can't get high on methadone?

[coffeedrinker]

Ok, I have read over and over again that if you are on a correct dose of methadone it will act as a blocking agent, and also take away physical cravings.

But, isn't this just true for the craving for opiate use? I understand that piece, but when I hear a blanket statement about "can't get high no matter how much they try" it confuses me. For instance, doesn't the desire to just get high transfer to other drugs that DO work while on methadone? (alcohol, cocaine-derived and amphetemine-derived drugs??)

[kj3880]

Well, it's complicated. My wonderful addictionologist doctor has explained to me that there is a center in your brain that creates the craving sensations, and that suboxone and methadone affect this center, blocking all sorts of cravings. Even for food and cigarettes.

But there are addicts who continue to use cocaine or other drugs while on opiate blockers anyway. Perhaps that is because even though we don't get the biochemical, physical cravings, our thought processes are still those of an addict.

That is why we need another program in addition to the medications to stay off of other drugs. The fellowship you experience at NA can help with the thought processes that can override the blocked cravings, in my opinion and experience. So can step work.

Love,
KJ

[box3]

You can get high on and from methadone. I don't recommend it, you can easily OD and the withdrawal is protracted.

[tsmba]

Once a certain dosage level is reached, the blocking effect comes in force. The methadone will prevent feelings of euphoria from any opiate. With a bit of time, this will prevent any pleasure from opiates, although they can still provide analgesia.

A proper dose will prevent cravings for opiates, but not other drugs of abuse.

[freddie4621]

I have to disagree with KJ about getting high on methadone. Yes, no matter what the dosage you may still want to get high. Many patients just buy extra methadone. I mean, it in itself can get you quite toasted. And then there's all that other stuff that boost the methadone. Any CNS depressant will do it. Most likely benzos like xanax, ativan, klonopine etc. He will NOT feel heroine, but he will feel the stronger opiates, especially if he mixes them with Benzos. Talk to his counselor. and try and see if you can get some ground rules in place.

[tsmba]

That ability to experience euphoria (from opiates) goes away quickly as you approach a stable dose. Unfortunately, getting a handle on our opiate addiction doesn't give us a pass on using other drugs of abuse. Many of us have been poly-drug abusers and have lots of practice switching addictions. Stopping one or more drugs doesn't "cure" the underlying disease.

I went the whole gamut. The first time I did rehab, I was convinced my problem was cocaine. I'd never had problems with booze, pot, etc. and thought I had "learned my lesson" and could safely use other drugs. The problem is that (if you live long enough) you eventually run out of drugs to try. Opiates came later, but I ultimately repeated the same behavior patterns. Some addicts are able to stop all drugs, then get into gambling, excess spending, or other addictions. The point is that, unless and until we take the often-painful steps of addressing our underlying disease, we are sitting ducks for relapse of some sort.

[skroomadoom]

I've never heard the claim that methadone prevents you from getting high on ALL drugs -- I believe it is just supposed to stop you from getting high on opiates. I've heard that the "blocking" effect doesn't kick in unless your dose is at least 80mg though, so a lot of people who are below that dose unfortunately continue to get high and just use the methadone so they don't have to worry about getting sick.

I saw that someone mentioned using benzos with methadone earlier and even though I know they weren't suggesting it I want to make clear that this is EXTREMELY dangerous. Even if you have a huge opiate tolerance combining methadone and benzos can easily put you under.

[XStacyReneeX]

I've been taking methadone since april 15,2008. You don't get high on it after you build an immunity and I personallly do not think about taking any other drug. It has helped me a lot, but on the other hand I now have to get off of it. It was the best decision for me, but maybe not for some. Other opiates are easier to get off of, but I needed the methadone maintenance in order to be able to attend group and get my mind ready before enduring the physical. I'm very scared to come down and am currently switching to suboxone until the methadone is out of my system..then i'll come down from that. I'm already addicted anyway and I hear the suboxone is easier to come off of, so I think it's my best bet. But what's good for some is not always good for others.(And no you can't get high on opiates once you reach a certain dosage of methadone..usually 40 or more, but everyone is different).

[Callie]

You can get high with MORE methadone /// correct? I think I know the answer to my own question. Methadone will block opiates, but it won't block MORE methadone will it??

[tsmba]

No, you won't get high on more methadone (once you are on a "blocking dose"). That amount varies among individuals, but is somewhere around 50mg/day. The euphoria we seek from opiates is effectively blocked well before analgesia.

[coffeedrinker]

I am pretty sure that my abf is supplementing his methadone dosage. Why? I guess that even if you don't get the euphoria (like with the heroin) you probably are still mood-altering.....right? I thought that when he got up to the right dose he would adjust and not be super sleepy, noddy at night, but now I am thinking he is going and getting his dose, and also buying off the street, just to stay buzzed, or numb might be a better term. I am not a user so I don't really get a lot of this. But I am smart, and I do see flags every once in awhile. Maybe if he is in transition, I should back off, after all he's not putting himself in dangerous places, he is kind, decent, helpful, at home, he is not shooting up, snorting or smoking meth....sounds like I'm minimizing, but I'm just not clear on what to think.

[tsmba]

I experienced a slight buzz off methadone the first few days I was on it. After that, I never felt any changes. Dose increases are small and incremental and never produced any emotional effects. Using other opiates while on methadone (once stabilized) doesn't produce euphoria, but the blocking effect doesn't affect other drugs.

[coffeedrinker]

Originally Posted by tsmba

Dose increases are small and incremental and never produced any emotional effects. Using other opiates while on methadone (once stabilized) doesn't produce euphoria, but the blocking effect doesn't affect other drugs.

There are no other drugs going on. His UAs have been clean for two months (he's already getting take homes). But they would not show "extra" methadone I am guessing. So, if above quote is true, why, in anyone's opinion, would he be supplementing the clinic dose?

[tsmba]

There could be several reasons: sometimes patients will take extra doses trying to get high. Another reason might be that their dose is too low and they are trying to avoid withdrawals or cravings. There are blood level tests that can be performed, but the usual screenings simply detect the presence of certain metabolites. Different drugs will be detectable for varying lengths of time, and patients intent on cheating can be quite adept at beating them. Another possibility is that something not even related to drug use could be causing whatever concerns you.

[Dee74]

My advice is the same as it always is CD...

You've clearly invested a lot of time and energy into your BF and what he's doing or not doing - I hope that's not to your detriment.

Focus on you - if he's doing the right things, you'll know...if not, you'll know that too.

Hows the him looking for his own place thing going?
D

[coffeedrinker]

Oh, Dee, I have told myself the same exact thing. I am fine for days, weeks, then something sets me off, my imagination (sometimes) kicks in, and I just don't wanna trust the guy if he is not walking the straight and narrow. I mean, it's not about control anymore, I just don't wanna be duped. If he's not working the program the way it's set up, that's it - you can't be around. But the million dollar question is always the same: how the heck do I know? Years ago, before we were a couple and he was in and out of my life, I'd know if he was in relapse mode - it was obvious. But with this methadone stuff, it's like it's a different game.

This afternoon, I said we needed to talk and I asked him why he didn't return my text message. When I go into high anxiety I check phone records. Upon seeing the number of someone who is supposedly clean, I was sure that he went there to make a purchase. So he tells me that he did nothing wrong (otherwise he would have snuck off to a payphone) shows me all the money in his wallet (none missing) and says "I know it takes time, but I can't take this. I don't think you're ever going to forgive me, or put the past behind us". And I just said "I don't know, either."

Moving out? I am currently seeing the same therapist as he is - just for a couple sessions - and he advised me to not push that issue right now. I keep vascillating on that too.

So, to everyone who has said if he's not doing the right things, that will become clear. It seems as clear as mud to me.

But yeah, I think I can let go of this obssession of mine again for awhile. I missed my Al-Anon meeting tonight due to this crap, which is exactly when I need to go, but we were sitting in the car talking when I would have had to leave for it.

Thanks for weighing in, everyone. This forum is a blessing, and it feels good to be heard.

[tsmba]

Glad to hear you are attending Al-Anon. That was the first thing that popped into my head and it sounds like you are taking steps to care for yourself. In the end, the things you learn in the program can only help your loved one...even if it those actions seem harsh!

[anglsage]

The dose it takes for it to become a blocking agent totally depends on the person. They have me on 85mgs/daily and I'm still able to feel the effects of oxys...

[gunslinger]

Originally Posted by anglsage

The dose it takes for it to become a blocking agent totally depends on the person. They have me on 85mgs/daily and I'm still able to feel the effects of oxys...

I find this discouraging: 1. how would you know? 2. Why would you want to find out 3. If you dont want recovery, why bother with methadone?

[Hopenow]

Y talk about getting high! Thia is Sober Recovery....... Get a Grip people.

[coffeedrinker]

I think it would be messed up, and counter-productive to have back and forth banter about getting high. That is not what I feel I read here. The people who have used are most helpful to me on the site, and I appreciate all the learnin I can get from them (I am not an addict)
I too am curious for the answer to gunslinger's questions. But it is to gain an understanding of the disease. My compassion and support go way up when I do.

[ItsMe1965]

Originally Posted by coffeedrinker

Ok, I have read over and over again that if you are on a correct dose of methadone it will act as a blocking agent, and also take away physical cravings.

But, isn't this just true for the craving for opiate use? I understand that piece, but when I hear a blanket statement about "can't get high no matter how much they try" it confuses me. For instance, doesn't the desire to just get high transfer to other drugs that DO work while on methadone? (alcohol, cocaine-derived and amphetemine-derived drugs??)

I am an opiate addict PERIOD..While I have heard other people tell me that a person can get high on methadone, it never happenned to me, and I am glad because if it did make me high it wouldn't serve its purpose. When I got on methadone I was shooting 3 grams of heroin a day and eating 40+ 10/325 norcos, it took me a full year to get to my blocking dose which is 160mg. I am 5'3 weigh 135 but my tolerance is through the wall. Methadone makes me feel normal, thats it, it helps with my pain, and I haven't had the desire to use any opiates since I got my blocking dose on July 1, 2002. Sure methadone only blocks opiates but I don't care to use cocaine, pot, crank or any other med..IF a person is on methadone maintenace and abuses other drugs he/she is risking his/her life. I have a severe panic disorder and I am prescribed xanax 1mg as needed. I filled it on Oct 31, 2009 30 tablets, I still have 26 tablets I don't take them unless I need them. I don;t feel a buzz when I take one, because I take it for a severe condition all it does is take the panic away. My doctor knows I am on methadone he trusts me because I am honest with him..I don't even know why you asked the question in the first place. The clinic I attend has rules, if I use anything I am not prescribed I lose one take home for each dirty test. I haven't lost a take home in years.. Maybe if you explain why you asked the qustion I could give you an answer..

FrankiesMom

[tsmba]

It is a shame that there is so much online discussion about cheating while on ORT. Far too many patients seem stuck in the "if I can just control my opiate use, I can do *whatever*" frame of mind. Also, there seems to be another group that seeks to "just do a *little* bit for a change of pace" mentality. All any of us can do is to point out the faulty logic. I've been there myself, so I try not to judge others, even though it is difficult.

At one time or another, I participated in all kinds of faulty thinking. The first time I went to rehab, I saw my problem as being IV cocaine use. Drinking had never been an issue, so I saw no reason why I shouldn't drink "in moderation". For years I continued to switch from one drug to another. If we live long enough, we eventually run out of drugs to play the game with.

[coffeedrinker]

ItsMe1965,

It's been awhile, but I think when I posted the original question was because, well, there's these days where this guy is just out of it. He sleeps really heavily and then if I walk into the room, or make a small noise, he is awake and pretty alert. He'll sit up, sit on the side of the bed, but not really be awake. It's bizarre behavior in my book, and not like that every night. A couple times I had such a stong feeling that something wasn't right and I looked in his lockbox and saw what looked to me like part of a take-home dose was gotten into already. One time there was a call to his "friend" who also happens to be a dealer. Sometimes I wonder if he's chasing a high and either he's gettin a bit of one, or what I thought (until today that is, this behavior has just returned) was that he is getting more stable and all that weirdness is in the past.

I have heard conflicting viewpoints about whether or not you can catch a buzz on methadone. I guess the truth must be that some do, and some do not.

When you said how small you are and what your dose is, it kinda blew me away. My guy has always said his tolerance to everything is very high, and I believe it. So maybe being on for three months, and at 85 mg, just isn't doin it. Although there is a right way and a wrong way to go about getting the program to work for him the way it needs to. He does not bring his MMT up hardly ever, and I do want to be respectful of his space and his privacy on it (yeah, I know, I fail pretty regularly) but I would feel better if he would talk about it a little and if he feels his dose isn't right, he could share that with me.
I mean, I know I'm not his counselor or anything, but I would feel more like a partner, and probably not be wondering so much.

And I don't know what ORT is -- treatment for Opiate addiction?
I think I wrote but can't remember - he is not turning up for anything but the methadone.

[tsmba]

ORT = Opiate Replacement Therapy ie: methadone or burprenorphine.

Dosages are unique to each person and have little relationship to amounts used prior to treatment. I am called a "fast metabolizer" as my body processes opiates very quickly. It took six months for me to get stable on methadone and I took 270mg/day in a split dose. I recall sitting in the waiting room and patients would discuss their doses. I was often accused of lying or heard "wow, you must have been REALLY bad!". Both statements were false.

I think it is common for patients to compare doses, and to believe things like "a person on 100mg/day is "better" than someone on 200mg/day", but that is also false. I was also told that suboxone would not work for me because of my dose. That also turned out to be false as I quickly stabilized on 16mg/day of suboxone. These sort of myths and misconceptions are common, even among doctors. I recall knowing a very petite woman who required 350mg/day of methadone....and a huge, strapping guy with a monster habit who maintained at 70mg/day. It takes what it takes.