinds of symptoms that would lead to the compulsion to (self) medicate. Even if you are only a little interested, you will enjoy reading. Here is the thread, and a link to some info put out by Johns Hopkins.

http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...affeine-2.html (Caffeine)
http://www.caffeinedependence.org/

[Barto]

If the above doesn't convince you, check this out.

http://www.glumbert.com/media/spiders

[Buzz Kilowatt]

Originally Posted by Barto

If the above doesn't convince you, check this out.

http://www.glumbert.com/media/spiders

Uh, you're kidding, right???

Buzz

[Barto]

With the last post anyway. I am a nut, but not that nutz.

Actually, I was kidding a bit with the first part of my first post, too.

[StagebearNJ]

Originally Posted by Barto

If this is a real question, pardon me.

Pardon requested, pardon received.
Yes, it was a real question. I am not naive, nor totally new to 12 step programs. I asked opinions. Like a$$holes, everyone has one. I appreciate yours as much as anyone else's.
I agree there is a pattern to be broken in pill taking. My concern was actually to avoid overindulgence while withdrawing from narcs.
Again, thanks for the input.
Da Stagebear

[Barto]

It was a good question. I was half kidding because it is the kind of question that one of my friends might ask someone to ask me to get me going about caffeine, and the fact that it is a drug, and the literal flaws in NA literature (I can be anal about literacy at times). The reply had nothing to do with you personally.

If it is overindulgence you are worried about, and not the complication it may cause you in your early stages of recovery, I still say be careful. I know many recovered alcoholics (several years sober) that drink pots and pots of coffee per day. Some drink it in moderation, but others are way out of control. I mean way out of control. But, everyone is different.

[StagebearNJ]

I totally regretted that post as soon as I hit "send", but I couldn't edit it for some reason.
Sorry, buddy, I did not mean that as it read, honest. And I did appreciate your reply. Thanks for taking the time to write that.
Seriously, my best,
Stagebear

[windysan]

I absolutely LOVE my New Orleans Coffee. You'll have to pry it from my cold, dead fingers.

[Barto]

I’m glad we each posted again. All my best to you, too. If you do view the video I linked to, it is totally meant for humor (as you will see). It is hilarious if you get the chance (or maybe I simply have too much time on my hands these days).

StageBear, let me add that I could have been a lot smarter in the way I wrote that first post.

[Barto]

Originally Posted by windysan

I absolutely LOVE my New Orleans Coffee. You'll have to pry it from my cold, dead fingers.

Moses, is that you?

[Ten Chips Down]

I'll speak from my own experience and for once (try to) leave out as much technical/medical babble as possible.

First, I really respect the views of everyone here who deems caffeine and sweets as being hurtful to one's recovery. Really, the body doesn't need these things to function in good health, and an over-indulgence in refined sugars and caffeine can be very, very bad for anyone.

That said, Bear? It's just not an issue for me. I drank my full-octane Taster's Choice throughout my gettting off the Klonopin last month. That was a VERY tough period - but I chalk it up to getting off the Klonopin and not to my Reese's Cups and Taster's Choice! To me, those were some of the joys of my life as I was slowly able to get my appetite back and return to a normal daily routine.

"Am I just a moron of a dope addict for taking it in pill form?"

I used to do that (years ago)! LOL But I would always avoid the 200mg pills. Only 100mg for me, thank you very much. I don't think you're a moron for doing so, but when I read you're ingesting sometimes four of those suckers a day, which comes to at least 400mg, I wince a little. It's a lot. And if it's 800mg, then yes, you really want to step back and re-evaluate how much good versus sheer bad effects that amount may be having at the end of every day.

"I just want to maintain a correct dosage and not get wired on coffee. I have not yet taken more than four caplets a day, spaced out."

So are they 100- or 200-mg?

And Now, For Da Buzzzz K.... -

Originally Posted by Buzz Kilowatt

IMHO taking it in pill form is over the top. Why? Because we are trying to break repetitive behavioral patterns and the notion that a pill --- of any description -- can fix us. But that's just my opinion . . . .

Noted that it's just your opinon yet I really have to stand up, raise my paw, and take a decisive exception to this notion, reflecting a pervasive belief in too many recovery circles--namely that any kind of reliance on a pill is somehow bad or wrong.

Well people just could not be any more narrowminded than that. The sentiment standing alone and unqualified (undefined) is far too much of an overgeneralization. Vitamins come in pills. The diabetic's medication... often comes in pill-form.

Antidepressants (ADs) come in pills. YES. lol, yes, let us talk about that!

I take an AD, Celexa. I credit the stuff for saving me throughout my w/d from Klonopin (there was never any of the "bereavement"/self-loathing that often comes with that territory). I credit it for keeping me levelheaded and sane throughout so much in my sobriety over the YEARS.

Important to understand I'm not pushing ADs on the masses. I am taking pains to state that they are such beneficial, even life-saving drugs for so many. And mind you, each of these requires the repetitive behavioral pattern... of "pill-popping" that we are set upon condemning. I just really feel that lumping it all in with the bzds or opiates is a dire mistake for the many people who need them.

Ten

[StagebearNJ]

Lots to reply to here...

Barto- you da man! Thanks for understanding.

To everyone else, thanks for your input. I totally get the possibility that I am making a mistake. Let's face it, if I was so convinced I was right I never would have posted it. But I didn't come here to be dishonest.

And Ten...oh, man...you da bomb, man. You're out there and totally up front with doing what you have to do to stay sane. When I grow up I wanna be like you. They're 100's. And if YOU tell me that's of concern, I really need to look at it.

I've been around "recovery" since 1984. Met guys who met Bill W. Stayed sober most of sixteen years without meetings but with one very simple credo: don't drink. As I've mentioned before here, this pill thing crept up my damaged neck and took hold of my brain. But, as with all of my many addictions, my choice and my consequences.

'Nuff said: Now, time for a cigarette, cuppa joe and a sleeping pill then off to bed. (Kidding...mostly...about the coffee, I mean.)

Love you guys (in a non-threatening back-slapping, sack-scratching kind of way)
Da Bear

[Ten Chips Down]

Originally Posted by StagebearNJ

Let's face it, if I was so convinced I was right I never would have posted it. But I didn't come here to be dishonest.

Yes. That sounds just like me!

"They're 100's. And if YOU tell me that's of concern, I really need to look at it."

Well - 100's in the absence of other sources of caffeine like coffee or a lot of colas is ok. By me i mean.

"I've been around "recovery" since 1984. Met guys who met Bill W. Stayed sober most of sixteen years without meetings but with one very simple credo: don't drink."

That's MY formula.

Funny, my relationship with AA has reaped benefits for me which I find myself using to this very day. In fact, I find myself relying on much of the conventional wisdom you pick up around those tables and using it on HERE in helping the newcomer to recovery. Yet I don't go to meetings either and haven't in years! It's odd, I concede, though immensely kewl that Bear and I should be so much alike.

Ten

[ccgirl]

Buzz, coffee does the same thing to me. I just drink it to enjoy it.


Windy, when we went to New Orleans a couple years ago, there was a local coffee that our hotel had. I think it was John's or something like that. My husband went crazy for it.

[Buzz Kilowatt]

Originally Posted by Ten Chips Down

I'll speak from my own experience and for once (try to) leave out as much technical/medical babble as possible.
And Now, For Da Buzzzz K.... -

Noted that it's just your opinon yet I really have to stand up, raise my paw, and take a decisive exception to this notion, reflecting a pervasive belief in too many recovery circles--namely that any kind of reliance on a pill is somehow bad or wrong.

Well people just could not be any more narrowminded than that. Ten

Ten,

Well, I'm no expert on addiction . . . all I know is what I've been through with help from this forum. Never been to a meeting . . . etc.

I might very well be narrow-minded. I guess that depends upon the breadth of the observer . . . . ;-)

I should have reworded my prior post to make it more exact, adding, "in my opinion, as it applies to ME."

I don't presume to speak for others. If I can contribute something from my experience that resonates with someone else, then I'm happy enough.

Having said that, I see my own addiction as an expression of compulsions and obsessions. I take BP medication every day, and some other nutrients. So I am not against daily pill-popping, or it would be to my detriment.

MY problem is that I looked to the little white pills to make my life better, happier, more numb -- whatever. For ME, it is important to try to dispense with psychoactive artificial substances to try to find out what the heck is underneath, i.e. what is in my soul. After that, if anti-depressant or caffeine pills are needed to make my life better, I'll do what I have to do. But in the meantime, I want to break habitual, addict-LIKE behaviors, that are part of MY pattern of addiction. OK?

What others do is entirely their business and I'm not offering or suggesting a bromide.

If that's narrow-minded in your weltanschauung, so be it!

Buzz

[cane]

At first i didn't use cafience but as time goes on I drink more and more of cafiene.....

[Ten Chips Down]

Dude . . .

I never called you narry~minded. I was alluding to the subset who thinks that somehow all pills are "bad" as being ...narry-minded. Heh. I actually agree in full with this:

"For ME, it is important to try to dispense with psychoactive artificial substances to try to find out what the heck is underneath, i.e. what is in my soul."

Quite eloquent. And very healthy thinking. Ok? That a bit more in sync with yer ehh, weltanschauung?


Ten

[Barto]

Ten, Buzz, will you two quit making me click on my dictionary links! LOL.

[StagebearNJ]

Yup, I'm on "good" pills, such as high BP meds. And also on AD's, which may have the added side effect of quitting smoking (just for you, Ten!)
But taking caffiene tablets is a bad idea. I'm doing an "avoid the rebound headache" taper.
I realized I mostly used them to perk up after I perc'ed down.
D'oh!
Loving a cuppa coffee,
Da Bear

[Barto]

Not good, really not good (while tapering off benzos). Will bump back up to 1.25 to 1.5mg. for the day. Argh! (prescription is for 1.5mg.)

[anvilhead]

ok, smarmy female voice chimes in........ain't ya heard of decaf????

the topic of caffeine does generate a lot of "enthusiastic" replies, does it not? i live in the land of starbucks, tully's, SBC.....i have owned every coffee making device ever produced......back at my first run at sobriety i downed many a gallon of coffee at AA meetings....my ex husband used to make "Iron Mike's" - Jolt Soda over ice with a shot of espresso........i also went completely caffeine free for about three years.......

all that being said, anybody can go overboard on anything....sort of our trademark around here eh? cutting down or cutting out caffeine is certainly a good thing, just needs to be done with care. i'm not sure caffeine pills are the way i'd go - of course, i've been known to crush and snort No Doze, so that's where i'm coming from! i've been cutting back on how much coffee i consume...it just sorta happened.......i still have morning coffee, but finish off with a cup of african miracle tea (i swear by the sh*t man......) and when i get to work i do grab a cup for my desk, but cut it half reg/half decaf. i occasionally give myself a treat with a latte, but that often just tears up my tummy and i regret it later.

for someone in early recovery i'd be inclined to say don't worry about coffee or cigarettes right now, unless you really WANT to deal with that right now. the longer we stay clean and begin to construct healthier lives and lifestyles, i think a lot of us well gravitate that way sooner or later.