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SUBUTEX terribly afraid,PLEASE HELP W INFO.

Old 09-19-2014, 07:15 PM
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Question SUBUTEX terribly afraid,PLEASE HELP W INFO.

Dear people,I have a dilemma,I was given subutex 2 mg x 20 tablets.
I LIVE IN PARLIN NEW JERSEY USA
I have only used this suboxone once on my own which did not go well.i believe I suffered PWS.
3 months ago I entered summit oaks detox for 6 days and they determine when to admin the strips w the usual taper protocol 8/6/4/2 go home.
retuned home and was using by 48 hrs I was so sick.
NOW my question is I am 90 mgs oxycodone per day W/D starts 4/5 hrs with tears,
I cannot subject my wife to this horror.i am terrified of pws, suboxone med unit info says minimum 6 hrs for oxy or other short opiates.
my wife will not let me go to detox,I joined intensive out pat program,that is the psych doc who dispensed.SUBUTEX 2 mg up to 8 mgs per day for baseline
QUESTION,has anyone heard of someone ex. nurse practioner,x addicts,etc to help with the process.
I don't really want to use it but see no other choice,the doctor is ok with starting low and letting me steer,so I think they do look at each individual rather than detox blanket .
AM I crazy with this idea or does it hold validity .
QUESTION,how long is long enough starting at 2 mgs.
QUESTION,should PWS start after the 2 mgs I understand I can probably ease them w opiate induction.
I JUST WANT TO GET STARTED,W as little trauma to my wife and self.
my 55 yr old body cannot take too much suffering especially since my s 3 disc removal surgery on 6 mos old.
THANK YOU & good karma to all.
I look FOWARD to your answer a,as I believe us addicts are some of the smartest people on earth,it's just a little tweeked the opposite way.

Last edited by POP1; 09-19-2014 at 07:18 PM. Reason: location
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Old 09-19-2014, 07:27 PM
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We can't give you medical advice here I'm afraid Pop.
We're a peer support group not a medical advice board.

Can you contact the Dr or the clinic who I presume prescribed the suibs?

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Old 09-19-2014, 09:09 PM
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Pop1 - coming off of H I got Precipitated withdrawal from taking it at around 24 hours. I wasn't that sick when I took it for reasons that I don't remember. Maybe I took a big dose the night before and slept for half the day or something. Normally, I would have been very sick by 24 hours. That's just my personal experience. I was taking a full strip to start though so it was painful when I went into PWS. I ended up shooting dope shortly thereafter over the sub. That was stupid, and is a great way to OD. I got lucky and missed the bullet on that one.

Is it really unbearable at 4/5 hours out? That would mean you are waking up to dose unless 4/5 hours of sleep is normal. Are you really that scared of Precipitated withdrawal or do you deep down just want to use? Also, what are your plans on coming of the subs?

Can the doctor not do the induction at his office? If you are really that sick at 4/5 hours out I would ask him about that too. Maybe he could give guidance on how sick you should be before dosing.
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Old 09-19-2014, 10:19 PM
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FIRST,thanks so much,for both replies however I was not asking for medical advice just opinions and direct knowledge from experienced folks who understand that because it is written in a book doesn't mean it is how it is.
I take knowledge from a recovering addict B4 a PHD.
yes one of the questions was timing,
the other question was is there such a person in the medical community or recovery community that provides a service to sort of addict sit ,( I thought that if there are people who are pooper scoopers there must be someone).
i don't believe that is a Medical question!if you will
.it is my opinion to go to detox however my wife and therapist insist that it not nesscary.
@5hrs tears start,by 8 hours dizzy anger and cramps in legs,I believe in detox it was about 18 hrs. I can't physically make 24/48, I had massive 3 disc surgery in February and the WDs go directly to there making it unbearable
my plan is to have the doctor remove me fairly rapidly as I do not like or trust that I do not develop a dependency.
I have joined an intensive program 5 days per week 6 hours per day.
the psych doc said mild WDs,would you believe him or someone from here ?
No I do not wish to continue using.i am convinced that my time is now,my life is ****,and I pray that I don't wake up,but yet somehow I know I need to do this this time.
I AM LOSING EVERYTHING,which doesn't matter because I lost myself.
Thanks so much for your experience and time.

Last edited by POP1; 09-19-2014 at 10:21 PM. Reason: forgot
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Old 09-19-2014, 11:14 PM
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POP - I went to two different sub doctors. One was halfway competent and we did the induction at his office. It involved me staying at his office for a few hours and taking increasing doses of the subs until the withdrawal subsided or the max dose was reached. The other doctor was less competent and just sent me home with the bottle. I got precipitated withdrawal with the take home do-it-yourself induction. So, to answer that part of your question - yes, there are sub doctors that do the induction at their office and monitor you in case you go into precipitated withdrawal. The doctor that did it in his office asked me specific questions regarding my withdrawal symptoms to reduce the risk that I was taking it too soon.

When I did the induction at the office I don't remember exactly how long it was since the last dose, but it was significantly less than 24 hours. I was pretty sick (sweating, crawling skin, hot one second and then cold the next). I was not to the point where I was writhing in pain nor did I have digestive 'issues'. It has been a while since then so that is the best of my memory about it. So, in my experience it had to do more with how severe my symptoms were versus how long between doses.

You just need to find an addict with a PHD and then you'll be set!
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Old 09-20-2014, 03:31 AM
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yes PHOBE,that's what I consider most addicts to be.In my life of 54 yrs I have found the most help from those who thought they knew nothing.
in my life recovering people have made the most difference,I can still remember names it was profound.
I know they don't do induction there@the program
HOWEVER from your answer I have been given the info I need to start w my idea.I will call the program TOMOROW and ask if I can either hire a nurse or they can recommend a doctor that does induction.
Also I think you are right about intensity vs time.
and I am sure that attending an NA meeting and asking the question may help.
Thank you for your honesty and willingness.
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Old 09-22-2014, 12:23 PM
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Hey pop. I have been down the induction road more times then I care to admit. I have learned a few things on the way. Induction on to sub is not so much a time component as it is a level of withdrawal. Have you ever reviews the clinical opiate withdrawal sheet (COWS). You evaluate or have someone evaluate your level of classic withdrawal signs. Once you reach a score of 5-13 you are technically ready for your first dose of suboxone. I err on the side of caution and wait until I am 13-15 or so. Some people go all the way to 26. Some folks on here would testify to the fact that I have WAY over researched suboxone. That said I do have my opinions. I think that precip withdrawal mainly occurs with people who are going from methadone to sub. Methadone is a beast. It is a full on agonist with a LOOOOOONG half life. 36 hours I believe.

Personally I have had success taking my last dose of oxy around 6-7pm sleeping. When I wake up around 6 am I am already feeling the effects of withdrawal. I wait another 3-4 hours which puts me at 15-16 hours and then begin my induction. I have done this when up to 150mg of oxy a day and never had precip. For most people I think if you are already feeling a good amount of withdrawal and show some classic signs like sweating, RLS anxiety, you are ready.
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