Lyoness

Hi, it's good to see you post again. And I can relate to what you're saying. For so much of my time on suboxone so far I have had cravings. I also kept in the back of my mind that I could use again if I really wanted or "needed" to. And had the worry and wonder if I was really done using.

I talked to my counselor about this and what she said was really helpful. It was basically one day at a time but somehow, this time it really sunk in. She said I could have all my feelings, my cravings, my worry I am not done, etc. but that I did not have to use in this moment. Somehow I really heard it, got it, this time and I have found it so freeing.

My feelings can be strong, overwhelming, I may not have choice over having the feeling but I DO have choice over what I do with them. I do not have to use right now, I do not have to give into that feeling. I have the power, the control and the freedom, not my feeling or craving.

And remember to play the tape all the way through, too, when you have an overwhelming urge to get high. It might feel good for a short time but then you will be back where you were in no time. You will pick up right where you left off. Do you want to be there? Is losing your recovery worth one high?

I hope this is even remotely helpful. It's because I have spent so much time feeling like you posted about that I want to help. Take care.

Azraehl2112

Wow, you have been through the meat grinder.. several times, it seems, and I am absolutely AMAZED at your dedication to getting clean. I realize that I am EXTREMELY new to sobriety so to speak. I jumped from 1 mg suboxone every other day after an extremely agressive taper from 4mg/day over a 1 month period. Today is my one week anniversary and I feel absolutely fantastic.

I have yet to experience cravings.. I guess mentally for me because in the end I understood I was chasing a high I would never again experience unless I was willing to start mainlining heroine which is a line i just refused to cross.

IN the back of my mind.. there is a memory of pure true blissful joy. The birth of my children, the way my wife looked at me when I raised her wedding veil.. Things that happened looooong before I fell into the black hole of opiate addiction. That joy is UNATTAINABLE on any kind of opiates. The "high" you get is fake in comparison. I liken it to this.. It's like pure happiness is on one side of a cloudy sheet of glass and you are on the other.. you can almost see it.. heck, you can almost TASTE it.. it's like a really pleasant dream you can't quite recall.. but you just can't quite touch it, or feel it, or taste it. It frustrated the absolute mess out of me and it's what drove me to be clean.

All this crap I read about how it's going to take 30 days.. or a year.. or whatever before I am happy again? Sorry but I am calling bunk on that. Day 5 after jumping I felt clarity of mind I hadn't had in almost 2 years. I knew I had made it, and I felt absolutely JOYFUL. I understand about PAWS.. I understand I have a LONG road ahead of me. I know I will not be 100% for awhile, but I do feel true happiness as of today and it's ooommmmggg fantastic.

Just keep this in mind.. the high is fake.. it's not real.. it doesn't taste NEARLY as good as the high of freedom from opiates, and you are sooo close now. Stay strong, and if you continue to have bad luck with people in AA.. Then start your own private group with people you handpick and lay down the law at the getgo that being an AAA (AA A**hole) will NOT be tolerated. After all the horror stories I have read like yours with AA people I am seriously considering doing that myself. I know about 3 people at my work who are anxious to be opiate free. I am going to start checking into self run groups. Gotta be people out there doing it.

Good luck in your recovery! I have faith after reading your posts that you can do this.
-Az

Lyoness

That is such a great reminder, thank you. It is so easy, way too easy, to believe that the only true joy/bliss/euphoria can come from drugs. But it's just not true. And you are so right that there are highs that come from life and love that drugs just cannot touch.

I like your idea of starting your own group. You could check into SMART, AVRT, SOS, etc. as possible formats for your own group. Check out the stickies at the top of the Newcomer's Forum. And welcome to SR!

Knittingcowgirl

So good to hear from you GraceRecovery I'm still on 3/4's of a mg & comfy & I'm going back to my sub dr. I don't want2 buy subs off the street. I got a daylight job which helps my head. Seems getting up in the morning & working shortly thereafter has made such a difference in my mind. My horse Bubba will be home in about 2 weeks. After work the hubby & I finished up setting all the fence posts & the barns almost done. It helps keeping busy. My back pain has returned after years of no hurting, it's proof that sub does help my pain since yrs ago I refused spinal fusion surg. So will see if I can get off subs.
Praying for u dear!! Fight, your worth it!!!

GraceRecovery

Thank you all so much!! Down to 3 mgs and hope to be down to 2 mgs by the end of next week. Severe depression and anxiety. Going to the gym, praying, going to meetings, and working on music occupy my time. Watching a lot of comedy

My life is really empty since I started using at 18 and have been using a long time. I don't have any friends or a partner or children due to addiction. It's easy to get depressed at this point, but it's also easy to feel very hopeful. I have nothing to lose, and everything to gain.

Here's to hoping it works if I work it!!! Thanks, again!

Lyoness

Hi Grace, glad you are still going strong, even with the PAWS symptoms. Hang in there. I am just beginning to realize it is going to take my brain a long time to fully heal and repair itself after so many years of active addiction, too.

I understand the feelings of loneliness. I don't have a lot of friends, partner, or kids (though I knew very early in life that I was absolutely not meant to have kids), either and feel like I don't even want to consider finding a partner right now. My recovery has to be my partner for now and the foreseeable future. Doesn't mean we can't have close friends and other support though. Take care.

Knittingcowgirl

I thought PAWS only happens when you've been off subs for a while not while your still in them? Hmm. I know when I weaned rapidly from 8mgs to 2 mgs My depression was every second of everyday for nearly 2 months. No let up. Like you I kept pushing & I worked, rode my horse,brushed him when I was to weak to ride, I ate & kept busy. & slept pretty decent but it was so hard. I did go to sub dr today & I'm grateful I don't have to buy off the street. My depression somedays is more than I can handle but weirdly I've had 3 of the best days I've ever had. I'd like to wean again & take it much slower now. 3/4's of a mg don't sound like much but it feels nearly the same as when I took 16mgs so that must mean my body's finally comfortable on this dose. I loved reading the posts. I feel like lyoness does about kids. My hubby says " we need 2 talk about kids" I'm 41, battling my demons so why in the hell would I bring a child in this world under those conditions!! Maybe me not having a child will prevent my long family history of addiction. I'm praying for you GraceRecovery & lyoness too!! Your being or trying like heck to be the best you, you can be!! It's hard work! We spent a lifetime doing the wrong things & now were all trying to correct that. I know days sometimes pass so slow it almost feels like we're in reverse but having faith, a good support system & friends here who listen & keep in real helps!! Do u have to wean right now down to 2mgs? I've stayed in 3/4's of a mg for nearly 4 months now & only now am I comfortable. Ty for keeping in touch its nice to know I'm not alone here!!! Your posts & all those that reply give me such hope.
Hugs!!!
Carolyne

Lyoness

Hi cowgirl. That's great that you have found the dose that feels right for you. I have experienced PAWS a lot of the time I've been on suboxone, intense anxiety at first and tons of depression most of the time as well as constant cravings.

Needless to say I was/have been very disappointed to be having PAWS on the medicine that was/is supposed to prevent it. My counselor says she sees this all of the time. It made me feel less alone, and weird, though it made me feel afraid these symptoms would never end.

My subs doctor also explained it to me in a way that made a lot of sense to me. He said withdrawing off opiates causes the same kind of physical/emotional challenges in the body as PTSD does. As I have bad PTSD, he said it made sense that I would experience PAWS. Basically my body wasn't getting as much drug as it was used to and needed, so I have had PAWS.

The good thing is that things have improved for me in the past month or two. Take care.

ashly46

Congratulations to you on getting yourself back on track! Its hard to admit to ourselves someyimes but you seem very intune with your emotions and life. Im very admirable of your story! I hope your still doing well and getting out of that depressive funk. Youre very strong willed and i know you can keep on keeping on. I wanted to get you and others advice on tapering im recently down to 2.5mg a day from 3 and am struggling. It was cake until this point. Is there anything any of you can suggest? I went back up to 3 for today after the past two days at 2.5 and i feel so guilty. Brief history: 8mg a day for 6yrs started tapering a month ago. I went aggressive at first(8 to 4mg) and had no problems. Staying at each new dose for two weeks. Any suggestions on making this easier would be appreciated.

Ollie909

Suboxone sure seems to affect folks differently. I used to dose 1-2 mgs.a day. That was enough. To me very little was powerful. Gave me energy I knew was false. That in itself always scared me a bit, because there is always that payback when you quit. I just lowered my dose to a little sliver, skipping 3 days, take a little sliver, skip and skip 5 days. Here is where I was tired, lack of energy. The payback like I mentioned. But it wasn't bad. I could deal with it. Work and everything else. Just hung in there, take another little sliver.Good for that day. Finally just quit. Had a couple of oxy's to buffer if needed. That's my story. Hope the best to all. Slowly decrease,skip days. Worked for me.

Ollie909

Suboxone sure seems to affect folks differently. I used to dose 1-2 mgs.a day. That was enough. To me very little was powerful. Gave me energy I knew was false. That in itself always scared me a bit, because there is always that payback when you quit. I just lowered my dose to a little sliver, skipping 3 days, take a little sliver, skip and skip 5 days. Here is where I was tired, lack of energy. The payback like I mentioned. But it wasn't bad. I could deal with it. Work and everything else. Just hung in there, take another little sliver.Good for that day. Finally just quit. Had a couple of oxy's to buffer if needed. That's my story. Hope the best to all. Slowly decrease,skip days. Worked for me.

GraceRecovery

I'm down to .5 mg per day and hope to be done within the next couple of weeks. I'm getting a new boss in two weeks and want to start out on the right foot, so I'm going slow and listening to my body.

For the detox process, I'm taking Immodium and Ibuprofen, which actually helps a lot. Also, L-Tyrosine, fish oils and a good multi-vitamin. I'm eating healthy and fresh, and getting at least thirty minutes of walking per day, if not more intense cardio and strength-training.

Also, I have a sleepy strain of Indica that I'm using at night for insomnia, nausea and other withdrawal symptoms. It works like a charm. I definitely recommend using quality cannabis for recovery from opiate addiction until the withdrawal symptoms have abated.

I don't want to spend two fifty per month on my opiate dependency anymore. I'm ready to be finished for good, forever, and to be happy.

GraceRecovery

Also, I'm sorry I haven't been disciplined about posting. There has been a lot going on in my life lately. I ended a long-term relationship and started a new career. Along with my recovery work, I felt the need to pull myself inwards and sort of build a temporary fort around my life for awhile.

GraceRecovery

I'm also looking into taking Valerian Root post-cannabis and will post my experiences with that.

For those of you who do not have experience with L-Tyrosine, it's proven to be a life-saver. Without it, I would not have half the energy I currently have.

Be sure to consult a doctor about detox, always. Even tho I'm doing this on my own, I can't recommend doing anything without a doctor's supervision.

Here's a link to a recent cannabis study with respect to opiate withdrawal: Cannabis Shown To Ease Symptoms During Opiate Withdrawal | Medical Jane

One last thing: I'm also starting Milk Thistle soon to clean my liver and aid in a faster detox. More on that next time .... Milk Thistle is amazing, tho.

Hope you're all well,
Grace xo

liveandlearn

How are you doing i read your posts tomorrow will be day 9 for me havent had good sleep in awhile n im tired of sneezing lol i jumped at around 1 mg

liveandlearn

Is losing your recovery worth one high that has just stuck in my head this past week. When i feel like using i read alot of stories it comforting knowing im not the only one in this kind of hell sorry if that sounds messed up

GraceRecovery

Just a quick update to stay accountable .... November 1 was my last day on opiates. Since then I detoxed with Japanese ceremonial matcha and sencha green tea, water, vitamins and electrolytes. I use Valerian Root to sleep and Cannabis to medicate the worst of WD symptoms so I can get to work everyday and impress my new boss.

Life is pretty rad. I'm so glad to be done with opiates and I experience ZERO cravings with cannabis treatment.

Quitting cannabis December for my sobriety date. Wee!

Life is getting better everyday!

Hope all are well,
Grace xo

GraceRecovery

One last thing ... I got down to .4 mg Sub per day. Then for the last week I took 20 to 40 mg hydrocodone per day to detox some sub out of my system. Highly controversial method but it did allow for me to get a running start so I could almost completely detox over a four-day weekend.

I got a new boss at work and I'm the kind of person who has to work to pay the bills. Can't afford to lose my job because wearing clothes is too uncomfortable that day Call it what you will, my method worked for me!