4th Step instructions are on pp 64, 65 and 66 of the BB

[McGowdog]

Unless, of course, you write a 4 column inventory. Then you can go to page 67 too. PP 67-70 for fear and sex. Yes, sex is on page 69! But not so in the 1st edition and maybe the 2nd edition. I can't remember about the 2nd Edition.

I write a 3 column inventory and I focus a whole bunch on the 3rd column.

I start with a Resentment inventory, then a fear inventory, then a sex-harms done to others- inventory.

Start on top of a page of a spiral notebook and I like to leave the left page for columns 1 and 2 and the right page for column 3, and I start the top of the page with "God, I pray Truth flows from this pen" or something like that. Oh, and before we write, we review steps 1, 2, and 3; maybe even get on your knees and say the 3rd Step prayer.

The 1st column is which person, institution or Principle with which we are burned up, with whom we have a grudge, or with whom hurt, threatened or interfered with us. Start heading with , "I am resentful at..."

The 2nd column is what they did to us. Be honest and be specific. Start heading with "The cause..."

The 3rd column; Start heading with "Affects my..."

• Self Esteem- I am... start the sentence off with I am... the Engineer, etc.

• Security- I need... start the sentence off with I need... power, respect, compensation, etc.

• Ambition- I want... start the sentence off with I want... praise, adulation, prestige, etc.

• Personal Relations- men (how men treat other men or how women treat other women, etc.

• Sex Relations- women (how women treat men or how men treat women

......different than the 12 and 12, but this is how we do it [keep in mind there are 3 inventories here. Sex isn't about sex here; it's about how gender relates to the resentment]

• Pocketbook- what is money? Often, money is about power and control, etc.

I don't write about pride. I know that Joe and Charlie did. But what do I care about how others view me? That gets taken care of in Self Esteem.

We always write the 3rd column from the positive too. We are writing from how we behave and think when we're playing God. Keep that 2nd column dribble out of the 3rd column.

This is how I write inventory and I do like the 12 and 12's description of our God-given instincts and how we need them to survive, but us alkies demand way more than our share of them and step on other's toes.

So in just writing these 3 columns, we don't conclude. When you write a 4th column, you conclude and then your ego just runs and hides. You can't fool or trick your ego this way. And we can't fight or kill our ego. I hear this is a bad mistake. We can, from time to time, smash our ego though. So what we do is let the wound lay open and fester. When we share this in our 5th step, the 4th column comes out. We see, once we talk with our mouths to another person and God, this inventory. We see, in broad daylight, how we've harmed another.

It's very fortunate if you see more than a few truths in your whole inventory. Some say it's like peeling back the layers of an onion. I agree with this. If God let us see all of our defects of character all in one shot, I think our heads would explode.

When I'm 5th stepping this and my advisor mentions things that I didn't see or identifies harm I caused, I jot that down for my 8th step list and take it to my 6th and 7th step to ask God to remove them.

Anyway, thoughts? What's your experience?

I hear a guy say taking inventory is like performing surgery on yourself or like a guided trip to Hell. The process don't seem that bad when you're in it, but there's always something in me that fights it.

Oh, when you're done writing for the day, close it up with a prayer or meditate on the line "In God's protection and care with complete abandon". Don't go out into the world raw and expect the world to tolerate your bad behavior just because you're writing inventory. Don't cause new inventory, in other words.

But it's been my experience that when I'm writing inventory, my resentments come flying at me. It's a trip.

[sugErspun]

Interesting about not going into Pride.

I had to take a look there, because a lot of what I did was based on "What I thought you think about me..." It's not actually what they think about me, but my perception of such that creates problems - me causing harm. Not to mention that pride certainly blocks me from others and if it blocks me from others it is blocking me from God...

[McGowdog]

I've tried to write about it before and it just seems to come out in Self Esteem and Ambition.

If it works for you, have at it!

Gee, I wonder what kind of lunatic they think I am.

Keep in mind, I write from the positive...aka...I'm God. So if you think anything of me, it should be how much of a spiritual giant you think I am and you shouldn't even be on my 4th step Resentment inventory in the 1st place! Don't you know who the heck I am?

[jimhere]

Actually I don't think you are a lunatic because I write inventory pretty much the same way, except I use a fear inventory format shown to me by Don pritts.

The extended third-column "theater of the lie" format was shown to us by Frank McKibben. About fifteen years ago I sat in a weekend long theater of the lie retreat with Joe Hawk and Mark H. It was pretty intense and I've been writing inventory that way ever since.

I don't use this format with brand new people though. I go pretty much straight out of the book. The theater of the lie is pretty advanced stuff.

[McGowdog]

OMG! I know that dude! I used to go to Happy Way sometimes. You ever meet a guy named Ted? Or Mike S?

I am a Monday Nighter, although I'm down in Pueblo. We have a little satelite meeting that comes from that group. Gary C, a good friend of Frank's (God Rest His Soul) started it about 9 years ago.

I do different things with fear. My fear inventory usually looks like this;

Fear

I'll lose my job. Which will lead to, I'll lose my house. Which will lead to, I'll lose my wife. Which will lead to, I'll lose my hope and drink again. Which will lead to, I'll get locked up and lose everything else. Which will lead to, I'll die. Which will lead to, there'll be no God... which will be just fine, because...

















































THAT'S WHERE I STARTED FROM!!!!!!!!!

[jimhere]

[QUOTE=McGowdog;2194051]OMG! I know that dude! I used to go to Happy Way sometimes. You ever meet a guy named Ted? Or Mike S?

I am a Monday Nighter, although I'm down in Pueblo. We have a little satelite meeting that comes from that group. Gary C, a good friend of Frank's (God Rest His Soul) started it about 9 years ago.

I do different things with fear. My fear inventory usually looks like this;

Fear

I'll lose my job. Which will lead to, I'll lose my house. Which will lead to, I'll lose my wife. Which will lead to, I'll lose my hope and drink again. Which will lead to, I'll get locked up and lose everything else. Which will lead to, I'll die. Which will lead to, there'll be no God... which will be just fine, because...



I first met Big Frank at the very first Fellowship Of The Spirit Conference in Breckenridge in 1993. I first met a lot of people there-Bob O., Mickey & Marie M., Gary B., people like that. Is Ted Ted K. from Denver? I've been to Happy Way before. That was Bob O.'s home group and Janice Del Campo's as well.

Your fear inventory looks similiar to mine if that is the "Why I Have It" column. An Example:

I fear being broke. (Column One)

Column Two, Why do I have it?: I'll feel like a loser, all my friends will be a loser, my creditors will yell at me, I'll be homeless, I'll lose my car, my life will mean nothing, everyone will abandon me and I'll be all alone, I'll be miserable and depressed and either drink again or blow my head off.

Column Three, How has self-reliance failed me? I use money to look good, I use money for emotional security, I don't rely on God.

Column Four, "Dear God, please remove this fear of being broke and direct my attention to what You would have me be."

God would have me be: Thrifty, generous, a good steward of what passes through my hands.

[McGowdog]

Yeah, that's a good breakdown of fear. The more real, honest, detail, the better.

Frank was one rough dude. He died of cancer, but about 1.5 years after he was supposed to. I just got back from a retreat in Buena Vista with that group. Ted worked for the Water place and yes, he went to Happy Way on Wednesday nights. Bob O went on Tuesday nights. I saw Don P give a 12 Traditions workshop there on a Saturday.

The last time I saw Joe Hawk (God rest his soul) I almost got into a fight with him. We were at that FOTS conference in about 07' during my BB birthday, late July, and he was telling me your 1st step is that "You will drink again!" I was new, but I was so coming from this place that I was "spiritually fit" and that there was NO WAY I could drink again in that state. I had no idea who I was arguing with.

Whenever I 5th Step fear, I'm always kind of disappointed on how the person hearing my 5th step doesn't do much fear inventory, so it's like they can't hear it or something.

Mark H used to come to some of my other meetings in Denver... a guy named Bill Hubble is a guy that I've done steps with and Mark came to his meetings when he was in town. Both Mark H and Joe Hawk had their name on the Monday Night group list when I went there from 06' to 09', but I never remember seeing them there when I was there.

[FightingIrish]

I spent 35 years living in this state of mind. I just thought that was the way it was (which it was). I didn't know there was an alternative, and it's still way too automatic for my taste...

I'll lose my job. Which will lead to, I'll lose my house. Which will lead to, I'll lose my wife. Which will lead to, I'll lose my hope and drink again. Which will lead to, I'll get locked up and lose everything else. Which will lead to, I'll die. Which will lead to, there'll be no God... which will be just fine, because...

Column Two, Why do I have it?: I'll feel like a loser, all my friends will be a loser, my creditors will yell at me, I'll be homeless, I'll lose my car, my life will mean nothing, everyone will abandon me and I'll be all alone, I'll be miserable and depressed and either drink again or blow my head off.

[McGowdog]

Originally Posted by FightingIrish

I spent 35 years living in this state of mind. I just thought that was the way it was (which it was). I didn't know there was an alternative, and it's still way too automatic for my taste...

Well, I don't think there is an alternative for the sick alcoholic...drunk or sober.

Remember the line, "We couldn't wish it away, any more than alcohol." I think that applies to fear too; especially when we're being "driven by fear." It's as you say, normal to us.

But we have a ton of tools to get out of fear. Eckhart Tolle uses one that works sometimes, as well as David Hawkings (sp?); just become aware of it and observe it. Don't fight it. Just acknowlege it. It then sort of loses its power and can be broken down to, "Am I in any immediate danger? Will it kill me? Am I being chased by tigers? Well, no. Just a slight pressure, an increased pulse, sweating, some uneasiness and tightening in the stomach." Just breathe. Live in this moment. This breath is where God is.

And... before you know it, the fear is gone, the situation eradicated.

Or, ask God to remove the fear. Many many things we can do to get out of the fear.

But when I'm inventorying my fear, it's not usually at that particular moment. I look at what has been eating at me in the last year or so... and what's present at the time. Some fears from last year/inventory are gone! Some defects are gone too. Some, I hope never come back.

Fear of looking for a better job. How about this one? You have any current or recent experience in this one? I do.

[McGowdog]

And I still have this fear today. I hear it's easier to look for another job when you already have one.

I'm not ready to bail yet. Is the ship sinking? Are we already under water?

Failure is sort of not an option when you're in business with family. Or is this just another fear?

[Ago]

Are there any good links to this theater of the lie explanation that you trust?

To me this seems pretty clear:

Referring to our list again. Putting out of our minds the wrongs others had done, we resolutely looked for our own mistakes. Where had we been selfish, dishonest, self-seeking and frightened? Though a situation had not been entirely our fault, we tried to disregard the other person involved entirely. Where were we to blame? The inventory was ours, not the other man's. When we saw our faults we listed them. We placed them before us in black and white. We admitted our wrongs honestly and were willing to set these matters straight.

BB 1st ed

My resistance to the three column inventory is pretty strong, my initial reaction and thought is of course you'd like to do an inventory which doesn't list "your part", it seems to me like a "get out of jail free" card and typical alcoholic evasion, and my thinking is "follow instructions" and the instructions say to list your faults in black and white, there is not a great deal of room for ambiguity there to me, but I have an open enough mind to take a look at this thing you are talking about here.

I do wait until I sit down with a sponsor to do the 4th column, a solitary self appraisal is inefficient at best, an outright lie at worst, tending to slide towards the latter.

[stone]

We always write the 3rd column from the positive too. We are writing from how we behave and think when we're playing God. Keep that 2nd column dribble out of the 3rd column.

Do you mean like, "Don't these people know who I am!" type of thing? Like, "I am the cleverest person in the room and Mr X can't see that"?

[jimhere]

Originally Posted by stone

Do you mean like, "Don't these people know who I am!" type of thing? Like, "I am the cleverest person in the room and Mr X can't see that"?

Exactly. That is the role I assign myself, or self-esteem. Pride is how they are supposed to see me in this role and then treat me accordingly.

"which doesn't list "your part"

Andrew, I think the idea is that it is all my part. As long as I believe you still have a part, I will never get free.

[stone]

Originally Posted by jimhere

Exactly. That is the role I assign myself, or self-esteem. Pride is how they are supposed to see me in this role and then treat me accordingly.

Thanks Jim. I had previously just used a print out and ticked off self-esteem etc. I will try this way next time.

"which doesn't list "your part"

"Your part" is the fourth column that we are not using? But we can come back to the inventory and then see "our part" as regards any amends that need making?

[Ago]

Andrew, I think the idea is that it is all my part. As long as I believe you still have a part, I will never get free.

Aaaah

Ok, I get there with four columns, understood

[McGowdog]

Originally Posted by Ago

Are there any good links to this theater of the lie explanation that you trust?

To me this seems pretty clear:
..

No, what we do is suggested, as is the Big Book itself. So do it or don't.

We write our inventory from the positive because that's what the book tells us to do. If you think what we do is different from the book, then we are wrong.

These guys just got together and looked at other books and other "experts" out there that did confession and came up with this. There may even be a "theatre of the lie" book out there somewhere. I haven't read it.

We don't do a 4th column because you can duck experience there, conclude, get relief and call yourself names. It's "just sloppy writing" as Frank says, written by people educated far beyond their intelligence.

Look at the 1st requirement in the 3rd step; any life run on self will can hardly be of success. It also gives us the statement of hope... the biggest one in the whole book; So our troubles we think, are of our own making.

So what kills us alkies? Our horrible awful things we did drinking? Our badness and wrongness? No. It's our goodness that kills us. Our rightness. Our ritcheousness. Us knowing how the world ought to go and how we know what's best, for ourselves and for others. WE want to be the Director. That's the same thing as saying we want to play God.

Well in column 1, we write down what the bitch did. We write what the son of a bitch did to us.

Then in the 2nd column, we take their inventory. Then, most of the inventory is in the 3rd column. We write on each and every one of those 6 things, if they're applicable.

Then when we 5th Step it, we turn that line between the 2nd or 3rd column into a lie.

You can do Theatre of the Lie in a group on a couple of pieces of inventory if you wish. It's not always necessary.

We start writing on September 1st. We're to be done with amends by Thanksgiving. I bought my spiral notebook day before yesterday.

[Ago]

I don't really understand what you are saying, I do the steps PRECISELY how they are laid out in the book, and that includes this:

Referring to our list again. Putting out of our minds the wrongs others had done, we resolutely looked for our own mistakes. Where had we been selfish, dishonest, self-seeking and frightened? Though a situation had not been entirely our fault, we tried to disregard the other person involved entirely. Where were we to blame? The inventory was ours, not the other man's. When we saw our faults we listed them. We placed them before us in black and white. We admitted our wrongs honestly and were willing to set these matters straight.

BB 1st ed

No, what we do is suggested, as is the Big Book itself. So do it or don't.

Frankly I find statements such as this unhelpful, offputting, snide, conceited, arrogant, sarcastic and rude with a side of assumption that others are 'doing it wrong" and no one is "doing it right" unless they "do it" your way, which frankly I don't agree with because it doesn't match the part in the fourth step where it clearly states in black and white "When we saw our faults we listed them" and "we placed them before us in black and white" so I am asking for clarity not snide and arrogant comments

[FightingIrish]

I like a lot of what Frank McK. has to say and find it helpful in my recovery.

Until I have need for some of the dogmatism, however, I'll leave that behind.

Sort of like the way I approach the Big Book.

[McGowdog]

Originally Posted by Ago

Frankly I find statements such as this unhelpful, offputting, snide, conceited, arrogant, sarcastic and rude with a side of assumption that others are 'doing it wrong" and no one is "doing it right" unless they "do it" your way, which frankly I don't agree with because it doesn't match the part in the fourth step where it clearly states in black and white "When we saw our faults we listed them" and "we placed them before us in black and white" so I am asking for clarity not snide and arrogant comments

Wow. That's too bad. I'm just saying we know it's different than how most people interpret the book and how most do 4th steps.

We like to say upfront that if you think WE are doing it wrong, we're not going to argue that. We have experience doing inventory both ways; 3 column and 4 column and we like the way we are doing it. I definitely have good experience doing 3 column and have heard a number of people's 4th steps that do the 4 column and I don't judge their work. I just try to help them see truth in their 4th column.

If you don't like my post or comments, you ought to put me on ignore rather than drag me through the mud like you did, calling me

Originally Posted by ago

unhelpful, offputting, snide, conceited, arrogant, sarcastic and rude with a side of assumption

I have feelings too and you just really hurt mine.

[Ago]

I have feelings too and you just really hurt mine.

If I misunderstood your intent and content and what I had to say hurt your feelings I wholeheartedly apologize and will take care in the future to be more careful in my responses to you.

[McGowdog]

Well thank you. I thought we were sort of starting to get along too, despite our actual or perceived differences.

What I said upfront was nothing to your post in general, but was just sort of a "standard disclaimer" about my group. Whenever I discuss or describe what my home group is like in here, about 2 posters sound interested and relate while several others meet it with disapproval... so I try to explain that we are different than the mainstream.

I think we all have given our best shot at following the directions/suggestions precisely as we can at the time... yet we can still confuse the thing.

There are things we do blatantly different than what other groups do and we don't think it's always us that has strayed from the book. I suppose we do things above and beyond what the book says, but there's always a reason for it. It came out of strong group conscience meetings and personal experience. We also don't follow the stories in the back of the book, the 12 traditions short form, the A.A. Grapevine, the 12 x 12, or any of the AAWS pamphlets.

If you're in our group and want to do a 4 column inventory, that's fine too. We don't force anybody to write 3 column inventory. But I'm learning more and more about why they went that way in the first place. More importantly, I have good experience with it. It may not be recommended for the new person. I did it that way after about my 3rd inventory. Prior to that, I did the Hazleton Joe and Charlie type checkmark 3rd and 4th column. It was ok... back then. But I wouldn't do it that way again.

Hope all is well. I don't like to fight and argue. Yesterday was rough for me.

[Ago]

Hope all is well. I don't like to fight and argue. Yesterday was rough for me.

Me too, I was a bit rough around the edges when I responded, I do apologize, I will ask some specific questions about the topic/ideas presented here after I get some more coffee in me.

I agree we have come a long way as well, and as time has gone on been much more on the same page, we are on "the same side" it's helpful if I remember that.

[sugErspun]

I always think of the theatre of the lie as an expanded third column.

It can be extrememly helpful, and it not really intended for the first time doing an inventory.

Moreso, I do not see it as any deviance from the inventory laid out in the book, just a little more specific than the examples given.

[stone]

I still wonder about amends, doesn't that normally come from the 4th column?

[Ago]

Originally Posted by stone

I still wonder about amends, doesn't that normally come from the 4th column?

It does for me, IMO that's what they mean when they say "referring to our list again"