Need methadone detox advice please

[LostForever]

I have not been on here in a long time. I was just reading my old posts and I had to stop. I was getting chills.

I did lose that great job because of my habit. My life turned to sh!t. It still is except that I did finally clean up in January of this year. I have been on Methadone Maintenance and haven't used any other opiates. I am trying to put my life back together but it's not working out as well as I had hoped...

Anyway... I want to get off methadone but the clinic is refusing to let me. Every time I start to go down they come up with a reason to stop lowering my dose. I have never heard of this! There are people there that had to stop paying the fees to get off the program! I have heard that they are all about the $$$.

I have been unhappy with the Methadone clinic I am at. It is small, very inefficiently run and the nurse in charge is on a power trip. I was on 90mg and after a lot of headache I was able to get them to start tapering me. I am now on 50mg. I have really bad anxiety and as I go down it's worsening. I went to a therapist and he put me on an anti-depressant and Klonopin as needed. I filled them but I didn't want to take the Klonopin unless I absolutely had to. After a month of severe anxiety attacks I had one that was very bad and I couldn't calm myself down. (I live alone, have no friends or family anymore and am completely cut off from the world right now.) I took half a Klonopin (0.5mg). The next day I informed my counselor at the clinic I explained what happened and brought in the bottle so she could count them and see that since they had been filled a month ago, I only took one half. In addition, my weekly urines had been clean all along so it was obvious I was not abusing them. I put in my request for my next taper down for this week.

The requests are run by the nurse for approval. When he saw I took the half K. he denied my taper request, took away my weekend take homes and denied any further requests. Mind you I had a PRESCRIPTION for them from my dr!!!! I was pretty upset and called a meeting with my counselor. I decided no matter how bad the anxiety is I won't take anything for it. She is on my side but can't fight the nurse. She suggested that since I am trying to be off by the end of the year, that I could detox against medical advice (AMA) because that is the only way I could go down. It's a 30 day taper and they have no formal process in writing (I asked for one.) except for the 30 day time limit. As I am preparing to sign it today the nurse informs me that because I am on 50mg it's a two week taper not 30 days!!??? I was like - wait a minute! That is kind of fast. (I thought 30 days was quick.) This 'rule' is not documented anywhere and I don't understand why they have to shorten it??? I held off on signing the form.

Now I am stuck on 50mg and I can't taper off any more. I have to have 3 months of clean urines and start my requests over. So now I am delaying it into next year and I have to hope that once I am able to taper that they don't decide to stop me again. I am really upset over this! I have been doing really well staying off the opiates. I am afraid if I taper too quickly that I am going to get sick and use. I feel like I am being kept on this against my will and that it is unfair!

Has anyone experienced anything like this? If so, how did you handle it? Do you think I can get off 50mg in 2 weeks after being on methadone daily since February?

Please - any advice would be appreciated. I am beside myself over this!

Sorry this is so long...

[cjsg]

Hello and srry you are caught up in this ridiculousness. I am wondering if you might consider suboxone instead of methadone. I have hear nightmares about people being caught up in these clinics. I have no experience tapering off methadone but I did many year stint abusing the hell out of them. Sorry if I failed to understand your post, but what is nagging in my mind is that if you are doing the replacement therapy, why not switch to suboxone. I had to deal with ZERO nurses on a power trip, and my doctor was more than willing to accomodate my requests for tapers. One time he did ask me to stay at a certain dose for 2 weeks longer, but I did not have to put up with any of these annoying, fastidious **** that you describe. I used suboxone to get off a horribly high dose of my DoC. Even if my DoC was heroin I would still have chosen suboxone. Given what I know of it now after having tapered off it, I would think maybe it would have been a better option. No nurses to deal with and my doctor was very involved. You sound as if you are more than willing to adhere to a replacement therapy plan, and willing to taper. That, to me, has all the makings of a successful detox using suboxone. I might strongly consider it, if its economical feasible for you. What you described about the prescription kind of put a bad taste in my mouth. I would circumvent this hierarchy and go the suboxone route. if you are as diligent and applied to tapering as you seem, then you would have minimum discomfort. I have heard and read that suboxone is easier to taper off of, but I am sure there are those who would contest that. Anyway after reading your post thats what filled my head. The klonopin would still be an issue with the subs, the doctors do not like to mix them, but maybe suboxone might do more for stabilizing your mood. Who knows I am not a doctor. As far as refusing to taper you, I know sometimes doctors might not feel you are ready and refuse it, but I would feel much better having a doctor tell me that, than a nurse. I hope someone comes along soon to chime in and maybe actually be of some help. Sorry to ramble
Chris

[LostForever]

Originally Posted by cjsg

Hello and srry you are caught up in this ridiculousness. I am wondering if you might consider suboxone instead of methadone. I have hear nightmares about people being caught up in these clinics. I have no experience tapering off methadone but I did many year stint abusing the hell out of them. Sorry if I failed to understand your post, but what is nagging in my mind is that if you are doing the replacement therapy, why not switch to suboxone. I had to deal with ZERO nurses on a power trip, and my doctor was more than willing to accomodate my requests for tapers. One time he did ask me to stay at a certain dose for 2 weeks longer, but I did not have to put up with any of these annoying, fastidious **** that you describe. I used suboxone to get off a horribly high dose of my DoC. Even if my DoC was heroin I would still have chosen suboxone. Given what I know of it now after having tapered off it, I would think maybe it would have been a better option. No nurses to deal with and my doctor was very involved. You sound as if you are more than willing to adhere to a replacement therapy plan, and willing to taper. That, to me, has all the makings of a successful detox using suboxone. I might strongly consider it, if its economical feasible for you. What you described about the prescription kind of put a bad taste in my mouth. I would circumvent this hierarchy and go the suboxone route. if you are as diligent and applied to tapering as you seem, then you would have minimum discomfort. I have heard and read that suboxone is easier to taper off of, but I am sure there are those who would contest that. Anyway after reading your post thats what filled my head. The klonopin would still be an issue with the subs, the doctors do not like to mix them, but maybe suboxone might do more for stabilizing your mood. Who knows I am not a doctor. As far as refusing to taper you, I know sometimes doctors might not feel you are ready and refuse it, but I would feel much better having a doctor tell me that, than a nurse. I hope someone comes along soon to chime in and maybe actually be of some help. Sorry to ramble
Chris

Thanks for responding. Everyone I talk to that has been on suboxone seems to have had a good experience with it and I heard the withdrawals were not as bad. There are a few reasons I went with methadone back in Feb. One was the cost factor - I am unemployed and have no health insurance at the moment. The methadone is very inexpensive. The second was that I had tried buprenorphine a few times in the past and both times I had a bad reaction to it. I am kind of afraid to try it again. You also cannot switch from methadone to suboxone (the only way is if you are in severe withdrawals) but you can do the reverse.

If I had known what was ahead of me with all the clinic bs I never would have gone this route. I also would not recommend it based on my experience. I have heard many clinic horror stories. They treat you like you are trash and don't know anything. I am college educated (not that it makes me better than anyone who isn't) and I had a professional career at one time. It's humiliating the way they treat me. I hate going there.

Anyway, thanks for sharing your experience. Hopefully some more people will respond to my post.

Thanks!

[miamary05]

Hello Lost.. I am on Suboxone as well and have never been on methadone... although I considered it.. I was unable to make the 30 min drive to the clinic and groups.. In a way I'm glad I didn't.. Many family and friends of mine are on the methadone clinic.. and some have been on it for years (my father)... I can say this.. My friend was on methadone for about a year.. she decided she wanted to taper off it.. she started off by doing 1 mg a week.. then got annoyed at how long it was taking and did 5 mg a day.. Her origianl dose was 50 mg.. She basically came off of it in a months time and it was not pretty.. many will say methadone withdrawal is harder to kick then a opiate habit.. By day 2 of not being on methadone she ended up getting her hands on sub's because she was afraid of using again..

I can't tell you why your clinic is giving you a hard time with tapering.. the clinic my friend is at had no problem with her tapering.. but did not like the idea of her doing 5mg a day but couldn't do nothing because it was her choice..There has got to be somebody in a higher position then that nurse that you can talk to about this..maybe a manager or supervisor or something.. because I thought methadone maintenance meant you were on it for a short period of time? idk maybe I'm mistaken..or have you considered switching clinics if there is one nearby??

Whatever you decide to do I think you should really take it slow with the taper..Maybe 1mg a week or something like that.. I have heard of people tapering off methadone successfully..it took them months to do.. but they did it.. it may take you awhile but I think the slower the better..so don't get discouraged.. and I know what you mean about how they treat you.. they treated my friend like she was a scumbag..and in fact she is a very successful woman!

On the brighter side.. You have 3 months clean you should be so proud of yourself!! Do you attend meetings for more support?? Keep posting on SR they give great advice and support.. and again I am not on methadone myself.. this is only what I know from my friends experience.. but stick around I'm sure there will be someone here that has been through it and is willing to share with you..

Good job, good luck, and don't give up!!

[cjsg]

You can indeed switch from methadone to suboxone. Whoever informed you that you could not was misinformed. My suboxone induction paperwork included a whole section to fill out with information about my dose, my clinic etc..

A few people here on this forum get their suboxone free from the manufacturer. Never ever let yourself believe you are cornered and cannot do something about your situation. I don't mean to harp I just wanted to give you this link and say that in your post you seemed almost resigned to this fate... that there wasn't much you could do and I just wanted to let you know that you have options. Really I don't know what anyone else could say about your situation. Logically it would seem you could, cold turkey, go medical detox route, or try sub, or fight with the clinic some more and maybe things will ease up.
Also don't think that getting myself past the induction phase on sub was easy. I seemed to be the one person in a thousand that had ALL of the side effects.. yet my doctor calmly urged me to keep on taking it, even when I was puking and I was almost pissed at him, thinking he was cold hearted, but in my case it turned out well and after two weeks the reactions subsided I slowly tapered off suboxone in 2 months and I was an IV user. Good Luck Check out that thread you might something useful or at least chat up a few people there who have been in your shoes.

[LostForever]

Originally Posted by miamary05

Hello Lost.. I am on Suboxone as well and have never been on methadone... although I considered it.. I was unable to make the 30 min drive to the clinic and groups.. In a way I'm glad I didn't.. Many family and friends of mine are on the methadone clinic.. and some have been on it for years (my father)... I can say this.. My friend was on methadone for about a year.. she decided she wanted to taper off it.. she started off by doing 1 mg a week.. then got annoyed at how long it was taking and did 5 mg a day.. Her origianl dose was 50 mg.. She basically came off of it in a months time and it was not pretty.. many will say methadone withdrawal is harder to kick then a opiate habit.. By day 2 of not being on methadone she ended up getting her hands on sub's because she was afraid of using again..

I can't tell you why your clinic is giving you a hard time with tapering.. the clinic my friend is at had no problem with her tapering.. but did not like the idea of her doing 5mg a day but couldn't do nothing because it was her choice..There has got to be somebody in a higher position then that nurse that you can talk to about this..maybe a manager or supervisor or something.. because I thought methadone maintenance meant you were on it for a short period of time? idk maybe I'm mistaken..or have you considered switching clinics if there is one nearby??

Whatever you decide to do I think you should really take it slow with the taper..Maybe 1mg a week or something like that.. I have heard of people tapering off methadone successfully..it took them months to do.. but they did it.. it may take you awhile but I think the slower the better..so don't get discouraged.. and I know what you mean about how they treat you.. they treated my friend like she was a scumbag..and in fact she is a very successful woman!

On the brighter side.. You have 3 months clean you should be so proud of yourself!! Do you attend meetings for more support?? Keep posting on SR they give great advice and support.. and again I am not on methadone myself.. this is only what I know from my friends experience.. but stick around I'm sure there will be someone here that has been through it and is willing to share with you..

Good job, good luck, and don't give up!!

Thanks! Actually I have 8 months clean of clean time, not 3. I guess I can look into switching clinics although it is a long process. I can look into what is would entail I suppose. I would have to make sure they would taper me. My clinic would do the 5mg a day which I think is too agressive. They don't do 1mg reductions - 5 is the lowest.

I am meeting with the doctor next week. He is there for a few hours once a week. He is very old and sick though so he relies heavily on the nurse that is there. The nurse is a big problem. It is a very small clinic and it is understaffed. They have 3 regular counselors and one head counselor for 300 clients. They have one medication window and I heard that other clinics have at least 2. They are funded by the state and they never seem to have any supplies. They have one computer that they all share... It's really a joke.

I feel so trapped. It's upsetting me and I was up all night stressing. How can I get off methadone in this situation? I am stuck on this dose now when I want to continue tapering. ARRRGGGHHHHH!!!!

[LostForever]

I am disappointed that more people have not responded to my post. I am meeting with the head of the clinic in an hour. It probably won't change anything. I guess I will just ask the one question weighing heavily on my mind. I am contemplating just detoxing off in 2 weeks. I don't want to be on methadone as I feel it is complicating my life.

My question is this...

Has anyone detoxed off 50mg or more in 2 weeks or less? If so, how bad was it? Were you able to do it without relapsing?

Please - anyone who has been through this - I would really appreciate your advice.

Thanks in advance!

[Sugah]

I had a sponsee who was on 50mg when she was arrested (failure to pay her fines). She detoxed three days in jail, and as her MMT was part of her probation plan, she had to go back to the clinic (she wanted to continue the detox). Since she already had a few days' detox under her belt, she was put back on, but only at 28mg. The clinic refused to let her go any lower, and as she'd signed releases for probation, "AMA" wasn't an option. As soon as she was off probation, she started cutting her take-homes, measuring them with an eyedropper, so several days a week, she took a much lower dose. I am not recommending this. When she felt she had several weeks' worth saved up, she quit going to the clinic and detoxed on her own.

Did she stay clean? For about six months. She slacked off working with me, quit going to meetings, and eventually got a prescription from her doctor for Aderall without being accountable to anyone in her recovery circle. Did she need the Aderall? It's not for me to say. She has let me know that by being secretive about it, it made it easier for her to begin to abuse it. She had what I can only characterize as a psychotic break. She withdrew from everyone and in less than two weeks, she was back to shooting heroin.

So, I don't have any first-hand experience. I've known quite a few people on MMT, and I don't know a single one who came off it without a relapse. The ones I know who are clean today detoxed cold turkey from opiates, not MMT. There are members here who are clean without relapse from suboxone, and maybe someone who successfully detoxed from methadone will chime in, too. The common thread I've seen is that those who find success do so with a very rigorous plan of recovery in place (namely, NA, sponsor, meetings).

What are you doing in addition to the MMT? Once you leave that "program," what awaits you? My suggestion is to focus on a recovery that can carry you beyond the methadone.

Peace & Love,
Sugah

[LostForever]

Originally Posted by cjsg

You can indeed switch from methadone to suboxone. Whoever informed you that you could not was misinformed. My suboxone induction paperwork included a whole section to fill out with information about my dose, my clinic etc..

A few people here on this forum get their suboxone free from the manufacturer. Never ever let yourself believe you are cornered and cannot do something about your situation. I don't mean to harp I just wanted to give you this link and say that in your post you seemed almost resigned to this fate... that there wasn't much you could do and I just wanted to let you know that you have options. Really I don't know what anyone else could say about your situation. Logically it would seem you could, cold turkey, go medical detox route, or try sub, or fight with the clinic some more and maybe things will ease up.
Also don't think that getting myself past the induction phase on sub was easy. I seemed to be the one person in a thousand that had ALL of the side effects.. yet my doctor calmly urged me to keep on taking it, even when I was puking and I was almost pissed at him, thinking he was cold hearted, but in my case it turned out well and after two weeks the reactions subsided I slowly tapered off suboxone in 2 months and I was an IV user. Good Luck Check out that thread you might something useful or at least chat up a few people there who have been in your shoes.

Thanks. Your link was removed from this post...? Can you please repost or PM it to me? Thank you.

Actually I was told by the doctor when I was in detox that you cannot go from methadone to suboxone. I had started on methadone and everyone else detoxing was taking suboxone. They were really doing well on it - better than I was doing. After I got on MMT, my addiction counselor also told me I couldn't switch unless I was pretty far into a withdrawal state.

I did try it twice and had horrible experiences (vomiting, diarreah, restlessness, body aches). Until you mentioned it, I didn't realize that I might have had bad side effects. I thought either I was allergic or I had not waited long enough and it put me into withdrawals...? Either way it scared me into never taking it again - it was THAT bad.

I do kind of feel like I am resigned to this fate. I really don't want to go cold turkey because I think it will lead to me relapsing. I am not good at handling the sickness. As I mentioned, my experiences with sub were not good so that isn't an option either. I met with the head of the clinic yesterday and today I am meeting with the dr. It doesn't seem right that they can keep me on this when I want to taper off! Worst case scenario is that I sign an AMA form and detox in 15 days. I am somewhat worried about the withdrawls but I am not going to get the slow taper I wanted. It just doesn't seem ethical that they are telling me no. I don't understand it. I am starting to wonder if I can take legal action against them for refusing to taper me. I could understand if I was using but I have not used an opiate since May! Gosh this is really frustrating!

[Ranger1]

If they will taper you at 5mg a day do it!

I tapered 10 mg a day and it sucks but its doable, I have been off for 6 months and life is much better! I lost a great job too and my life fell apart around me, I was once a great athlete with an amazing body and a six figure income, and went to being a fat unemployed loser!

God only gives us what we can manage in his glory, show your savior your strength and you will be blessed beyond your wildest imagination!

[LostForever]

They stopped my taper again and won't let me resume it. I think I am going to just go AMA and do the 5mg a day detox. I was just worried about being sick and using. I think this situation is worse though.

All the stress I have been experiencing over this has led to thoughts of using again. I think to myself "What was the point of staying off opiates if they are not going to let me taper off the methadone? I might as well use."

I know that is sick thinking. I hate not being in control over my dose. It's causing me a lot of anxiety.

[LostForever]

Originally Posted by Ranger1

If they will taper you at 5mg a day do it!

I tapered 10 mg a day and it sucks but its doable, I have been off for 6 months and life is much better! I lost a great job too and my life fell apart around me, I was once a great athlete with an amazing body and a six figure income, and went to being a fat unemployed loser!

God only gives us what we can manage in his glory, show your savior your strength and you will be blessed beyond your wildest imagination!

You sound somewhat like me. I did competitve fitness training for years and was in great shape. I also lost my dream job on Wall Street with a 6 figure income. I would have never left there.

Since going on methadone my life has gotten worse instead of better.

I think I am going to do the 5mg a day taper. I probably won't feel really bad until a day or two after I am done. Can I ask how long the withdrawals lasted for you once you came off?

[Dee74]

LF

I have no first hand experience with this, but please do take Sugahs advice.
Have something, some network, to support you.

Did you look into this btw? I'd rather take my advice on this from medical people whom I trusted, LF, not an internet board.

I guess I can look into switching clinics although it is a long process. I can look into what is would entail I suppose

.

D

[LostForever]

Originally Posted by Sugah

I had a sponsee who was on 50mg when she was arrested (failure to pay her fines). She detoxed three days in jail, and as her MMT was part of her probation plan, she had to go back to the clinic (she wanted to continue the detox). Since she already had a few days' detox under her belt, she was put back on, but only at 28mg. The clinic refused to let her go any lower, and as she'd signed releases for probation, "AMA" wasn't an option. As soon as she was off probation, she started cutting her take-homes, measuring them with an eyedropper, so several days a week, she took a much lower dose. I am not recommending this. When she felt she had several weeks' worth saved up, she quit going to the clinic and detoxed on her own.

Did she stay clean? For about six months. She slacked off working with me, quit going to meetings, and eventually got a prescription from her doctor for Aderall without being accountable to anyone in her recovery circle. Did she need the Aderall? It's not for me to say. She has let me know that by being secretive about it, it made it easier for her to begin to abuse it. She had what I can only characterize as a psychotic break. She withdrew from everyone and in less than two weeks, she was back to shooting heroin.

So, I don't have any first-hand experience. I've known quite a few people on MMT, and I don't know a single one who came off it without a relapse. The ones I know who are clean today detoxed cold turkey from opiates, not MMT. There are members here who are clean without relapse from suboxone, and maybe someone who successfully detoxed from methadone will chime in, too. The common thread I've seen is that those who find success do so with a very rigorous plan of recovery in place (namely, NA, sponsor, meetings).

What are you doing in addition to the MMT? Once you leave that "program," what awaits you? My suggestion is to focus on a recovery that can carry you beyond the methadone.

Peace & Love,
Sugah

After reading Dee's post I went back and re-read yours. As I was reading I got a sinking feeling in my stomach. My biggest fear is never getting off this and it doesn't sound like too many people have done it successfully.

I have had bad experiences with suboxone and so I am afraid to try it. I was told I would have to taper off methadone first and then go a few days with nothing before going on it. Suboxone has an opiate blocker in it and methadone takes up to 72 hours to leave your system.

I have tried meetings several times (different meetings/people) and I was never comfortable there. I have very bad social anxiety and so I would always just sit and listen. I was never an active participant.

I feel so far removed from that 'drug infused' life with my ex now. I just cannot see it happening again. Before I met him I went 37 years without ever taking anything more than an antibiotic. If I was prescribed pain meds I never filled them. He got me comfortable with using and we used together. Now he is gone because of his addiction. I have no thoughts of ever using again. I don't want that life anymore.

Maybe that isn't enough. I don't know. All I know is that I am very angry and frustrated with the situation I am in. I could understand not tapering me if I was still using but that is not the case. I have almost a year clean now.

I am afraid of a quick detox. I was never good at handling dopesickness. I am feeling very trapped and I don't like the feeling. It's having an impact on my life. I was told my life would get better and it's not. I am staying in the same place and I want to move forward. I was happy and relieved when I was tapering. I felt like I was working towards the end. Now I don't see an end unless it's one I have no other option than to take.

[kj3880]

Recovery isn't for those who need it, or even for those who want it, it's only for those who are willing to work for it. It's an everyday type of working. One day at a time.

I have social anxiety too, and NA has been good for me. I go to meetings almost every day, and I have for the past 19 months of being clean. I also went on Suboxone to get and stay clean. I was on it for some months. I really don't think it's something that you can rush successfully. Being on Suboxone may not be ideal, but it sure beats using street drugs! It's safe, taken as directed by an experienced addictionologist, and very effective. For most, it has very few if any side-effects. It is also good if you have chronic depression, helps with it. I was quite happy and functional on it. I really got a chance to get my psyche and my life together.

You have to be done getting high to have it be successful. It makes you feel good, normal, not high. So you have to be ready for that for it to be a good option for you. I think it's a miracle drug if you are ready to get clean.

I've read through all your old posts. What you put yourself through for drugs...was really tragic. Believe me, recovery is a lot better than what you wen through the past few years. It's a new, wonderful was of life. I suggest you give NA another try. You have nothing to lose but your misery.

Love,
KJ

[box3]

I detoxed from methadone 10 years ago and I haven't abused opiates since. I have, however, developed alcoholism in the last three or so years. I withdrew from methadone at home with no support and no treatment plan.

Just a reminder that it's easy for addiction to 'jump ship', even many years later. It is possible to withdraw from methadone and not touch opiates again, but I would strongly advise that it's done in conjunction with a doctor's advice, solid support and a recovery plan. There is no quick detox with methadone, it helps if you're prepared for that.