stoshooo

Hey all - I'm Stosh, brand spankin' new to the forum. I am so happy to see that there is a forum for Sub maintence, because this is exactly what I am desperate for help or support around. It's long, I'm sorry, apparently I have a lot to say and need a lot of help! Here is some background leading up to my current situation:

I've been in and out of the rooms for about 15 years. I obtained nearly 5 years of solid sobriety until I was DX'd with Multiple Sclerosis back in January 2013 - then I allowed my world to come crumbling down. I never thought I would make it back, but I finally did. I finally 'came to' during a rare and lucid moment, and checked myself into Hazelden Center City. I was there for 2 months. I was coming off of 3.5 years of heavy drinking and, hence the post under "maintenance", a very headstrong c*nt of a Dilaudid habit. When I arrived at Center City I spent the first 4 days in detox. This is when I was introduced to Suboxone. I had never used a maintenance drug before.

We started off at 6 & 6, 12 mg/day total. It was a Miracle. Not only did it extinguish any lingering, leftover WD's, but it made my neurologically broken body feel 50x better. But but but - in the back of my mind I kept getting a nagging feeling that this isn't a good idea long-term... I was definitely onto something. :-( I got out on November 1st and followed up the following Monday with a Sub doc in Chicago. I explained my fears around being on Subs (once an addict always an addict, I KNEW I would start behaving poorly on this stuff), but she convinced me that this was the best, and really - only, alternative for me.

Over the course of the past 6 months I have done everything wrong - I run out early every month now, I have missed cumulatively Weeks of work going through psychological and physical withdrawals, and I have kept a lot of my suffering from my wife. The first time I ran out early, 10 days before my monthly refill appointment, the doctor said we just need to mess with the dose - we have messed with the dose several times now. Now I am on 8 & 8 & 4, a total of 20mg/day. She has me stretch the day so that I get optimal pain releif alongside the maintenance.

I am in the program, have a sponsor, am starting step-work, but I am Not clean and sober. I am desperately trying to get off the subs because I keep running out and I'm basically in silent agony and active addiction still, so I decided to try Kratom - I waited 3 days to start the Kratom so that it would work and I didn't go into precipitated withdrawals. It didn't work as I had planned, and Now I am in a viscous cycle, an unending loop. I run out of subs (except I keep one for the day before my refill appt so that my pee test is positive for bup) - then I wait 3 days - then take Kratom extract until my next sub refill, and do it all over again.

So copious amounts of subs, run out, wait 3 days to avoid PW's, Kratom maintenance, stop the Kratom 48 hours before my next sub refill, take a sub for pee-test, then copious amounts of subs again, wait, kratum, wait, sub, wait, kratom, and the beat goes on!

My next sub refill is Tuesday (day after tomorrow), and I am to the point where I am just feeling scared and hopeless. I just want to be OFF of this stuff. And...I don't want a f*cking Kratom habit to replace this. I want to be Clean and Sober!

I feel like I have been set up to fail with Suboxone. I wish I had never started taking it; I should have said no. Now I am terrified of how this will end. I don't want to use! I don't want a new habit! I want to be free of chemicals! I have been fairly honest with the doctor, but her solution seems to always involve increasing my dose. On Tuesday I have a decision to make - be 100% honest about my behavior and tell her without a doubt I Cannot leave with another refill - or just hop on the bike again for another round. I know what the Right decision is, but I don't know how to Make it. AND...what's going to happen? Am I going to feel terrible for the next several months after a hard-stop like this?? I have been playing with this so much that I just preprtually feel like I'm in a minor state of WD's at all times. I just want to feel better and be Clean and FREE! I am in suboxone/kratom Prison!

Anyhow - ok that was long I don't know if anyone is going to read this, but if you do - and you have Any suggestions (or Christ even just some kind words) - this is what I am here for.

Thanks,
Stosh

Marcus

Welcome Stosh! Glad you are here.

That is quite a story you have there. It sounds like you may be finally ready to get off the ride. Sub has its place and helps a lot of people, but unfortunately many end up in situations just like you (I did). We are addicts after all.

So now what? I guess if it were me I would be brutally honest and very firm with my doctor that I want off. See if she can assist in that plan. No use wishing you never started taking it or that you said no because here you are. You are on it, but you can get off it too. I have come off suboxone and methadone at different times years ago. Clean and sober over 5 years now so it is absolutely possible.

The Sub forum is very quiet. Hopefully you will get some responses, but if not you can post in substance abuse section (or newcomers even) and get more responses.

Take Care :-)

Sarasita

I'm sorry you are going through this. I've been through it all so I understand. Currently I take subs for my heroin addiction but have weaned down to a low dose. Now I hear you that you want to quit but there is no need doing it cold turkey. Meaning if u don't get a refill from your doc. It would be painful going off 20mgs like that. I would have your wife or a trusted person in your life hold them so you can wean down slowly. It is definitely imperative that you have someone hold them as you are having some control issues. (I'm like that with Xanax no judgement) If it isn't possible to have a loved one hold them I would check in to a detox for that head start so even if you are still feeling sick when you get out you can take a smaller dose of sub. I wish you all the best. Most of this is mental. I'm not minimizing the pain of withdrawal but if you start with a negative mindset it will be much worse. Definitely try your very best to stay positive and keep telling yourself you can do this and it's for the best. I wish you all the best!

stoshooo

Thanks so so much for the replies!! I was hoping hoping hoping I would hear something back so thank you both!

So I spoke to my wife last night and I think what we are going to do is have her give them to me again (we tried this once before for a handful of weeks until I told her "it's ok I got it now" - because of course I will say that, I'm a freakin addict, gah!). She is coming with me in the morning to see my Sub doc and I'm laying it all out on the table. Don't ask me how I was able to agree to this - I think I am finally just desperate enough, you know? Truth be told there is a small part of me of course, that wishes I hadn't said anything to her. Again once an addict, always....but right now it doesn't seem so easy anymore to be dishonest about this. Desperation trumps deceit right now.

Unfortunately I DO have to do this slowly - now that I am thinking with a clear head and less emotion, I realize that jumping off at 20mg may as well be me saying "let me shoot myself in the foot so I am Sure to use again".

I will keep ya'all posted on the progress here. I wonder if anyone can answer this: how long does it take to go from 20mg to zero? I think we are talking years, aren't we? Just trying to prepare myself...

Marcus

Definitely not years :-)

This is where it is very important to work with a doctor on a taper plan. A lot of it depends on how you are feeling as you taper. What level of discomfort you can reasonably take without threatening falling back into other opiates or other drugs.

Like Sarasita said so much of it is mental. Yes there are definitely physical things going on, but they are completely manageable when we go into it with the right mindset. If we are looking for an out telling ourselves it can't be done or it is too hard then we are setting ourselves up for failure. Reasonable discomfort is relative to your mindset too.

My experience with Suboxone was the last 2 mg's were the hardest. Going from 24 to 8 was easier than going from 2 to zero. Since the half life is so long it is important not to go too fast. Slow and steady usually wins the race - at least it did for me.

stoshooo

Thanks Marcus. So I saw my sub doc this morning with my wife, and was boldly honest about what I've been doing. It was horrifying :-( but the truth really does set you free, I feel like a weight has been lifted. My wife is hanging onto my films, she brought them to her work today, so that is step one. Of course the entire situation makes me really uncomfortable but that is precisely why this is so imperative. I told the doctor about the Kratom and she scolded me pretty heavily - I could have had some pretty horrible PW's, and it goes against Everything we have agreed upon. She said if this happens again she won't be able to see me anymore and would recommend detox as an alternative. I do Not want to go to detox again. So I am following direction.

We started the taper with today's refill - down from 20mg to 16mg, which she said I probably won't even notice. The caveat is that yep, this is gonna take some time and I need to be patient and do exactly what she says - I'll be at 16mg for 3 months and then move to 12 and keep going from there, with constant status updates. She said the slower the better/easier; I'm gonna go with whatever she says she is the professional. You are right it won't take years lol (thank God) but it Will take some time. I'm so freaking nervous about all of this, like I feel like saying "I just want my life back" but I dunno what that even is right now. Life before this was years of heavy using and drinking, agony. Life now, today, is like I finally let go of something precious and hidden, my little secret ****** love affair with my Subs. It feels empty and slightly rewarding at the same time.

Anyhow thanks for reading and for the support guys. I will post my progress here often. I think there Just might be a light at the end of this tunnel. Here is hoping...

Stuckinadream

Wondering how you made it. My husband dabbled with kratom and abused it as well as abusing Suboxone.

I wish he wanted to get off it on his own like you.

Dee74

Welcome to SR stuckinadream

D