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Old 07-14-2009, 11:39 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Help with subutex- NOT Suboxone

I need help from someone who knows about Subutex induction, not suboxone. I've gotten on suboxone after a million tries. If you know me then you prob know that I had a really hard time getting to the point where I was sick enough to take the suboxone, for several reasons. I have a friend who is going through the same thing now. He heard though that to start subutex you don't have to be as sick as you do to get on suboxone since it doesn't have naloxone in it. Does anyone know about this? Apparently you can start the subutex after being in mild withdrawal and then after a day switch over to the suboxone. If I knew about this I prbably would have gotten on the subs months ago. So does anyone have any help for me? Can you really start subutex in mild withdrawal as opposed to suboxone where you have to be in moderate withdrawal? Just in case it matters, they're doing H. I don't know exactly how much a day but he has a Moderate habit I'd guess. Thanks to anyone who can help here. I really want to help this guy get clean.
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Old 07-14-2009, 11:50 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Hi, I might not be much help but i have been on both subutex and suboxone. I was told by my addiction physiciatrist that i had to be without any drug for 12-24 hours. Of course i chose 12 hours, at 5:00 one evening was my last time using and was to see my MD at 8 am next morning. My withdrawls started at about 3am..as i sat watching the clock until it was time to go. the minutes felt like days as i was shaking sweating, the anxiety level was horrible, but i knew that each minute was closer to feeling better with suboxone. well my point is, being only 12-14 hours without my DOC the suboxone worked wonderfully. The only experience i had with subutex was i became pregnant and MD switched me to subutex. sorry not much help..take care
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Old 07-14-2009, 09:06 PM   #3 (permalink)
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I've been on both Subutex and Suboxone aswell - at different times (after about 0.5 gram a day Heroin habit). With the Subutex, I had my first dose the morning after having my last hit the night before ... no problems what so ever ( - except for getting the correct dose amount worked out). However, Suboxone was a different kettle of fish altogether ... I picked up my first dose maybe 10 hours after my last hit and I went straight into precipitated withdrawal. My advice - wait as long as possible .. at LEAST 24 hours. If you do it beforehand, just be prepared for the withdrawal.

Sounds like you are on the right track with what you stated above.
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Old 08-02-2009, 04:00 PM   #4 (permalink)
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24 hours ought to do it, but, thr general concensus is " The sicker the better", so 48 is better. The reason for this is simple...Suboxone wont make you feel good, but it will make you fell NOT COMPLETLY HORRIBLE. The sicker you are when you take it, the more drsmatic an inprovemnt you are likely to feel. Good luck with the subs..I found it wasnt for me..dont let me scare you, though...for many many folks it is a miracle pill. I just found that some of the side effects I could not tolerate. By all means, give it a shot, just make sure your doc is accessable so that you can report and deal with any bad side effects.
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Old 12-12-2009, 10:51 AM   #5 (permalink)
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I was taking vicodin off and on for about 6 months, my last dose of vicodin was 9 days ago, two days after stopping vicodin (cold turkey) I bought 9, 8mg suboxone I just took my last 4mg (I broke them in half) my question is, will I go through any withdrawl from suboxone after taking the above described dose's?
I'm pretty healty other wise, I just got into vicodin after a dentist visit.

I don't want to be sick from withdrawl, I just want to be clean, I'm ashamed of myself.
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Old 12-12-2009, 12:04 PM   #6 (permalink)
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No one can say what will happen. In general, short-term opiate does not cause physical dependence. Subutex is exactly the same as suboxone, except that it doesn't contain nalaxone. The nalaxone is supposed to deter abuse, but there have been many reports that it is inert and does nothing. Personally, I've never wanted to find out.
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Old 12-12-2009, 12:23 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Hi Antonio,

As I'm sure you realise, we're a peer support group here, not a medical board.

Regardless of the experiences and opinions you may get here, the best course is always to discuss this with your doctor if you haven't already done so. Make sure you're satisfied with the answers

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Old 12-12-2009, 01:30 PM   #8 (permalink)
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You would think that would go without saying, Dee. I cannot begin to count the numbers of people I have spoken with who base their medical decisions on some comment they read online. It is especially true regarding methodone/suboxone doses and/or tapering. The fact that we can never compare our own insides to someone else's outside never seems to stop us from doing so!

Misusing online forums probably fails for the same reason that we should not have multiple sponsors: if, deep down inside, we want to do something, we will always come up with a way to justify that action. In the same way statistics can be manipulated to defend a given point, we will always dredge up "reasons" to justify our use.
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Old 12-17-2009, 12:52 PM   #9 (permalink)
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I have taken subutex, but I took suboxone first so I can't help you too much. My advice is call a doctor that specializes in detoxing their patients with suboxone and/or subutex. Someone in their office will tell you how long they require you to be in withdrawals before they will treat you. You may even ask them (if you can't speak with the doctor) what they can do for you if you are not willing to wait that period of time, and stress the fact that you want to quit but don't want to experience the withdrawals.

Someone already stated suboxone and subutex are one in the same except for the fact that suboxone contains naloxone which is supposed to make it so it can't be abused (intravenously I think?), so assuming this is true I don't know why a doctor would put someone on subutex for one day and then switch them to suboxone! I am no doctor but have been told by my doctor when starting suboxone treatment that the medicine will throw off any opiates from my brain receptors and cause immediate intense withdrawal affects. I have also read something similiar to this and that it can be VERY dangerous. So the point here is that suboxone/subutex binds to brain receptors and eases withdrawal symptoms. Therefore, it seems like one would HAVE to be in withdrawals for it to be effective!?
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Old 12-17-2009, 01:31 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Physicians Desk Reference Dude, or Google It!
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Old 12-17-2009, 01:36 PM   #11 (permalink)
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I believe the whole concept of opiate receptors and how they function is quite complex. I understand what is said about being in withdrawals prior to induction, but suppose each doc has their own approach. I've known folks who, like me, never experienced precipitated withdrawals, but I would never suggest anyone do anything other than follow a doctor's directions.

I never had a real induction. I was booted from a methadone program after nine years, survived on stockpiled meds, then finally went to a suboxone doc in desperation. For a week or two, I took suboxone along with methadone.

Subutex is something I've never taken. My doc keeps saying that "guidelines" state it is only to be used for induction and for pregnant women. This has created a stir now that a generic subutex is available, but not suboxone. Some docs seem to have no problem prescribing the cheaper med to their patients, while others flat out refuse. This only adds to the financial burden we all face with this ridiculously expensive med. (my script of 90 sells for $580!).
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