Heroin, Methadone, Subutex

[wal123]

Hello, I live in Lebanon where the pharmacies don't sell subutex or methadone, but heroin is omnipresent. Anyway, I have been taking heroin for many years but I had stopped for 3-4 years when I lived abroad and had access to Sub. Now, that I'm back to leb I started taking again but have stopped since 3 days. Someone has brought me 400 mg of Methadone and 3 boxes of 8 mg Subutex. So, what I did, was to start with the Methadone cause you can take them without a 24 hours wait (unlike subutex).
Anyway, my question is what should I do now. I still have some methadone and all of the subutex. I have taken 110 mg the first day, 80 the second and around 60-70mg of methadone today. Should I change to subutex tomorrow, or should I finish the metha, by taking less and less and then switch or is there no way to avoid the withdrawal from the switch?
P.S: Some told me to take Heroin again for a couple of days to do the switch; that it was the only way to avoid suffering, but I really wanted to stop and have managed to convince myself that never again.
Thanks and sorry for the long question.

[Dee74]

Hi Wal

We can't give medical advice here.

I have no idea what Lebanon is like for access to doctors, but I urge you to find a good doctor and put these questions to them.

D

[incitingsilence]

I will be skirting this but really now to not say something….
But that plan you just wrote up is not good, do not take subutex tomorrow because I can guarantee you that you will be sick.

Look this is dangerous, and can turn out to be very painful. A methadone to sub switch must be done with a doctor, there are just to many what ifs even with you only being on the methadone for a few days and having seen precipitated withdrawal…well trust me it ain’t nice. I don’t think I have met anyone who in doing this on their own and some did have doctors and were just sent home to dose after a certain amount of time that had a good switch…

I don’t advocate that anyone switch to any maintenance drug on their own and switching from methadone to sub can be extremely tricky even under all the right circumstances…. but I am not naive enough to think it doesn’t happen and happen often…the desperation makes sense.

[NoelleR]

I'm one of those nasty old-timers who went CT, and I don't believe in DRT (it just reminds me of an alcoholic replacing rum with bourbon,,,,lolol). Since, at the end of my addictions, I was using, not to get high, but to avoid being 'dope sick' and to avoid withdrawals, if I switched from heroin to methadone or subs.....for the rest of my life, well, heck, I coulda stayed on the heroin (although that would be illegal), or just changed to morphine (now, who would I get to prescribe that....lol)

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1) "...Anyway, I have been taking heroin for many years but I had stopped for 3-4 years when I lived abroad and had access to Sub..."

2) "...Should I change to subutex tomorrow, or should I finish the metha, by taking less and less and then switch or is there no way to avoid the withdrawal from the switch?..."

3) "...it was the only way to avoid suffering, but I really wanted to stop..."

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1) So, when you stopped heroin and took Sub, did you take Subs for the entire 3-4 years....? Was the plan to taper the Subs down, at some point, or were you planning on staying on Subs for the rest of your life.....?

2) avoid withdrawals....? Most folks I know were told to be in withdrawals (susally somewhere between 12-24 hours after their last use, and did so, before they ever started Subs.....starting Subs before going into withdrawals can sometimes bring on 'awful' withdarwals.....

3) Far as I know, the only way to avoid suffering is to continue to 'use' ---- whether using heroin, or methadone, or subs.....I know that both methadone and subs help curtail the cravings/urges (subs more than methadone), but they're all opiates; just changing one for another....

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My main suggestion for you would be.....don't do this on your own; find a doctor............well, that's my 2-cents worth......


NoelleR

[christin1225]

Originally Posted by incitingsilence

I will be skirting this but really now to not say something….

I completely agree because...

that plan you just wrote up is not good,

do not take subutex tomorrow because I can guarantee you that you will be sick.

Yep! No one would choose to have to switch from Methadone to Sub over a short-acting opiate because...

precipitated withdrawal…well trust me it ain’t nice.

And Dee is correct, we're not allowed to give out medical advice.

I admire your desire to get off H. As you already have the Sub, are there any doctors who will help you? If not, there are short taper plans that can be found on the internet, kind of "How to get off opiates in 28-days with Sub" plans (totally minus the Methadone!). I have no idea how successful they are. I'm not on a short-term, detox with Suboxone. So, I can't share from experience. (I don't even know how many are in a "box." Suboxone is dispensed in the US according to prescription).

I wish you all the best.

[ex D-Boy]

Noeller makes an excellent point, gotta pay the piper eventually wal. Whether it is methadone, suboxone or heroin you will have to withdraw and deal with the sickness and pain from any of these drugs. They are all opiates. There is no easy way to get around it. Im not really an old timer but I would have to say deal with the problem now rather than push it off for a later date.