Taking Suboxone for cravings
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Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: NY NY
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Taking Suboxone for cravings
I am doing my second stint on Suboxone. I have been reading a lot of nightmare stories about people who cannot get off the subs, and I am determined to not let that happen to me. My plan is to get off these as quick as possible. I am not a MD but I am in the medical field and I know a little bit about opiate addiction. I think that one of the main reasons that people get into trouble with the suboxone/subutex is that they start to take it to diminish cravings. As opiate addicts, we are all probably self-medicating something and it is silly to think that we will be 'normal' when we stop taking opiates. It is going to take a long time for our bodies to adjust. If we ruin this adjustment period by taking suboxone, our bodies will just grow accustomed to having another similar chemical on our opiate receptors. Remember, one of the reason we feel like crap after coming clean is because our body downregulates our opiate receptors (since we were so kind as to flood our brains with 'happy stuff' for so long!). It seems to me that the only way to get our receptors back would be to be clean for an extended period and to address what ever issues were causing us to self-medicate.
I am not totally against suboxone. I tried to taper myself off without them but could never resist seeing my dealer and not getting 1 or 2 strong pills. Suboxone is much nicer on my wallet and, I think, my body.
I am on Day 4 of Suboxone. My doses went like this: Day 1:20 mg (with a little precipitated withdrawal), Day 2:16 mg, Day 3:8mg and so far I took 4mg on Day 4. My plan is to take as little as I need to keep away the withdrawal.
I will let you know how I am doing later on this week...I am sure that final hump, or getting to 0mg, will be the toughest. I think I am going to call my Dr. to get some 2mg pills to make it easier.
I appreciate any thoughts/comments. Reading the posts on this website have been very helpful, so thanks to all
I am not totally against suboxone. I tried to taper myself off without them but could never resist seeing my dealer and not getting 1 or 2 strong pills. Suboxone is much nicer on my wallet and, I think, my body.
I am on Day 4 of Suboxone. My doses went like this: Day 1:20 mg (with a little precipitated withdrawal), Day 2:16 mg, Day 3:8mg and so far I took 4mg on Day 4. My plan is to take as little as I need to keep away the withdrawal.
I will let you know how I am doing later on this week...I am sure that final hump, or getting to 0mg, will be the toughest. I think I am going to call my Dr. to get some 2mg pills to make it easier.
I appreciate any thoughts/comments. Reading the posts on this website have been very helpful, so thanks to all
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Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Middle of MO
Posts: 666
Glad to have you aboard. When I read your post, I thought you answered your own questions. Given that this is your second run at suboxone, aren't you becoming aware that, perhaps your way might not be the best way? It sounds as though you should give a bit of thought to where you are in life and what you want to accomplish.
It is true that suboxone can be used as a detox drug. However, most opiate addicts (like myself) end up with lots of experience stopping our drug use. The problem is always staying stopped. Those of us who are fortunate enough to live long enough eventually learn to accept that we cannot do this on our own.
Stopping our cravings is exactly what suboxone can do for us, so we can function in life and begin to work on changing ourselves from within. One of the fastest ways to sabotage ourselves is to buy into false notions, such as viewing ORT as "trading addictions" or imposing ridiculous time and/or dosage restraints upon ourselves. I know exactly where you are coming from, because I have done exactly the same things!
I have a problem with honesty, especially to myself. At my core, I want to believe that I know what is best for myself. In today's society, we can all receive validation for such beliefs. What helped me (and I certainly did not see it as "help") was being confronted by, "if you are so goddamned smart, why are you here?" "Here" for me was broke, with no job, in trouble with the laws, and unable to control my drug use. It takes a lot of pain for most of us to learn to shut up and listen.
I truly hope that you are getting your suboxone from a doctor and not off the street. I suggest you do so0me research on the differences between addiction and dependence. It is true that *some* folks have trouble getting off suboxone, but plenty of folks do. Most of us are somewhere in between, and are doing great. The only way I know to succeed is to get busy with recovery, which means counseling, support groups, and a lot of soul-searching. The emphasis needs to be on changing you, not how much medication you are on, or for how long. After all the years of screwing around, I finally began to see that, if I worked on me, everything else tended to work out. It is not easy, but it is FAR easier than playing games and watching your life go down the crapper!
It is true that suboxone can be used as a detox drug. However, most opiate addicts (like myself) end up with lots of experience stopping our drug use. The problem is always staying stopped. Those of us who are fortunate enough to live long enough eventually learn to accept that we cannot do this on our own.
Stopping our cravings is exactly what suboxone can do for us, so we can function in life and begin to work on changing ourselves from within. One of the fastest ways to sabotage ourselves is to buy into false notions, such as viewing ORT as "trading addictions" or imposing ridiculous time and/or dosage restraints upon ourselves. I know exactly where you are coming from, because I have done exactly the same things!
I have a problem with honesty, especially to myself. At my core, I want to believe that I know what is best for myself. In today's society, we can all receive validation for such beliefs. What helped me (and I certainly did not see it as "help") was being confronted by, "if you are so goddamned smart, why are you here?" "Here" for me was broke, with no job, in trouble with the laws, and unable to control my drug use. It takes a lot of pain for most of us to learn to shut up and listen.
I truly hope that you are getting your suboxone from a doctor and not off the street. I suggest you do so0me research on the differences between addiction and dependence. It is true that *some* folks have trouble getting off suboxone, but plenty of folks do. Most of us are somewhere in between, and are doing great. The only way I know to succeed is to get busy with recovery, which means counseling, support groups, and a lot of soul-searching. The emphasis needs to be on changing you, not how much medication you are on, or for how long. After all the years of screwing around, I finally began to see that, if I worked on me, everything else tended to work out. It is not easy, but it is FAR easier than playing games and watching your life go down the crapper!
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Join Date: Apr 2010
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thanks for your reply, tsmba
I guess I did answer most of my questions, but that was not my intention. I just wanted to hear from others with experience if they take suboxone to handle their cravings, even after they get down to a low dose. I did this last time and had a hard time getting off the subs. I do not necessarily support the notion that taking suboxone is trading one addiction for another. I have a lot of respect for all of the people in this forum who are trying to better themselves and was not trying to be judgmental. I guess I just wanted to hear someone say: "Dont take the subs for your cravings, instead you should get to the root of the cravings and handle them once and for all!"
Yes, I know, easier said than done!
Also, just to respond to your concern, I am getting suboxone from a Dr. and I do realize the importance of counseling, meetings and other support. Again, thanks for your reply, i appreciate that you took the time to give such a thoughtful response.
I guess I did answer most of my questions, but that was not my intention. I just wanted to hear from others with experience if they take suboxone to handle their cravings, even after they get down to a low dose. I did this last time and had a hard time getting off the subs. I do not necessarily support the notion that taking suboxone is trading one addiction for another. I have a lot of respect for all of the people in this forum who are trying to better themselves and was not trying to be judgmental. I guess I just wanted to hear someone say: "Dont take the subs for your cravings, instead you should get to the root of the cravings and handle them once and for all!"
Yes, I know, easier said than done!
Also, just to respond to your concern, I am getting suboxone from a Dr. and I do realize the importance of counseling, meetings and other support. Again, thanks for your reply, i appreciate that you took the time to give such a thoughtful response.
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Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Australia
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I'm not a sub user but as I understand it, if you're taking it as prescribed by a doctor there will be directions to follow.
I find taking directions on my meds a lot better than what I used to do when I self medicated lol.
As for the philosophical debate - my only comment is that subs have been very helpful for a lot of members here in getting to a point where they start to rebuild their lives
D
I find taking directions on my meds a lot better than what I used to do when I self medicated lol.
As for the philosophical debate - my only comment is that subs have been very helpful for a lot of members here in getting to a point where they start to rebuild their lives
D
Last edited by Dee74; 04-19-2010 at 05:55 PM. Reason: wrong thread
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Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: minneapolis, mn
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newdoor,
getting to the root is, of course, the right idea. for some, they relapse so often, that they can't really get there though. i think the sub takes away that edgy, cravey feeling that gnaws at you till you can't stand it anymore. many people have found success with opt.
best to you
getting to the root is, of course, the right idea. for some, they relapse so often, that they can't really get there though. i think the sub takes away that edgy, cravey feeling that gnaws at you till you can't stand it anymore. many people have found success with opt.
best to you
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Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Middle of MO
Posts: 666
Glad to hear that you are putting some thought into this. I think a lot of folks approach suboxone thinking of it as being some sort of cure: take the pills, taper off, voila! In my experience with suboxone, and with methadone, successful treatment de-emphasizes the medication, and focuses on the behavioral changes. Of course we don't hear many failure stories on forums and in groups, mostly because these individuals often don't return. Of the ones who do come back, one of their themes tends to be that they 1) neglected support groups and counseling, and 2) they tinkered with their dose.
I would suggest that your best option would be to discuss your concerns with that doctor. Approaching maintenance with the attitude that you want to minimize your dose and time in treatment is probably a recipe for trouble. I have never heard that tapering success has much to do with whatever dose was required in treatment. Working closely with your doctor should help determine your "correct" dose (the lowest amount that prevents withdrawal and cravings). Once stabilized, doing one's best while working towards developing the support system they'll need while working on their own issues will probably be the shortest path through treatment. Of course that will all be in the future, and when that time comes, THEN a discussion of tapering options with your doctor will be appropriate.
I screwed myself up for many years by trying things *my* way, and hated to hear this same kind of advice. What changed? The only answer I have is that I had "outside intervention" from a Higher Power. For me, there was no tah-dah moment, it occurred slowly. And, as I am trying to convey to you, the "keys" were available to me all along!
I would suggest that your best option would be to discuss your concerns with that doctor. Approaching maintenance with the attitude that you want to minimize your dose and time in treatment is probably a recipe for trouble. I have never heard that tapering success has much to do with whatever dose was required in treatment. Working closely with your doctor should help determine your "correct" dose (the lowest amount that prevents withdrawal and cravings). Once stabilized, doing one's best while working towards developing the support system they'll need while working on their own issues will probably be the shortest path through treatment. Of course that will all be in the future, and when that time comes, THEN a discussion of tapering options with your doctor will be appropriate.
I screwed myself up for many years by trying things *my* way, and hated to hear this same kind of advice. What changed? The only answer I have is that I had "outside intervention" from a Higher Power. For me, there was no tah-dah moment, it occurred slowly. And, as I am trying to convey to you, the "keys" were available to me all along!
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Join Date: Apr 2010
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Posts: 8
tsmba
I did go to a doctor, but he wasn't so helpful with telling me how to take the meds. He just gave me a script for 60 8mg pills and didnt even tell me about precipitated withdrawal. From what I have read on some forum (maybe this one), many suboxone doctors are not too knowledgeable about recovery.
Now, I guess I am being somewhat silly because I live in an area where there are a lot of doctors and if I had another issue (like a torn ACL) I would try to find the best available doctor. I picked my doctor based on accessibility and cause I knew I wouldnt run into anyone I know.
That being said, I feel confident in doing things this way because I have a counselor to speak to about my dose and a strong family support system. The only tinkering I did was in finding a dose that is right for me. From what I can gather, the shorter amount of time I am on subs then the easier it will be to get off. I guess you are saying that I have to be ready or I will just relapse again....is that correct?
I did go to a doctor, but he wasn't so helpful with telling me how to take the meds. He just gave me a script for 60 8mg pills and didnt even tell me about precipitated withdrawal. From what I have read on some forum (maybe this one), many suboxone doctors are not too knowledgeable about recovery.
Now, I guess I am being somewhat silly because I live in an area where there are a lot of doctors and if I had another issue (like a torn ACL) I would try to find the best available doctor. I picked my doctor based on accessibility and cause I knew I wouldnt run into anyone I know.
That being said, I feel confident in doing things this way because I have a counselor to speak to about my dose and a strong family support system. The only tinkering I did was in finding a dose that is right for me. From what I can gather, the shorter amount of time I am on subs then the easier it will be to get off. I guess you are saying that I have to be ready or I will just relapse again....is that correct?
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Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Middle of MO
Posts: 666
Pretty much. The best way to reduce the time in treatment is to work hard at recovery: groups, counseling, etc. Sorry to hear about the half-ass doctoring. You know, in order to prescribe suboxone, doctors must complete a course and get a unique DEA number. Theoretically, this doc should know better. I guess you have two choices: change to a better doc (often not an option), or talk to him or her, let them know you are serious about recovery and have failed once, and demand they give you the direction you deserve. Tell them about your concerns. I disagree (somewhat) that being on it longer makes it tougher to get off. There are no hard and fast rules. There is info and support available, you can PM me if you'd like some addresses (its against the rules to post web links on here).
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