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Old 03-21-2011, 01:39 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Leveling at "lowest possible dose" Subutex Taper - Need Help!!!

Just started Sub this weekend. I am opening it up out there to see if I can get someone experienced and successful with the "lowest possible dose" leveling FAST taper schedule. Someone that knows this process and all thats required?

I am following the "less is more" philosophy with my sub experience. Starting at the lowest possible dose, leveling for about 4/5 days then tapering 25% every 4th day till I get to below 2mg then doing the "skipping" every other day till done pathway. Anyone familar with Robert's induction schedule on the drugs.com site will know what I am talking about (tried to post link to thread but this site gave me an error).

My first pill was this past Saturday at 9:00a ET. I took 2mg. The 2mg did help with withdrawal as I actually woke up 20min later so was able to fall asleep. It also calmed down my nerve issue (RLS, feeling you are going out of your skin). Because I wasnt sure what I was supposed to feel when "leveled" and because I still felt "flu'ey" I took another 2mg within the hour (I should have waited longer or got out of bed and walked around but I was just trying to get through the withdrawal and not thinking clearly).

The schedule says to stay on the lowest possible dose until you level on the first day but doesnt tell you what indicates you "leveling"? The only info I had to go on was the author of the program I am following strongly indicated noone should level at higher than 8mg - that between 2-6mg was the norm.

So, I was rather disappointed in myself when I finished off the 8mg pill all within a couple hours (by 10:00a I was done). Still had the rest of day and night to look forward too and I still was sweating, feeling "icky". Better, could be productive to the point I could take care of myself without laying in bed all day but not what I thought I should be feeling so obviously I need someone to explain what i need to expect and "accept" on the lower dose.

Yes, I know people usually take much more and I myself was told to take 2 8mg pills a day from the doc I got the Sub script from but he didnt even ask me one question on how much of the DOC I was taking that I was abusing, my life history, etc. It was clear it was a fairly standard "one size fits all" script he gave me. I have also done enough reading on forums to know clinics and doctors over prescribe.

To me, the less you have in your system the better and makes sense if you are going to start tapering in about 5 days from starting? Why would I want to taper from 16mg when i can from 2mg? I only wanted to feel good enough to sleep, work and get through day without that "miserable, cant get comfortable being me" feeling.

So, how do you know when you are at your "leveling" dose if you are doing a less is more approach?

I also had working against me so many posts I had read in past of people raving how much this drug made them "whole" again. That they felt the closest to being sober as being sober itself when they first went on sub. I didnt and dont have that feeling. On 8mg and this being my 3rd day from over a 1100mg Tramadol abuse lifestyle just days before, I still feel in "withdrawal" to a point. Still feel on a drug and still feel "not well". BUT, I am not sick in withdrawal and am off the Tramadol now and have that "truth" on my side. Id like to think I am in "recovery" but need guidance from this point on if I should try to get to 6mg today (not take that last 2mg) and then for tomorrow, what to do. Right now I am 2mg every few hours..Robert recommended spitting your day's quota in 2 halves - morning and afternoon to make it easier tapering. Right now I am at 4X a day. The first day I took it once a day but felt like the balance of the day was alittle overwhelming. It wasnt bad..wasnt sick but didnt feel "sober" and jumping for joy...kinda depressed and still flu(ish). It feels much better yesterday and today..spreading out 2mgs every few hours. Gives me little bumps in mood to look forward too (oops, that may still be my drug behavior talking).

That's another thing..not sure if my "cravings" are gone..atleast not yet as i dont feel that leveling where I can go to next step. Kinda still feel in withdrawal or need somoene to help me with the schedule to "accept" ok..Im at 6mg now.."x" times a day...now look forward to the taper...

anyway, someone out there reading this and can't sift through the bad spelling and rambling...please help me!!! thanks.
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Old 03-22-2011, 09:24 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Dear Sydney,

I applaud your wanting to be 100% clean! Very, very admirable and that is the attitude it takes to get there.

If there is one thing that I read one time, that makes so much sense, it is this...you do not "work" Sub....you let it work on you. I know you want to be pill free as quickly as possible...I do too. I am currently tapering off of Subs. The thing is, there is not really fast route without suffering w/d. If you want to taper slowly, as comfortably as possible, then work with your doctor and let the Sub do its thing. Do this over a several month period and work closely with your doctor. If you do not feel he has your best interests at heart, then try to find another Sub doctor. I went thru 2 before I found a very good one who is really concerned with me beating this addiction.

When starting on Subs...the more you have in your system, the more comfortable you will feel coming off your prior drug. I was comfortable doing 4mg in the morning and 4mg at night. I let bad doctors, trying to manage my pain from bad back surgery, increase me to 24 mgs/day. I would not suggest that high dosage unless you needed it.

I'm sorry that I cannot give you any advice...and I'm not a doctor anyway But, I do feel that your questions are best answered by your doctor. Tell him just what you've told us here...that you want off the Sub as quickly as possible. If he's a good doctor, he will honor your decision and work with you to get you there.
Best of luck to you...you sound determined and you will make it.
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Old 03-22-2011, 03:42 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Hi Bel, thanks for your feedback.

With regard to medical advice. of course, I talk to my doctor and would never simply take someone's advice on the internet without carefully investigating subject at hand with many view points and most important what is best for my body and life. However there is more than just doctors that can help when it comes to drugs and addiction.

I think this site is here to aid people that are looking for more individual, personal experience and suggested tools of recovery. And that is what I am after so (no disprespect at all) but feel I am in the right place with my questions. I have the side of the doctors too...now I am looking to where I think the most truth and results come from, the USERS experience and input. Kinda like when you are buying something...you can go to the maufacturere website and read all the beautful stuff on the product and all the staged "fake" or limited testimony to the greatness of the product. Call the numbers on the TV only to get the pat..so practiced responses. then you can go to the "User Review" section..who do you think you are going to get the best answers from? For my actual health and to protect my body..my doctor of course has my back. but the process of addiction/recovery..well thats a whole other ball game.

For me it is the addict, the person that has been there/done that where I get the most honest and beneficial advice and tools when approaching recovery. ..Especially with the newer drugs like Sub and Tram (newer and complicated) the best road of advice comes from the folk's that have been through it and won.
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