treadingwater

I don't know what to think. I have been told that you can NOT inject suboxone and get high, that it will put you into full withdrawl. I have read on other forums that say that you sure CAN. My son is 21 and a (I want to say recovering alcoholic and drug addict). He has been on suboxone for the past 3.5 months, 8 mg a day. He seemed to being doing well on it. The other evening I confronted him because he was not himself, he seemed to be on something, and was.
He swears he injected his suboxone for a high, that the 8mg were not working as affectively when he took it the correct way. He told me to drug test him if I didn't believe him.
I am at a loss for words. My hopes have been dashed and I am back to square one and no longer trust him. The little trust I had is now gone.

I need to know if anyone on this forum has ever injected suboxone, if so, what was the high like in comparison to taking the suboxone the prescribed way, under your tongue? How long is the high last? How do you feel once the high has left? My son's behavior was so different the other evening from when he took it orally. HE WAS visually high, wobbly, loud, angry and disrespectful, you name. It was just like the old days had returned.
He also said that he had taken his prescribed sleep med too. He takes tralazone? and gabapenten to sleep. I don't know what to believe!!!
That's why I'm hoping that someone on this form can tell me the physical affects of injecting suboxone, besides getting sick.

I just have a lot of questions. I don't want to go down this dark road again.

Ironically the next day he had a doctors appointment.
I didn't know what to do because I knew if I blew the whistle he would be taken off his suboxone, so I kept my mouth shut.
I told my son if he had questions about his suboxone he need to talk to his doctor not me.
It turns out that the doctor increased his dose to 16mg a day and instead of pills he gave him the new film strips that have just come out.
I have decided that if I pay for this precription $$$ I plan to dispense this drug to him. I will literally watch him pop that stip into his mouth and see it disolve or he will not get it that day.

I am sorry for such a long vent.

Dee74

Hi treadingwater

I've never injected subs so I have no personal experience to share.

Regardless of whether this was subs or something else, it's a dangerous practice, and it must be painful for all those who love him and want to see him in recovery.

I'm sorry for your ongoing problems with your son - I'm glad to see you're in our FFSA forum - do you do alanon as well, TW?

I know you've heard this before, but remember always to look after yourself.

D

treadingwater

Thanks Dee,
I am in a parent group at the treatment center my son attends. I really like it. I have not attended any other meetings.

I hope I can get some input to my question I am just trying to learn as much as I can.

screwdope

hey treading water your post really effected me im 26 and been using opiates/shooting heroin for like 5 years now and other drugs before that. and it really effected me i felt like i was listening to my own mom when you had said my hopes are dashed and i dont trust him IM SOO sorry i gotta go to work now put i'll post tomrow i think i can help u stay strong dont get to mad at him just watch him take the pills n remind him he wants to live and goin to get suboxone at the pharmacy is way better deal then going to buy drugs on the street and getting arrested or beat up so remind him that and that u wanna help just that he's gotta meet u half way with the subs. Im also on suboxone right now 12 mg a day ive been on n off for 2 years now but doing better now anyway i'll talk more tomrow stay strong God bless you and your son

screwdope

oh and dont let ur hopes be totally destroyed cause i know when my mom said that i fel like maybe there is no hope. its just the nature of the addiction. and a lot of times ill be takin my suboxone but smoke some pot drink or take other pills but it wont be another,opiate so he's probably not lying. he probably just smoked or drank or his sleeping pills maybe him act funny im not saying doing other drugs is good but thank God he didnt stop the suboxone and go back to opiates or heroin or whatever he was on. im thinkin the strips will be good too but make sure he takes his pills!

screwdope

good job not blowing the whistle cause trust me he needs those subs, the withdrawl is sooooo brutal and he needs to do it on the subs in a crontrolled way my mom pulled that and called the doc luckily he gave me another chance and im doing good now , good luck n God bless

treadingwater

Thank you screwdope for replying to my post. It's been a better week so far. My son's doctor increased his suboxone from 8 mgs a day to 16mg. Wow..$$$ my pocket book sure felt it. OUCH. I wonder if I could buy stock? We were hoping to get the strips but none of the pharmacy's had them, so we still have the pills. I have been giving him his suboxone each day.
My son starts back to school next week so we are hoping that he can get back on my husband's insurance or get insurance through school. We're also hoping the suboxone will be covered, but I will not be surprised if it isn't.
I get really frustrated with my son, his whole mindset right now is to continue taking the suboxone forever. My younger sister, a R.N. and a recovered addict says to let it go, I agree with her, it makes no sense to argue with him and how I think he should be taking less suboxone with the goal of tapering off. He is just not interested at this time. He's always been bullheaded and a free thinker, which is good and bad.
I just hope once his increased dose regulates and he's not feeling whatever he feels he doesn't decided to get the needle out. It's one thing to be on suboxone, but I do not want him abusing it.
I'm glad that you are doing well with your suboxone and recovery I do understand that staying clean is a daily challenge and choice.
My sister has been clean for almost 10 years. Back in the day she was getting high off fentenal (sp), and basically anything she could get her hands on. She said she prayed that God would take her addiction away and she said for the longest time she struggled...but now she rarely thinks about using...it's a faded memory. I am praying that my son will get to a point in his life where he will be clean from everything.

PalmTrees

Hi treadingwater... I'm sorry to hear of your situation with your son. I'm glad this week has gone better-I'll send good thoughts to you and your family.

I don't mean to hijack your post-but I have personal experience with suboxone. My doc told me-(and everything I read supports this) that yes, it will make him very sick to shoot suboxone. If your son swallows it, chews it or does anything orally other than take it sub-lingually, it will have no effect on him. It's designed work only if it is absorbed through the veins under the tongue. It also curbs those cravings for opiates. Maybe subconsciously he's doing better and that's why he's not ready to think about getting off it. About getting 'high' -he can't get high off it. I was on 8mg/2mg 3x a day. (a very high does-I was on high doses of hydrocodone for a few years) and it did make me really sleepy. I could drop off sitting up. My doc said maybe 1% of people got really sleepy from this med, but no other side effects. I never felt 'high' but there were times I felt like I was in a fog--and again, I'd sleep and then feel fine. My insurance paid for my prescription but not for the doctors visit. Go figure!

Another little known fact.... suboxone is, in some states, used & prescribed for pain, just like opiates are. And I can vouch for that....I got addicted to hydrocodone when I had 3 major foot surgeries. I went off the opiates about a week after my last one, went on suboxone and had no problem with post-op pain. About 5 months into my sobriety, they found I had severe nerve damage in my hands and had to have carpal tunnel, wrist and hand nerve reconstruction surgery. The ortho surgeon knew of my addiction, and since my mom would be staying with us, he recommended I go off suboxone, my mom dispense my meds, and have 2 surgeries because what I was having done was extensive and he'd never known anyone to do it without pain meds. My counselor at the time agreed with this plan. I said nope, I wanted to try it without any narcotics-and if I was going do it I wanted to do it one time only. While the dr. who prescribed my suboxone was confident I'd be fine and have no post op pain, no one else was comfortable. Sub dr. said to take Advil,Tylenol and if I needed to for about 5 days I could take an extra suboxone pill every day for the pain. I did choose to taper down a bit prior to surgery--just in case they had any problems(because the nerve damage was so severe) then it would be easier to overcome the suboxone if they needed to, but I was fine. The surgeon tried to give me a script-I refused it. He told me at my follow up he really expected me to call him on day 2 after surgery. And he wished all his patients were as honest and forthright -and stubborn-as I was. It made my day!

I hope this was somewhat helpful to you...if you have any other Q's, let me know. And please let us know how your son, you and your family are all doing. Don't forget to take care of yourself.

PalmTrees


PS I've been off it for a while--I tapered off as the doc instructed-I was fine. one thing he told me was to keep a few extra pills in my medicine cabinet-for 'mental support' in case I had a few cravings--it was a good support to know I could take a quarter of a pill if I needed to.

treadingwater

Hi Palmtrees I'm glad you are doing well and thank you for your suggestions about keeping a couple pills as back up in the medicine cabinet. I hope one day my son will get to the point of where he wants to taper. It sounds like you have great will power. I think that for now my son is just wanting to get on track and get some positive stuff going on in his life, he starts back to school next week. My husband and I are caustiously optimistic....we want to see his words put into action. Seeing is believing.

I can't begin to imagine suffering with chronic pain and dealing with an addiction. It is sad to see how many people become addicted to their pain pills having no intention of becoming addicts. Having to suffer and deal with chronic pain is a whole new challenge. Yes, I was surprised to see how many doctors administer suboxone for pain. I admit I am very uneducated when it comes to medications and street drugs I am slowly learning.
Others have told me that you can not abuse suboxone via IV. because of the opiate inhibitor that is in it. I have googled and found forums that have people bragging about injecting suboxone. Yes some have become very sick and others have gotten a high.
The internet is a great tool, but the downside is you can find a lot of bad on it. Not good for young people that are easily influenced and risk takers.
We were hoping to get the film strips but they are so new on the market the pharmacy's did not have any. I'm hoping next month we can get them. I will call in advance and place an order. God know's we pay enough for the stuff.

Thanks again!

PalmTrees

Hi treading water--cautiously optimistic is the operative phrase... and it makes sense he wants to get his feet solid before thinking about tapering off--I think thats a good sign. It does hit the pocketbook pretty hard.... I was very very lucky. There is a wealth of good information on the internet--as with anything out there you just have to be careful and know the source. Treadingwater--I tend to doubt the word of those who claim they got high injecting sub. Its specifically designed to make one ill -plus, as you know, addicts will say ANYTHING-trying to convince you(not specific, in general) of something when they're really just trying to convince themselves.... kind of a game they play.

Your son is very lucky he has a mother and father willing, and able to stand by him... he probably doesnt always remember that. By the way-how is he doing? I hope things are at least the same,if not better.... good thoughts and prayers to you and your family.
PalmTrees

treadingwater

Palmtrees things are going okay this week. I'm still idling after last weeks drama. My son starts school this week so I am really hoping that will be something he dives into. He seems ready and excited about getting back into school, but only time will tell.
I'm so ready to move on to a better life. I am physically and mentally tired of the toll of living in this world. I am contantly feeling drained and have little energy and I'm not a lazy person. It's hard to detach from someone you love, especially a child. Sometimes I wish he was 10 years older, instead of this 21 almost 22 year old know it all. LOL!!!

PalmTrees

Hey treadingwater--SO happy you've had an okay week--and I'm glad to hear your son is excited about school. Keeping him busy is KEY. And his excitment shows his mind is somewhere else-not devoted to the drug. I know what you mean about feeling drained--drama takes it out of you doesn't it? It's funny how something that not physical-I mean, its more mental/emotional, can take it out of you physically, isn't it? It'll get better--sometimes you need that down time-it's ok to just do nothing. Your body is telling you something-listen to it. Through all of this, you need to take care of YOU--don't forget YOU! Hope your week is better---Hang in there....PalmTrees

Rtyuii

The suboxon film is the best way to go . You can't abuse it in film form . They are offering $75 off prescription each month until march . The pharmacies should be able to order them for you ! Hope this helps

PalmTrees

Treadingwater has tried to get the strips (post #7) but no pharmacies in the area can get them. She's patiently working on it....

Angelic17

Treadingwater, My son was also on suboxone at one time. It is very dangerous to shoot it, and I'm pretty sure you can't get high on shooting it. Suboxone doesn't make you high period. It just stops the withdrawals from the other opiates. If I am not mistaken, there is someting call Narcan in it, that prevents you from getting high. I'm not positive so don't quote me on this. I remember a doctor talking to me about this drug a long time ago. My son has never tried shooting it. But he took suboxone for a while. He said it made him feel weird.

Did you ever think that maybe your son had used something else and didn't want to tell you the truth? The disease of addiction is accompanied with lying and conniving. The lying is all part of it. I feel bad for you because I know what your going through. I have been there with my son and the opiates. It's not easy.

You cannot control your son or stop his drug use. It's up to him. I didn't want to believe that so for 3 years I tried to control my son. It was a waste of time and energy. I got sick from trying. It definitely didn't work. It's impossible. Only your son can decide if he is going to use or not. The only person that I can control is myself. Naranon is a very helpful place for parents like us. I learned alot there in the two or three meetings I had attended.

I do know that before the suboxone there was a drug called subutex. I'm pretty sure that is the one that was used for shooting up, so they stopped making it, and made suboxone instead. You would be best off contacting a treatment center, and asking them about misuse and abuse of suboxone. Those people would know better than anyone. I sure hope your son gets well, and decides to turn his life around in the right direction. There is alot of help and hope for addiction these days. Hang in there.

baggervance

I was on suboxone for few months when I used it right it was great but I soon started snorting mine and it was worst experience of my life. Suboxone did get me high and it made me vio;ently ill but I kept on like addicts do. I quit at 4mgs and its the hardest withdrawal I ever did took 34 days to get over all the symptoms. This is just my opinion but it is an evil drug I would start weaning down as soon as he can and quit.

rendo

I've been using Suboxone for 3 years now. I went from a very high dose (24 mg. per day) to my current 1 mg. per day.

I have tried shooting it. Yes, it does work, as long as you haven't taken any other opiates within the past few hours. If you have, you will probably experience withdrawal because of the Naloxone.

Angelic17 is correct about the Subutex; that's a version of the drug without Naloxone. It's very rarely prescribed here in America, though I've met people from France who got it there.

About your son: You should not support him. Let him decide for himself if he wants to take the consequences of using drugs. If you pay for his drugs, his school and his housing he will never quit and you will die of stress. On the other hand, if you don't pay for his Suboxone and he starts using heroin then you must NOT let him stay with you. He will steal things from you and will lie to you.

The best way to deal with a loved one is to try to encourage them to get help without enabling them to continue on your dime.

Worried about him OD'ing or going to jail? That's a tough one, because both of those are very real risks of the life of a drug addict. You must realize that you aren't responsible for the choices he makes after a certain age. Cut the apron strings. Be strong and help him if he is willing to make sacrifices.

If you have any other questions about my experience as a drug user, feel free to ask. I lived on the streets for several years and shot cocaine and heroin mostly, but I have experience with almost every kind of drug and the various ways that addicts go about procuring their daily fix.

FYouZZY

Recovering addict here to tell you:

1. you can shoot suboxone without going into withdrawl
2. it will get an addict "high" as in...where he needs to be without using opiate/opiod agonists aka heroin/oxy

when i first got clean...by the end of my first month on suboxone i started shooting it. unfortunately...iv users (if they use for an extended time) will end up with a needle addiction as well as an opiate/opiod dependency as well. sick isn't it!?!?!?

i have been on subutex for 3 years...buprenorphine 5 total. i dont plan on getting off anytime soon...right now im just dropping my dose every 6 months or so by 1/2mg. im down to 4mg/day from 16. i feel it is the best way for me to do it.

treadingwater...your post caught my eye bc i can only imagine what i put my own mother through. but trust me when i say this...he will not stop for good until he hits his bottom (if he is a true addict). try not to enable him...and let him learn that he will have to pay for his consequences. re: the co$t...yes...it is unreal. subutex has a generic that is cheaper but as rendo stated...docs dont like rxing subutex (im the only one i know who gets it). also GOOD JOB HOLDING BACK ON THE WHISTLE BLOWING...that would get him blacklisted (unofficially) from docs in the area. ive seen it happen here several times.

the suboxone film is definitely an ideal option for you...but it will be expensive. i just saw it for the first time today. oddly enough...my friend who got it was looking to shoot it...meh...whattarugonnado.

as rendo did...please feel free to ask me any questions. i am an excellent example of an addict who pulled it together and is on right track. finally got my degree...going for my masters...9-5 suit and tie...and most importantly...i can look my mom in the eyes and not be ashamed.

there is hope...be there for him...but dont be there for him...if that makes sense.

casinofromky

do not inject. I had a friend that blew her arm up doind it and went straight n to WD and almost died due to potassium drop. she been in hosp for two months! The naloxene is what makes u go to wd dont do it. Just take the sub strips and take three a day for two days then two a day and they work. Been on for 8 days and i feel great i was doin 20 plus 30's a day.

treadingwater

Thanks all.

I really don't know what my son is doing now in terms of misusing his suboxone. I don't think he is injecting it at this moment. I do know he has been drinking alcohol...beer. He thinks he can moderate...yah right. He told us he was going to an A/A meeting the other evening, which I questioned, since has not gone to one in a while, and he was quick to come back at me with what do you think I'm going to do get drugs??? He came home later and was visually drunk at the least tipsy. He insists he was not, that he only had one beer...LIE, LIE, LIE. HIS REALITY IS NOT TRUE REALITY.
He has been lying to us again and I know he will be moving out in the beginning of December, since he will be getting a small settlement. I am deeply saddened AGAIN and feel like we are back on that dark road going in the wrong direction. Of course he totally disagrees. In the last month I have really noticed an attitude change...he isolates himself, is disrespectful and demanding and wants no accountability.
He says he will stop taking suboxone and switch to methadone to save money. As a mom I try not to worry and tell him I am going to detach. That if he goes down this road again we will not be on the train with him. We were really hoping he had hit his rock bottom.
He does not see himself being able to stay clean. He had been in a program since June and seemed to be doing well, going to 12 step meetings, which he hates. At that time he seemed to be coming out of the cloud and slowly becoming himself again.
He see's things in black and white and has said continually that treatment center is B.S. that everyone in the center is not clean if they are on suboxone. Almost everyone in his group has relapsed.
Sorry for the vent.
Hay can anyone tell me how long track marks last? How about the bruises? My son implied that they will last forever. Of course if that's the case he could keep injecting and have an excuse for his bruises. I know he thinks we are stupid, but I've gotta believe the bruises clear up over time. I can see scaring but bruises?????

Thanks everyone!