Maybe a strange question

[justtired]

Hi All

I "belong" in the friends and family section, but sometimes I feel like you folks have a different view on things so I'm hoping maybe some of you can help or can offer your thoughts on this topic?

My bf is addicted to several different kinds of medications. He seems to abuse anything that can be mood altering. He used to drink heavily years ago and after I almost left him twice, he decided that he was not going to drink anymore (but didn't get any kind of help). I thought we were in the clear when I found out he was abusing his meds. He admits to having a problem with drinking, but is in denial about abusing his pills. He knows that I'm concerned and we have had some talks about it and how I feel about it. He always denies it, but one time said that he "knows his tendencies" and then later told me that he talked to his doctor about going on suboxone because it was something he can do to "calm my fears". I was excited at first, but I'm not really sure if this is even a good thing if he doesn't really want to get the help for himself.

Now this is probably premature because I don't even know that his doctor will put him on them. His doctor knows about his addiction problems. Anyway,
I guess what I'm wondering is if it makes him feel better and feel back to normal and not crave the meds, would he be like, WOW, I feel good and now see how crappy I felt before??? Does that make sense?

I'm just not sure what to think...

[kj3880]

Uh-oh...I see someone is getting their clammy little hands all over someone elses' recovery, hmmm??? Take a step back, cause your codependency is getting the best of you. This isn't going to turn out well. He has to do it for him, not you.

What is going on in your life that you can attend to rather than keeping the focus on him and his recovery? You need a meeting, my dear, and get the focus back on you and your recovery.

If he isn't recovering, you need to ask yourself, Is this the life I want to lead? That's all you can control, whether you stay or leave, not what he does or doesn't do.

These questions are for him and his doc.

I don't mean to be harsh, but you know this is the answer you'd be getting in the friends and family forum, that's why I suspect you're sneaking over here...lol. Although you are certainly welcome to support us, or to stay and chat...but please, don't get yourself into managing someone elses' suboxone program. That doesn't work.

Love,
KJ

[Tish28]

I totally agree with KJ's answer,....but to answer your question, Yes it would more than likely make him feel good, and MAYBE get him to question his addictive habits.That's up to him to decide. Subuxone/Subetex are very good replacement therapies, taking away all the withdrawal symptoms. It buys you time.
However all in all it's his decision and his alone.

[justtired]

KJ - I am working on my own recovery. But I don't think it's wrong to question if something could possibly help with our loved ones recoveries as well. I'm looking for some answers as to how this works since it's something that he's considering doing. The reason I came to this forum is because I thought I could get responses from people who have TRIED it. That's where I'm not going to get responses from the folks in the friends and family area because not many people there have used it and understand how it works.

I understand that I need to worry about myself and that he's going to do what he's going to do. But I don't think there's anything wrong with asking if people think this might help so I can have a little more knowledge on what to expect.

[justtired]

but please, don't get yourself into managing someone elses' suboxone program. That doesn't work.

I'm not managing someone elses' suboxone program. He's not even in a program and may not ever be. I was just questioning whether or not people think it could be of benefit when he's not searching for recovery for himself... if it might make him feel better and help open his eyes. I understand what you're saying about me worrying about me and him worrying about him. But honestly I don't see anything wrong with asking a question regarding whether or not something could benefit him.

[marle]

My daughter has been on Suboxone since May of last year and is doing well on it. But like any other drug, it can be abused. The addict has to really be willing to change his life, work a program of recovery and use the subs as prescribed. My daughter started on 16 mgs. and is now down to 4 mgs. I don't know how much longer she will be on suboxone and I try not to get involved with her recovery. She chose to go to rehab, she chose the suboxone route after 4 years of opiate use, ending in heroin. She tried cold turkey but she kept relapsing and that is why she chose suboxone. Your boyfriend could do well on suboxone but he needs to get involved in a recovery program and to make a commitment on a daily basis not to use again no matter what. Hope that helps some. Hugs, Marle

[kj3880]

Originally Posted by justtired

My bf told me that he talked to his doctor about going on suboxone because it was something he can do to "calm my fears".

I'm not really sure if this is even a good thing if he doesn't really want to get the help for himself.

This is what worries me, my friend. Very manipulative statement by your bf. Doing something to "calm your fears" WTF!!!! Of course you already know that isn't going to work if he doesn't want this help for himself. He's manipulating you by saying, in essence "I am not an addict. You are a crazy codie, but I'll go get these shut-up pills and take 'em to shut you up." If you fall for this line of cr@p, you are going to be disapointed.

Suboxone treatment works only for those of us (and I am one) who are totally done with getting high. On everything. And willing to completely commit to treatment. It isn't just a fix-it-all pill you take. I had to stop taking all other meds and drinking. I had to be willing to do exactly what your doctor tells you every day. Take exactly correct doses. Go to appointments on time, every time. Take no other opiates at all, ever. Stop getting high and drunk. Attend NA or AA meetings daily for a while. Get a sponsor. Get a network. Call the network. Do stepwork. Live the program.

Suboxone isn't a magic pill. It won't work for him if his current level of commitment is as you stated, to make you happy. You need to stay out of it and let him hit bottom for him to have any hope of getting into recovery. The best thing you can do is to get out of the way. If that means you need to leave him for your peace of mind because it is too painful to watch, I would totally understand. It's hard to watch an addict in denial.

Love,
KJ

[scaredtostp]

I dont understand the part of being in a relationship, and just looking out for you, when your in a relationshi your there for each other through thick and thin, in good and bad times. When i hear people say forget about him, you cant help him, so just look after youself, is it just the opposite that was the reason this forum was started to help one another, we do help complete strangers on these forums some thousands of miles and oceans apart, and yet you say, dont help the one you love. help yourself. I find that very selfish

[scaredtostp]

encouragement is always better than abandonment, suppor and encourage him, he will realize he needs help in the long run and i would not be able to live with the guilt if i left someone to make their own decision and something terrible happened, their decisions are what got them into this mess in the first place....

[kj3880]

Well, Scaredtostop, you are probably not a codependent living in a situation with an active addict. I would guess that you are an addict in active addiction. I personally don't recommend that anyone live with someone who is in active addiction but is not in treatment. It makes for a terrible home life, as we all know. It is different if the person is in a program, such an NA, or IOP, intensively following a course of treatment. If the addict is seeking out other addicts to fellowship with and doing all that he/she can to get better, I could understand sticking it out, if the OP wanted to do it.

But in this case, the OP describes a b/f who isn't even admitting an addiction at all. And as we all know, nobody can get better without first admitting they have a problem. The OP has admitted considering leaving this situation and I would wholeheartedly support that decision if the bf refuses to admit there is an addiction and refuses to immediately seek treatment and where it is plain to everyone but him that he is an addict. Heck, I'd support her decision to leave just because she doesn't want to deal with an addict. You know, we aren't exactly Disneyland as we first go through our step work. Most of us are moody, manipulative, deceitful, and toxic for the first couple of years even in recovery. Sorry to be the one to break that to you!

What is your stake here in encouraging this woman to stay with an active addict in denial about his condition? Why should she settle for that kind of life? I wouldn't. Are you encouraging her to stay because you are hoping your loved one(s) stay with you in your active addiction? If that is the case, it's selfish. If not, I apologize. Scaredtostop, stop being scared and get into your recovery! It's better on the other side of this, I promise~

Love,
KJ

[justtired]

I can kind of see where scaredtostop is coming from. If my bf was in some kind of recovery, I would totally stand behind him and encourage him. But KJ is right, without him admitting to having a problem, there is nothing to encourage. And yes, he may eventually "get it", but how long does a person wait and what do they wait through hoping for that to happen. I don't like the idea of leaving someone who has a problem that they can't see. It's horrible to sit and watch someone destroy themselves. It's not something that anyone wants to do. I do think that it's interesting that everyone who loves an addict is labeled codependent (but that's a whole other topic ). The reason I'm looking for this information is not so that I can help HIM or try to make him find recovery. Although of course I want for him to get the help he needs and find recovery, I understand that I can't do that for him. But I do need to figure out what's best for me and what I should do next. I'm sure it's just wishful thinking that makes me even question if suboxone can help someone who isn't actively searching out help. But I also know that I know very little about it. It makes sense to me that if someone took this med and felt better, that they might say, wow, I feel really good and want to keep doing this because I'm able to get more done, don't feel sick etc. I've heard that it can be abused which I don't totally get because I thought it had a ceiling. I thought that was the whole point behind it that after you took a certain amount, it did nothing more for you. I don't know. Just looking for some thoughts and ideas to chew on I guess. I will lose a lot if I have to walk away. I want to know all of my options and know as much about them as possible because, unfortunately, I've gotten myself into a situation where if I leave him, I lose much more than just him. And if he hits bottom, I do too. It could ruin me financially for life. So I'm collecting information and taking my decision very seriously, not just for his sake, but for my own...

Thank you for your responses. I really do appreciate all the help I receive from all of the kind people on these boards.

[kj3880]

Originally Posted by justtired

But I do need to figure out what's best for me and what I should do next. I'm sure it's just wishful thinking that makes me even question if suboxone can help someone who isn't actively searching out help.

I've gotten myself into a situation where if I leave him, I lose much more than just him. And if he hits bottom, I do too. It could ruin me financially for life. So I'm collecting information and taking my decision very seriously, not just for his sake, but for my own...

Two different issues, I think. I wish I understood how to multiquote, but I don't, so I'll address them as 1 and 2.

1. What is best for you: good to hear you're thinking that way. You are right, suboxone is useless for someone who isn't ready. A big waste of money and a waste of a spot at the sub doc for someone who is ready. So don't bother with it if he still wants to get high. Yep, people can abuse anything. It's hard to abuse sub, but it can be done, with determination. Heck, I knew an addict who smoked lettuce to get high in jail.

2. Being ruined financially for life: How is he in control of that????!!!???? Nobody can ruin you "for life" unless you are a life-long slave or something. I mean, I'm sure there can be financial consequences here in a breakup, maybe even some long-term ones, but "for life???" Really? Does he control your credit or something?

Never stay with anyone for money. They'll make sure you earn it. And an active addict will ruin you financially if you stay with him. I guarantee it.

Love,
KJ

[justtired]

KJ - I always enjoy reading your responses. You seem very level-headed and I like the way you process information.

Addiction is just so confusing. I've never been around it before. He used to drink, but he never was in denial that it was an issue. And when it was hurting our relationship, he quit and I thought those issues were a problem of the past. Denial is just baffling to me. It's sad that he tells me that he'll try subs and even go into a 30-day treatment if I tell him he needs to. He says he doesn't want to hit bottom so if I ever told him that he needed help, he'd get it. He's trying to protect himself. Probably so he can keep abusing, but have a safety net so he doesn't have to lose everything. Makes it very frustrating for me because while I know I could "make" him do these things, I also know it will probably not help him any. I'll leave the decision up to him and his doc about whether or not he try the subs. His doc knows his situation and can decide better than I can what is best for him.

Anyway, yeah, I'm not sure about being financially ruined for life. This is probably something I should look into more closely actually. We own property together (you may have read other posts where I talked about our business). He manages the properties full-time and I work full-time and work on our business as well. All of the properties are in both his name and mine. We've been struggling to make it lately because of issues his addiction caused months ago, but we're scraping by and are building our way back up. But, it could have very serious consequences for me if he should hit bottom or start using mortgage money to buy pills etc. Right now he is functional. But who knows how long he'll remain that way. It's a scary position to be in.

[kj3880]

I think that you should insist that if he wants to remain in business with you, that the deeds be put in your name until he's been clean and sober for 2 years. And if he is willing to go into a 30-day residential treatment, let him go. Unlike suboxone treatment, residential treatment can be transformative in someones' life even if they are initially in denial, sometimes. It is possible. At least he would have a chance. As long as you don't have to pay for it.

Have him get you a power of attorney for the 30 days and use it to get as much put in your name as possible. Divide up your money and deny him access to your accounts for now.

If he decides not to go to treatment, I'd leave. (lots of addicts offer to go until the bed becomes available, but then suddenly, they are "too busy") Wait until you see all the emergencies he comes up with when he's faced with inpatient treatment!

If you decide to stay with someone who isn't seeking treatment for an active addiction, well...fasten your seatbelt, it's gonna be a bumpy ride...

Love,
KJ

[justtired]

It's interesting to hear your thoughts on inpatient treatment. In talking to my counselor and others, I've always been told the same thing... if he isn't going for himself, it won't help. He even told his doctor that if he ever thought he needed to go that he would. His doc never has suggested that he go either. So maybe I should rethink encouraging that. I am curious if he'd go or if he's all talk.

Good idea with having the deeds transferred, but I don't think he'll go for it since he doesn't think he has a problem. If he KNEW he had a problem, then I'm sure he would understand. He doesn't have access to my accounts right now, but most of my money goes for bills so I don't have a huge amount of money or anything. Our business account he has access to and has to for obvious reasons.

Anyway, since this is WAY off the topic of subs, I'll stop my ramblings. Thank you though for chatting. It's been helpful.

[kj3880]

I wouldn't worry about staying on topic on SR too much. Nobody else does, either! Good luck to you!

KJ

[christin1225]

Obviously, I missed the action on this thread. Nevertheless, I must comment because when I first read KJ's reply, I was like: KJ, I like you and all, but get a heart!

Reading through the posts though, I have learned sooo much. Thank you, KJ, for speaking a hard truth and thank you justtired for remaining open to hear that wisdom so that I could hear it too. (I guess that I must confess to being an addict with strong codie tendancies.)

This thread is nothing less than enlightening. Although the topic came to a close, I hope that many read it and learn from it. What were subtle hints of unwillingness from justtired's bf slapped me in the face as obvious once KJ pointed them out. As I said, enlightening. Thank you, ladies.

Oh btw, justtired, I hope that you come back and visit us often.