Suboxone for life?
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: New Haven
Posts: 3
Suboxone for life?
Hi everyone,
First time posting in this forum. Thanks for sharing your experiences and insights.
My question: is staying on suboxone for life a realistic option?
I ask because my boyfriend used heroin for 1.5 months over the summer. That was 5 months ago now, and now he's on suboxone and working with a therapist. Before the heroin use, his only period of addiction was 4 months hooked on prescription pain killers in 2013. He did a year of suboxone maintenance after that.
I am terrified of the impact that relapses could have on his life and mind, and I can't help but wonder: why shouldn't he just stay on suboxone for life? Do you think of that as a viable option?
Thanks,
110Blue
First time posting in this forum. Thanks for sharing your experiences and insights.
My question: is staying on suboxone for life a realistic option?
I ask because my boyfriend used heroin for 1.5 months over the summer. That was 5 months ago now, and now he's on suboxone and working with a therapist. Before the heroin use, his only period of addiction was 4 months hooked on prescription pain killers in 2013. He did a year of suboxone maintenance after that.
I am terrified of the impact that relapses could have on his life and mind, and I can't help but wonder: why shouldn't he just stay on suboxone for life? Do you think of that as a viable option?
Thanks,
110Blue
Member
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Western NY
Posts: 1,209
110blue - suboxone is relatively new when it comes to maintenance treatment. Given that, I am not sure that they have solid research on the long, long-term effects of suboxone. Different doctors that I have been to have given me various opinions on this topic. Some doctors have be adamant that it is only to be used for maintenance over a relatively short time (6 months). The ones that only wanted to use it for say 6 months gave me philosophical reasons as opposed to medical explanations. For those doctors it was a tool that gave a period of stability that was to be used to build a support system and to get one's life in order.
Others believed that it should be used for maintenance indefinitely. Those doctors opined that opiate addiction caused physiological changes that required the use of a opiate type drug to function properly. My personal experience has been that stopping opiates caused a predictable withdrawal phase, but the withdrawal does end. In other words, I am highly skeptical that there are permanent changes that require the use of maintenance meds for life in order to function properly. I have one friend that has been on suboxone for years and plans to stay on it indefinitely. His doctor is supportive of this. He has been happy with that situation, and has no interest in getting off of suboxone ever.
To get the definitive answer to your question you are going to ask his prescribing doctor. Again, in my experience, you will get different answers from different doctors.
What does your bf want to do? A lot of people (myself included) really don't like the idea of having to take a medication daily for the rest of their life if they don't have to. If I read your OP correctly it sounds like he has only used for 5.5 months in total over the course of his life, right? For me personally, signing up for the use of suboxone for the rest of my life would be a last and final resort. Has he tried AA/NA at all?
Also, the sub/methadone forum tends to be on the slower side and all of the forums tend to be slower on the weekends in general. It may take a while to get additional responses. If you are patient I am sure there will be others that can provide valuable insights.
Others believed that it should be used for maintenance indefinitely. Those doctors opined that opiate addiction caused physiological changes that required the use of a opiate type drug to function properly. My personal experience has been that stopping opiates caused a predictable withdrawal phase, but the withdrawal does end. In other words, I am highly skeptical that there are permanent changes that require the use of maintenance meds for life in order to function properly. I have one friend that has been on suboxone for years and plans to stay on it indefinitely. His doctor is supportive of this. He has been happy with that situation, and has no interest in getting off of suboxone ever.
To get the definitive answer to your question you are going to ask his prescribing doctor. Again, in my experience, you will get different answers from different doctors.
What does your bf want to do? A lot of people (myself included) really don't like the idea of having to take a medication daily for the rest of their life if they don't have to. If I read your OP correctly it sounds like he has only used for 5.5 months in total over the course of his life, right? For me personally, signing up for the use of suboxone for the rest of my life would be a last and final resort. Has he tried AA/NA at all?
Also, the sub/methadone forum tends to be on the slower side and all of the forums tend to be slower on the weekends in general. It may take a while to get additional responses. If you are patient I am sure there will be others that can provide valuable insights.
Live it
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: USA
Posts: 255
K, this is a major, major topic, and I'm here to offer my experience, strength and (I hope) hope, because if anyone has some experience with relapse and suboxone treatment, it's definitely me.
I was first diagnosed opiate dependent at 20 during a stint in rehab after a thirty day bout with heroin.
Got clean, drank, no opiates for a couple of years.
Got into OxyContin for awhile. Quit, no ill effects. Graduated college magna *** laude and started interning at a reputable firm in a major metropolis.
Towards the end of my internship, I started snorting lortab and Percocet. I remembered how great opiates felt in my early 20s and I wanted to experience that again at 25. Kept up this habit for over a year- it worsened and worsened and worsend ... My career, on the other hand, took off!
This is when I started suboxone for the first time.
Got into NA for the second time, only the lady who sponsored me was unemployed and insane, albeit clean and she liked me. I actually faked moving out of town to escape from what I felt to be a cult atmosphere without respect for personal or professional boundaries.
With my fiance's help, I quit suboxone and nicotine and stayed clean for 18 months, the longest opiate-free period of my adult life since the aforementioned relapse.
My fiancé drank and was an alcoholic, so my alcohol use picked up considerably. We fought and broke up and I started dating a crazy, and relapsed on Percocet.
The crazy I was dating was abusive and so was my boss, so my using escalated to the point where financially, I had to go back on suboxone to keep my job.
I was on sub for 2.5 years and moved to another city, took a demotional job and tapered and got clean. I was clean for four or five months before spring hit (my biggest trigger!!!) and I relapsed and met my current boyfriend, which I'm grateful for.
Prior to my relapse, I had a spiritual experience so profound that it's another story altogether. However, it's important as its playing into my current perception of life.
I'm now back on subs for the third time. I pray twice per day, exercise, and am healthier than most actual clean and sober people. My doctor (actual doctor) says my vitals are so good they are off the charts. I exercise, dance and do yoga to the point where people assume I am some kind of professional athlete or dancer. At 35, girls in college regularly ask what my major is and where I'm choosing to intern, even though I've recently landed an amazing job, my dream job, in my field and am primed for the rest of my career as a director.
I am determined to get clean and sober, with or without my boyfriend, working with my doctor and my sponsor, no matter what. I also realize God has a plan for me, and I can't rush that plan. I believe I will live clean one day soon, and am happier today in all areas of my life in a way I have never been before. Everything has come together for me - I am an artist, and I now have a studio I the arts district in my town and am gaining a solid reputation as a talented and cool artist. Life has never been better for me!!! I don't take it for granted for a second. I have earned every bit of it with hard work and also plenty of pain.
I think, in my opinion, that God runs my life, and leads me to where He wants me to go. Even though I've chosen detours through multiple relapses, I also believe God intended for me to carry my message to other addicts someday and inspire them to live clean. Mos people in my position would be dead or in prison - I am so, so, so, so grateful, humbled and blessed, and eager to pay God back for all the good he's done for and through me by sponsoring other young women in the program someday,once I am finally clean, once and for all, which I beleieve I will be.
Hope that helps! I don't believe anyone's life is like another's, and we all have a different message to carry in this world to others.
EDIT: if it's helpful at all, I was also VERY HAPPY when I was clean earlier this year and at the end of last year - I felt amazing!! There was a slow physical adaptation process, but I did get through it in a month or two, and then I was fine.
One thing I know for sure: withdrawal and getting clean gets harder with age. So, this coming year, when I do get clean, it will be for good. I'm too old to risk ruining my body, mind and soul over another silly relapse!!!
I was first diagnosed opiate dependent at 20 during a stint in rehab after a thirty day bout with heroin.
Got clean, drank, no opiates for a couple of years.
Got into OxyContin for awhile. Quit, no ill effects. Graduated college magna *** laude and started interning at a reputable firm in a major metropolis.
Towards the end of my internship, I started snorting lortab and Percocet. I remembered how great opiates felt in my early 20s and I wanted to experience that again at 25. Kept up this habit for over a year- it worsened and worsened and worsend ... My career, on the other hand, took off!
This is when I started suboxone for the first time.
Got into NA for the second time, only the lady who sponsored me was unemployed and insane, albeit clean and she liked me. I actually faked moving out of town to escape from what I felt to be a cult atmosphere without respect for personal or professional boundaries.
With my fiance's help, I quit suboxone and nicotine and stayed clean for 18 months, the longest opiate-free period of my adult life since the aforementioned relapse.
My fiancé drank and was an alcoholic, so my alcohol use picked up considerably. We fought and broke up and I started dating a crazy, and relapsed on Percocet.
The crazy I was dating was abusive and so was my boss, so my using escalated to the point where financially, I had to go back on suboxone to keep my job.
I was on sub for 2.5 years and moved to another city, took a demotional job and tapered and got clean. I was clean for four or five months before spring hit (my biggest trigger!!!) and I relapsed and met my current boyfriend, which I'm grateful for.
Prior to my relapse, I had a spiritual experience so profound that it's another story altogether. However, it's important as its playing into my current perception of life.
I'm now back on subs for the third time. I pray twice per day, exercise, and am healthier than most actual clean and sober people. My doctor (actual doctor) says my vitals are so good they are off the charts. I exercise, dance and do yoga to the point where people assume I am some kind of professional athlete or dancer. At 35, girls in college regularly ask what my major is and where I'm choosing to intern, even though I've recently landed an amazing job, my dream job, in my field and am primed for the rest of my career as a director.
I am determined to get clean and sober, with or without my boyfriend, working with my doctor and my sponsor, no matter what. I also realize God has a plan for me, and I can't rush that plan. I believe I will live clean one day soon, and am happier today in all areas of my life in a way I have never been before. Everything has come together for me - I am an artist, and I now have a studio I the arts district in my town and am gaining a solid reputation as a talented and cool artist. Life has never been better for me!!! I don't take it for granted for a second. I have earned every bit of it with hard work and also plenty of pain.
I think, in my opinion, that God runs my life, and leads me to where He wants me to go. Even though I've chosen detours through multiple relapses, I also believe God intended for me to carry my message to other addicts someday and inspire them to live clean. Mos people in my position would be dead or in prison - I am so, so, so, so grateful, humbled and blessed, and eager to pay God back for all the good he's done for and through me by sponsoring other young women in the program someday,once I am finally clean, once and for all, which I beleieve I will be.
Hope that helps! I don't believe anyone's life is like another's, and we all have a different message to carry in this world to others.
EDIT: if it's helpful at all, I was also VERY HAPPY when I was clean earlier this year and at the end of last year - I felt amazing!! There was a slow physical adaptation process, but I did get through it in a month or two, and then I was fine.
One thing I know for sure: withdrawal and getting clean gets harder with age. So, this coming year, when I do get clean, it will be for good. I'm too old to risk ruining my body, mind and soul over another silly relapse!!!
Member
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 4,966
Hello Blue.
I think opio wrote a nice post about long term sub use and the medical aspects of it. I think it is a viable option for some people. Those who really can't avoid relapsing again and again. But your bf doesn't seem to be at that point. At least not by what I read. It's my opinion that the majority of people who struggle from addiction would rather try to live their lives completely free of opies as opposed to being stuck on a medicine for life. With all meds and as opio pointed out, there are side effects. I have side effects after two years on sub. Another risk is addiction. Many Many people become addicted to sub. Tolerance sets in and they need a higher dose. Plus most doctors expect that their patient will be using sub for a certain length of time and encourage their patients to taper off at some point.
I've been on it for two years now....way longer than I thought I would. Lol but am now into my taper.
I think opio wrote a nice post about long term sub use and the medical aspects of it. I think it is a viable option for some people. Those who really can't avoid relapsing again and again. But your bf doesn't seem to be at that point. At least not by what I read. It's my opinion that the majority of people who struggle from addiction would rather try to live their lives completely free of opies as opposed to being stuck on a medicine for life. With all meds and as opio pointed out, there are side effects. I have side effects after two years on sub. Another risk is addiction. Many Many people become addicted to sub. Tolerance sets in and they need a higher dose. Plus most doctors expect that their patient will be using sub for a certain length of time and encourage their patients to taper off at some point.
I've been on it for two years now....way longer than I thought I would. Lol but am now into my taper.
Live it
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: USA
Posts: 255
heyzeus,
The best way to quit any drug or alcohol is to LIVE HEALTHY. Exercise (get that gym membership and use it!!!), eat organic VEGGIES & FRUITS, make sure you're getting the right vitamins and minerals, and drink LOTS of purified water. I also used some herbs and other supplements that were life-savers as well, PM me if interested in details.
The long and short of it is that I've been very happy when clean before, but I'm also very happy right now, and I'm not clean. I think if you're not living a good lifestyle, you're going to feel like crap, no matter what. That's why you hear all of those people in the rooms bitching about their lives: they're overweight, eating crap, living like crap, lazy, unemployed and have low self-esteems because of it (rightly so!).
I know that sounds cold, but hey, life's cold sometimes! Aren't we supposed to be learning how to live life on life's terms, after all? It ain't all roses! If you're fat and sloppy, don't expect to feel good and have the world treat you kindly. That's not how life works.
In short, take excellent care of yourself NOW, and quitting drugs is MUCH EASIER than you could ever imagine!
I can't underestimate the power of PRAYER, MEDITATION & YOGA!!! Structure and discipline are CRUCIAL. Get yourself a healthy schedule and stick to it, NO MATTER WHAT!
I wake up 2 hrs before I start working at the office, and pray, meditate and do yoga for an entire hour at home before taking a shower and getting dressed. Then, when I get to work, I feel refreshed and fabulous!!!
People have always asked me why I'm always so happy, whether I was clean or on suboxone (because I'm happy either way). My answer is that I "live well", and I recommend others do, too!!!
God made us to be sacred vessels of his divine will, suited especially for his divine purpose, and in order to live that will, we have to be free of the bondage of sin (laziness derived from fear/lack of faith being the number one sin!).
So, get a schedule of healthy living, stick to it, and you'll be fine! :-) It's pretty simple.
The best way to quit any drug or alcohol is to LIVE HEALTHY. Exercise (get that gym membership and use it!!!), eat organic VEGGIES & FRUITS, make sure you're getting the right vitamins and minerals, and drink LOTS of purified water. I also used some herbs and other supplements that were life-savers as well, PM me if interested in details.
The long and short of it is that I've been very happy when clean before, but I'm also very happy right now, and I'm not clean. I think if you're not living a good lifestyle, you're going to feel like crap, no matter what. That's why you hear all of those people in the rooms bitching about their lives: they're overweight, eating crap, living like crap, lazy, unemployed and have low self-esteems because of it (rightly so!).
I know that sounds cold, but hey, life's cold sometimes! Aren't we supposed to be learning how to live life on life's terms, after all? It ain't all roses! If you're fat and sloppy, don't expect to feel good and have the world treat you kindly. That's not how life works.
In short, take excellent care of yourself NOW, and quitting drugs is MUCH EASIER than you could ever imagine!
I can't underestimate the power of PRAYER, MEDITATION & YOGA!!! Structure and discipline are CRUCIAL. Get yourself a healthy schedule and stick to it, NO MATTER WHAT!
I wake up 2 hrs before I start working at the office, and pray, meditate and do yoga for an entire hour at home before taking a shower and getting dressed. Then, when I get to work, I feel refreshed and fabulous!!!
People have always asked me why I'm always so happy, whether I was clean or on suboxone (because I'm happy either way). My answer is that I "live well", and I recommend others do, too!!!
God made us to be sacred vessels of his divine will, suited especially for his divine purpose, and in order to live that will, we have to be free of the bondage of sin (laziness derived from fear/lack of faith being the number one sin!).
So, get a schedule of healthy living, stick to it, and you'll be fine! :-) It's pretty simple.
Member
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Colorado
Posts: 1
Subs for pain and elderly withdrawal
This is my first post and I really appreciate any thoughts or experience anyone can share. My mom is 79 years old and has suffered severe back pain for years. She had a couple of surgeries that didn't seem to help. She was on opiate pain meds for years. They switched her to subs 2-3 years ago.
About two years ago I feel I lost my mom. She was now on meds for a tremor in her hands (vermillion tremor?sp?) and her breathing had slowed. They told her it was COPD which I never really believed. I saw her at an event and she was so doped up she was tripping over her feet. She has very bad short term memory and falls asleep mid conversation.
I believe the problem is over medication. We have a number of alcoholics in the family and mom swears she never abused the drugs. I don't necessarily doubt that. I just think she has been on subs way too long. To me she needed to reduce all the drugs no matter if it was addiction or dependency. She was just mentally disappearing before my eyes. She does not have Alzheimer's and her heart is good. She just seems super doped up and she still has pain and tremors.
I have pushed for her to get to less medication overall but she and my dad resisted. About 6 months ago she got severe nausea that doctors couldn't find a reason for. Finally a doctor suggested it could be a reaction to one of her medications and started to wean her off each one.
She is down to half a sub a day and is I excruciating pain and very ill. They have been to doctors several times but they tell her just to tough it out.
Here
is what I am concerned about. Is it really safe for a 79 year old to tough this out at home? Are there any facilities where she would find others like her and not be freaked out by the facility itself? Are we putting her through this for a good reason or will she need to go right back on the subs for her pain?
I can't seem to find anyone in a similar situation and I am desperate to get other's perspectives.
About two years ago I feel I lost my mom. She was now on meds for a tremor in her hands (vermillion tremor?sp?) and her breathing had slowed. They told her it was COPD which I never really believed. I saw her at an event and she was so doped up she was tripping over her feet. She has very bad short term memory and falls asleep mid conversation.
I believe the problem is over medication. We have a number of alcoholics in the family and mom swears she never abused the drugs. I don't necessarily doubt that. I just think she has been on subs way too long. To me she needed to reduce all the drugs no matter if it was addiction or dependency. She was just mentally disappearing before my eyes. She does not have Alzheimer's and her heart is good. She just seems super doped up and she still has pain and tremors.
I have pushed for her to get to less medication overall but she and my dad resisted. About 6 months ago she got severe nausea that doctors couldn't find a reason for. Finally a doctor suggested it could be a reaction to one of her medications and started to wean her off each one.
She is down to half a sub a day and is I excruciating pain and very ill. They have been to doctors several times but they tell her just to tough it out.
Here
is what I am concerned about. Is it really safe for a 79 year old to tough this out at home? Are there any facilities where she would find others like her and not be freaked out by the facility itself? Are we putting her through this for a good reason or will she need to go right back on the subs for her pain?
I can't seem to find anyone in a similar situation and I am desperate to get other's perspectives.
Member
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 347
Carabingo i personally went through a detox facility where they monitored me until the physical part of the withdraw was though. Withdrawls can be life threatening to some. they had me on several pills a day to wen me off subs it wasnt fun but it was the best thing for me.
To the op i was on suboxone for about a year before i detoxed and got clean. It was designed to taper off for a reason and while i understand he's probably acting better and makimg progress theres no reason the progress should stop. Id think the ultimate goal should be to be clean and free again. I found freedom at NA and through the 12 steps. Being on suboxone and being clean are very different and while still using the disease is very much still active. Early on when i started suboxone i mixed it with a few Xanax bars( not knowing the adverse reaction between benzos and suboxone) it caused severe resperatory depression. For the next hour or two if i didn't think about breathing i would stop.
As a addict i layed on the floor with 911 dialed ready to hit send if it got too bad and not wanting to admit to anyone what i had done. I could have died that day....
the opiate in subs binds so strong to the receptors in the brain most othet opiates cant break through i think only fentanly can. when i first took it to be honest i liked it more then oxycottin or lorcets. You can be pretty high off them if you try to be at the same time theres a ceiling effect i believe at 32mg.
The disease of addiction is chronic it gets worse with time. the more we use the worse it gets. With the ceiling effect of suboxone and the cornerstone of being a addict always wanting more. I think suboxone for life will surely lead him to a early grave and nobody wants that to happen.
To the op i was on suboxone for about a year before i detoxed and got clean. It was designed to taper off for a reason and while i understand he's probably acting better and makimg progress theres no reason the progress should stop. Id think the ultimate goal should be to be clean and free again. I found freedom at NA and through the 12 steps. Being on suboxone and being clean are very different and while still using the disease is very much still active. Early on when i started suboxone i mixed it with a few Xanax bars( not knowing the adverse reaction between benzos and suboxone) it caused severe resperatory depression. For the next hour or two if i didn't think about breathing i would stop.
As a addict i layed on the floor with 911 dialed ready to hit send if it got too bad and not wanting to admit to anyone what i had done. I could have died that day....
the opiate in subs binds so strong to the receptors in the brain most othet opiates cant break through i think only fentanly can. when i first took it to be honest i liked it more then oxycottin or lorcets. You can be pretty high off them if you try to be at the same time theres a ceiling effect i believe at 32mg.
The disease of addiction is chronic it gets worse with time. the more we use the worse it gets. With the ceiling effect of suboxone and the cornerstone of being a addict always wanting more. I think suboxone for life will surely lead him to a early grave and nobody wants that to happen.
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