4th Step instructions are on pp 64, 65 and 66 of the BB

[sugErspun]

If the 4th column is about "me" and what I do with resentment (just sticking to that inventory for this post), then the harm I caused others will show up there.

Those harms make up most of my 8th step list. But there are some people I harmed that did not show up in my resentment, fear or sex conduct inventories ~ so I said a prayer that I be shown if there is anyone I am missing.

New names, old memories pop up all the time. I quickly inventory it, and more importantly - set out to make ammends if it is appropriate.

[McGowdog]

Originally Posted by stone

I still wonder about amends, doesn't that normally come from the 4th column?

Sure, it can. But it can also come from our 3rd column, especially if we don't write a 4th column. If I'm not mistaken, the example in the book shows a three column inventory, then on page 80 (1st ed) it says, "When we saw our faults we listed them. We placed them before us in black and white. We admitted our wrongs honestly and were willing to set these matters straight."

They just put self esteem down, then some get Sex relations, security, personal relationship, they even list Pride. Pride would make 7 things, we do six. But in any case, we expand our 3rd column out.. with words like "I am (self esteem)", "I need (security)", "I want (ambition)", "Sex relations (opposite sex is what we do... so if you're a man, you write how a woman should act)", "personal relations (how a man should act)", "pocketbook (what is money)"...

So then they put fear aside the "instinct". We don't. We write a whole other inventory for fear, then sex.

But we don't list our faults right then and there. We go and 5th step it and just read those 3 columns. I have a pen handy too. Sometimes the guy who is hearing my 5th step points something out. Sometimes, if I see it, we talk about it and then I write it down. I can always return to the list later too... like during my 8th step list. Maybe I've missed something until I do 6 and 7.

Now we're talking about steps. This is good.

[stone]

Originally Posted by Ago

It does for me, IMO that's what they mean when they say "referring to our list again"

Yea, that's how I have always seen it too but I can see what McDog means too.

I have only done the 4th and 5th step once and then taken care of things through step 10 though I can see the value of a yearly 4th and 5th.

I am doing the steps again from scratch (the first time I stayed sober for 6 months and then drank again) and I am up to step 4 now. I am going to do a 4 column inventory like last time but I am intrigued by McDog's way and will keep it in mind, along with the idea of yearly 4th and 5th's.

[keithj]

Just my two cents. I've done 4th steps a few different ways. First time through it, it was a basic 4 column inventory, with that fourth column being the directions from the "referring to our list again" part. Where had I been selfish, dishonest, self-seeking, and afraid? In that format, the 3rd column was very check-off sort of thing, listing personal realtions or pocketbook as they applied. Fear and sex were separate.

I've done that 3 column inventory much like McGowdog describes. At least I think so from his description. It's a really, really good way of doing it. Written from a place of high self-esteem, I ask specific questions about those 6 or 7 areas (self-esteem, pride, etc.). This puts all of the focus on my reaction to those resentments. I love that method.

My preference is to do the 3rd column like McGowdog, and then do a 4th column asking the specific selfish, dishonest, self-seeking, fear questions. One other thing I add is a realization part before the 4th column. Directions come from,

"This was our course: We realized that the people who wronged us were perhaps spiritually sick. Though we did not like their symptoms and the way these disturbed us, they, like ourselves, were sick too."

I ask, how have I done the thing I'm resentful over to that person or others. It's a neat little tool, and it shows me that the people and events of my resentments are all basically interchangeable. This gets me right into seeing that self-will is my root motivator.

Fun. Lots of ways to do it. Difficult to do it wrong as long as you do it.

Quotes from AA Big Book, 1st Ed.

[jimhere]

I do the extended third column and then a fourth column as well.

What I see from writing the extended third column is exactly what Keith describes. Low self-esteem is not my problem.
Jim

[McGowdog]

No it isn't, is it? If I had low self esteem I wouldn't be playing God ... aka the Director... in the first place and I'd have no resentment.

But something I had a very recent revelation on... something I brought up in my lead on Saturday, was the fact that it's our rightness, our goodness... our righteousness that gets us. So the horrible things we did drunk and sober are wonderful and all...but what about me now? I'm recovered. I'm a sober alcoholic. This is how it is. I have this wonderful experience. I know how to get and stay sober, and I'm now a Spiritual Giant. (please don't laugh. Play along for a bit) Now I have a gauge with which to measure you. I have moral and philosophical convictions galore. If I see you doing wrong, I'm going to notice and judge you. I may do the same thing from time to time, but I can justify my behavior, because I'm God.

Now... I'm in this state and don't even recognize it unless I'm doing very well with prayer and meditation, work with other drunks and/or sponsorship, etc. And we can go very far on 10, 11, and 12. But what's the problem? Yesterday's experience becomes today's ego trip. I cannot live today on yesterday's food. Use it up for all it's worth, but Power doesn't last forever. We're encouraged to get into the center of the meeting where Power is. We don't sit in the back or around the edges and play it safe.

Every year that I've come out of a 5th step and gone to God, it's always been with mud on my face and blood on my hands. I have yet to come to God wearing white robes and saying , "Here I am, God... deserving of Your Grace with nobility and humility and without need of forgiveness. I've earned it!" No. I come in need of forgiveness, in need of God's Grace, and am forgiveable. But I don't want to have to be forgiven. I want to earn it. Why? Because I don't want to be beholden to God or anybody. My ego has rebuilt.

So I do the work again.

[sugErspun]

Good stuff McG.

Over and again, yes.

Though, I don't much relate to the desire to be forgiven. I didn't even have a sense that I was seeking forgiveness as much as I was trying to get down to that which blocked me..there isn't so much a sense of right vs wrong, as there is "What is going on? What harm have I caused?"

An interesting take though, food for thought.

In the end ~ I think when we "look at them from an entirely different angle", it is about forgiveness on our part...and like that wonderful prayer that somehow gets a bad name "forgive us and we forgive"....

good thread.

~a

[McGowdog]

I guess it depends which character defect I'm looking at. I asked God to remove tobacco from me. I saw it like you did; something blocking me. I didn't see it as me being wreckless and destructive so much... except when some of my loved ones would "nag" me about it.

I think it goes back to us being unclear or insensitive to harm. You go through Sacraments of Pennance and it bloodies you up pretty good. But we don't use that till the 8th step when we're making that list. Come to think of it, I do believe that forgiveness is an 8th step principle. But it's easier for me to forgive you and let lose of my resentment to you when I see what I'm up to and my own human-ness. That LP says we forgive first before we can expect to be forgiven.

Sometimes we caused harm without a resentment which was mentioned earlier. Those are scary.

[Ago]

Originally Posted by McGowdog

No it isn't, is it? If I had low self esteem I wouldn't be playing God ... aka the Director... in the first place and I'd have no resentment.

But something I had a very recent revelation on... something I brought up in my lead on Saturday, was the fact that it's our rightness, our goodness... our righteousness that gets us. So the horrible things we did drunk and sober are wonderful and all...but what about me now? I'm recovered. I'm a sober alcoholic. This is how it is. I have this wonderful experience. I know how to get and stay sober, and I'm now a Spiritual Giant. (please don't laugh. Play along for a bit) Now I have a gauge with which to measure you. I have moral and philosophical convictions galore. If I see you doing wrong, I'm going to notice and judge you. I may do the same thing from time to time, but I can justify my behavior, because I'm God.

Now... I'm in this state and don't even recognize it unless I'm doing very well with prayer and meditation, work with other drunks and/or sponsorship, etc. And we can go very far on 10, 11, and 12. But what's the problem? Yesterday's experience becomes today's ego trip. I cannot live today on yesterday's food. Use it up for all it's worth, but Power doesn't last forever. We're encouraged to get into the center of the meeting where Power is. We don't sit in the back or around the edges and play it safe.

Every year that I've come out of a 5th step and gone to God, it's always been with mud on my face and blood on my hands. I have yet to come to God wearing white robes and saying , "Here I am, God... deserving of Your Grace with nobility and humility and without need of forgiveness. I've earned it!" No. I come in need of forgiveness, in need of God's Grace, and am forgiveable. But I don't want to have to be forgiven. I want to earn it. Why? Because I don't want to be beholden to God or anybody. My ego has rebuilt.

So I do the work again.

I call this phenomenon the "good actor blues"

In trying to make these arrangements our actor may sometimes be quite virtuous. He may be kind, considerate, patient, generous; even modest and self-sacrificing.

On the other hand, he may be mean, egotistical, selfish and dishonest. But, as with most humans, he is more likely to have varied traits.

What usually happens? The show doesn't come off very well. He begins to think life doesn't treat him right. He decides to exert himself more. He becomes, on the next occasion, still more demanding or gracious, as the case may be. Still the play does not suit him. Admitting he may be somewhat at fault, he is sure that other people are more to blame. He becomes angry, indignant, self-pitying. What is his basic trouble? Is he not really a self-seeker even when trying to be kind? Is he not a victim of the delusion that he can wrest satisfaction and happiness out of this world if he only manages well? Is it not evident to all the rest of the players that these are the things he wants? And do not his actions make each of them wish to retaliate, snatching all they can get out of the show? Is he not, even in his best moments, a producer of confusion rather than harmony?

It's when I use my virtues as a tool for manipulation

It was particularly troublesome during my 'terrible two's" in sobriety, it's kind of funny (or not) but AA is FULL of people running around trying to "fix" AA displaying these exact characteristics and that's EXACTLY when I had my a-ha moment about it, I had just spent two of the most miserable years of my life running around like a chicken with my head cut off yelling "you're all doing it wrong!!!!"

For every ten guys or so that walk in the rooms, one will pick up the book and work the steps as outlined in the book with a sponsor, the other nine will take up space and "share" their feelings and frustrations, and either skid in and out and eventually get it and work the steps or just go back out or die.

They are AA's "Research and Development" team and they perform a necessary function, many actually. Put a sponsee on getting one of those guys sober and the sponsee will have a year or two pass chasing them around occupying the sponsees free time until one day the sponsee realizes they have had a spiritual awakening because they have worked the steps.

That's why I "view with amusement" those that "view with alarm for the good of AA", they are just having 'the good actor blues", they will either get over it, drink over it, which is eventually what I did or not and just join the ranks of "bleeding deacons"

AA is fun.

[jimhere]

Good insight.

What I've found is that the ego will use anything it can to separate me.

It will take a gift from God and turn it into the noose that is around my neck.

[nixs]

Hello there McGOWDOG-came across your thread regarding inventory -3 col style! Very interesting i heared a Frank MC share online a few years back on this style of inventory. I write 4 col as shown to me by Dan Sherman however i really understand the need for experience over information and trying to stay open rather then concluding! Also dog (hope you dont mind the abbreviation) i am also interested in how you guys go through the process on an ongoing basis! Does the whole group do it or is it a workshop or 121! Im from the uk and attend drug addicts anonymous where we use the BB and have gleaned a lot of experience over the last few years from you guys in the states and colorado appears to be a bit of a hot bed of ideas and good history (I.E don P, frank M joe H Mark H) ive learnt a huge amount listening to them guys! Be cool to get hear your reply on these questions dog!

In fellowship

Rich N (UK)

[CarolD]

nixs...
Welcome to SR
Good to see a neew member with us

[jimhere]

Originally Posted by nixs

Hello there McGOWDOG-came across your thread regarding inventory -3 col style! Very interesting i heared a Frank MC share online a few years back on this style of inventory. I write 4 col as shown to me by Dan Sherman however i really understand the need for experience over information and trying to stay open rather then concluding! Also dog (hope you dont mind the abbreviation) i am also interested in how you guys go through the process on an ongoing basis! Does the whole group do it or is it a workshop or 121! Im from the uk and attend drug addicts anonymous where we use the BB and have gleaned a lot of experience over the last few years from you guys in the states and colorado appears to be a bit of a hot bed of ideas and good history (I.E don P, frank M joe H Mark H) ive learnt a huge amount listening to them guys! Be cool to get hear your reply on these questions dog!

In fellowship

Rich N (UK)

Welcome Rich,

Where do you know Dan Sherman from?

[nixs]

Hi Jim-i got to know Dan about 3 half years back firstly via the web then on the phone! He then introduced me to a feller he sponsors over here (UK) and that man became my sponsor and took me back through the process and ive stayed in touch with Dan ever since, very down to earth man in my experience. Do you know him Jim!

Ive read through some of the posts (only on this thread) but there appears to be some good stuff on here-good to hear people out there sharing about the same stuff i've been taught-though some minor detail differences pretty much the same! I read in one of your posts Jim that you were in a workshop with Mark H and Joe H many years back I think i listened to a cd on that! Did you go through the process with them guys Jim!

[jimhere]

Originally Posted by nixs

Hi Jim-i got to know Dan about 3 half years back firstly via the web then on the phone! He then introduced me to a feller he sponsors over here (UK) and that man became my sponsor and took me back through the process and ive stayed in touch with Dan ever since, very down to earth man in my experience. Do you know him Jim!

Ive read through some of the posts (only on this thread) but there appears to be some good stuff on here-good to hear people out there sharing about the same stuff i've been taught-though some minor detail differences pretty much the same! I read in one of your posts Jim that you were in a workshop with Mark H and Joe H many years back I think i listened to a cd on that! Did you go through the process with them guys Jim!

I know Dan, but not real well. We have just met in passing over the years.

That workshop you are talking about was actually a weekend retreat. It happened in 1994 and I was about three years sober. It was at that deal that I was introduced to the theater of the lie style of extended third column and I've been writing inventory that way ever since. I don't think that retreat was taped though.

Joe Hawk was my first sponsor's sponsor until John (my first sponsor) got Don P. for a sponsor. I went through the process with Joe about five years ago.

[McGowdog]

Welcome to SR Rich!

I just got back from a vacation in the Ozarks.

We do the 12 steps, stressing heavily 4 through 9 as a group yearly; we started right after Labor Day and are to be done with all our amends by the end of Thanksgiving. Then we have the rest of the year to practice 10, 11, and 12. We review steps 1, 2, 3, and 4 via a workshop right at about the first meeting in September to sort of kick things off.

Yeah, Denver and a few retreats in Colorado have been instrumental in my sobriety and have spured a few guys who started out here. There's a gal named Janice D who I remember from Denver as well. I think she used to go to Happy Way, amongst some home group of hers. I recently heard one of her leads. She's funny. She started off in N.A. and said someone from the "God Squad" lined their group out on the steps via the A.A. Big Book.

It's good to hear from you and chat with someone who has heard of some of the same people.

There was this guy from Chicago who I think came down to our Pueblo OcSoberfest several years ago and he impressed me greatly. I think his name was Paul Martin or something like that. Anybody heard of such a guy? He was heavy on orthodox A.A. tradition and may have been the guy promoting multiple 5th Steps.

A guy who did speak at our Ocsoberfest this time was supposedly from Santa Monica but once from Chi-town... Wayne B I think... he was a great speaker. He talked about how some people have "chronic" agnosticism. He seems to have a theory that would describe the difference between Dr Bob (didn't have it) and Bill W. (did have it).

Anywho... welcome again to SR and am looking forward to your posts!

[nixs]

Hey Dog

Thats an interesting method-i heard that chap you mentoned paul martin speak about a similer approach! Couple of questions on that! Do members of the group need to have completed there first set of amends to be able to go through again with the group! Also do you feel the workshop is suffcient for you to have a deep experience with first 3 steps! (Do you have a format that you use in writting to do this! I.E the considerations you use for the steps (especially 123) or do you do things differently each year)!

To be honest i dont know of any group doing that over here-it sounds great to me! Keeps things fresh and keeps you conscious about why we are there (in meetings), as in my experience the ego can hook on to all sort!

Really pleased to have linked up with you guys! thanks for the replys!

Im off-about to take a guys through second half of Bills story!

rich

[McGowdog]

No... we don't make a big huge deal out of 1, 2, and 3. That's something you can do more on your own if you feel you need to. I review 1, 2, and 3 before I sit down to write 4 as well.

We have one more formal rehash of 1, 2, and 3 before we read our 4th Step to whom ever we 5th step with.

You don't have to do a formal set of amends before you start in our group. Whatever step you're on, go from there until you catch up to us. If you're newly sober, you'll be encouraged to get writing a 4th step inventory and get done and 5th step it, do the rest of the middle work and we dont' want to hear from you much until you get those amends done. Those who have done that get to stay sober. Those who don't get drunk and die or go find a more merciful group.

We're not big sponsor-type people in our little group. If you want one of us to be your sponsor we'll do it, but you can't go hiding behind your sponsor because you're fair game for everybody in the group... as everybody in the group is fair game for you. We sort of rip each others covers on a regular basis.

[nixs]

LOL I guess people steer clear of you lot-untill that is the heat is really upon them! Would like to talk further about this but im aware its a step 4 thread! But thanks for taking the time to answer my questions!

[McGowdog]

I'm glad to state my experience and what I've been shown.

I don't know if you've noticed or not, but A.A. in general is pretty steered-clear from lately*. Tis the season. I aim to stay sober through the upcoming "funny" season when a lot of people find a lot of reason for drama.

I'm using the A.A. program to do so. I know this is a 4th step subforum, but any talk of the Steps is music to my ears.

* Go look at the number of recent posts in the 12 Step Support subforum; not a lot of traffic. I've tried to come up with good threads myself and they don't seen to go to far. I've wasted too much energy defending the program lately and taking time from the taking of these steps. As a good new friend of mine recently said, "God and A.A. are powerful enough that They don't need my defense."

[nixs]

hey dog-i hear what your saying! And if they dont mind being open on here then i wont complain! In regard to to 12 step fellowships aa, ca, na i pretty much expect the majority not to be doing whats outlined in the texts, i was educated in that from day one! at present our fellowship in the uk is only 4 meetings, we only started this year having been big bookers in na, so those who come to our fellowship all they here about is bigbook steps and god! We create the fellowship we crave-And long may it continue? Ps i too know what its like to swim against a tied we did that for almost 7 before we moved to daa-hence why coming across this thread was great! Positive for me!

[McGowdog]

Just finished a 4th Step and got it 5th Stepped. I was able to swap 5th Steps with another guy in my home group. It was a grueling task to do both.

When I got home I attempted "taking the book off the shelf" and doing what came next. This time, I was too exhausted to go on. I went to bed and crashed.

The next morning, I got up and went back into the book and read that stuff after "next we launched" and read through all those 4th Step promises Nandm refers to in another thread... read to the end of the chapter, all through Into action up to where it says to look at the 1st five proposals... seeing if my work is solid so far... jotting down any harm I would see opposite the name in the 1st column... and later in my inventory where I list "fears" and "harms done others"...

I read those 5th Step promises... took all that in. I eventually got to the part where it says to "get quiet for an hour"... I literally marked the time as 9:40 am and didn't stop until 10:40 am... carefully reviewing what I did.

When I was done, I looked at steps 6 and 7... it didn't take me long this time before I was doing that 7th Step prayer...

Then I went on to the page after my 4th Step and started an 8th Step list... I went back to my inventory just like it says and just started listing names where I suspected that I'll owe an amend... in some cases, I was able to directly list the nature of the harm that I will be making an amend for.

I will not go on to make the amend until I'm clear on the harm and am contrite for what I've done and have an idea of what I might do to set the matter right... being open to their suggestions and/or requirements.

I will use the Sacrament of Penance to go through and see if there's any additional harm I can amend for or if I'm not clear on any harm I have caused and need to take care of.

I've already made a couple of immediate amends as the opportunity arose and my willingness was also present.

Now I will set out to do each and every one of these amends and hope to be done in 2 weeks or less... God willing. Why? Because that's what I agreed to do in my group... as we all do steps yearly... starting on Labor Day this time and agreeing to be done with all of 9 by Thanksgiving.

So... it takes me almost 60 days to do 4 but only about 14 hours to do 5, 6, 7, and 8. What a deal!

[BrianKirdy]

I just joined this forum and already the first post i read i see, which doesn't surprise me, an alcoholic giving his opinion on how he thinks the 4th step should be done and said something to the affect like" i know it says it in the book but i dont do that!" What Bad advise! Youll be drinking in no time! You know what really i don't understand is if your going to do the steps, why don't you do them the way they are laid out? The Basic text Alcoholics Anonymous is the program of recovery! There is clear cut directions in the book! There is a path to follow! The steps if done correctly, only need to be done Once! You only need to do a 4th step once! The book says "Go on through the list back through your lifetime. Nothing counts but thoroughness and honesty. When you are finished consider it carefully. " it doesnt say do a little now and then a little later peel it like an onion!!!!! And you wont be overwhelmed by all your defects because there all the same in most every resentment! Your selfish, dishonest, self seeking, and afraid. After doing several cause and affects you will see a pattern. That you want something, you lie to yourself and tell yourself that you really need it, and your full of fear that you wont get what you so selfishly tell yourself that you need . Self seeking is what you do to make yourself feel better like lash out, snub, silently scorn the person, argue, gossip, etc.. or you were wrong in the situation and owe an ammends definitely!!! There are more truths in different resentments but you will see a pattern. The book is designed perfectly, the steps are designed perfectly to be followed! You'll continue to do steps 10-11-and 12 the rest of your life after you make all your ammends. But anyone telling you you need to go over ALL the steps again and again doesnt understand the process as its laid out in the big book! You learn to master resentments and are able to make an ammends promptly thats what step 10 is for. Its probably best to go to a big book step study(listed as BB12 in meeting list books) and find a sponsor who has done the steps that way. That is the way the first 100 drunks got sober any other way is the alcoholics easier softer way! I have had a Complete Psychic Change and Spiritual Experience as a result of doing the steps this way. I have Recovered from a seemingly hopeless state of mind. Yes I AM A RECOVERED Alcoholic! Find a online big book and (alt F) Type in "recovered" and youll see how many times in the first few pages alone the pioneers of this program refer to themselves as Recovered alcoholics! Anything less is "UNTREATED ALCOHOLISM" If your gonna do the steps, Do them Right! Your chance of recovery is far greater than listening to one alcoholics opinion!
B-OUT

[sugErspun]

Originally Posted by BrianKirdy

I just joined this forum and already the first post i read i see, which doesn't surprise me, an alcoholic giving his opinion on how he thinks the 4th step should be done and said something to the affect like" i know it says it in the book but i dont do that!" What Bad advise! Youll be drinking in no time! You know what really i don't understand is if your going to do the steps, why don't you do them the way they are laid out? The Basic text Alcoholics Anonymous is the program of recovery! There is clear cut directions in the book! There is a path to follow! The steps if done correctly, only need to be done Once! You only need to do a 4th step once! The book says "Go on through the list back through your lifetime. Nothing counts but thoroughness and honesty. When you are finished consider it carefully. " it doesnt say do a little now and then a little later peel it like an onion!!!!! And you wont be overwhelmed by all your defects because there all the same in most every resentment! Your selfish, dishonest, self seeking, and afraid. After doing several cause and affects you will see a pattern. That you want something, you lie to yourself and tell yourself that you really need it, and your full of fear that you wont get what you so selfishly tell yourself that you need . Self seeking is what you do to make yourself feel better like lash out, snub, silently scorn the person, argue, gossip, etc.. or you were wrong in the situation and owe an ammends definitely!!! There are more truths in different resentments but you will see a pattern. The book is designed perfectly, the steps are designed perfectly to be followed! You'll continue to do steps 10-11-and 12 the rest of your life after you make all your ammends. But anyone telling you you need to go over ALL the steps again and again doesnt understand the process as its laid out in the big book! You learn to master resentments and are able to make an ammends promptly thats what step 10 is for. Its probably best to go to a big book step study(listed as BB12 in meeting list books) and find a sponsor who has done the steps that way. That is the way the first 100 drunks got sober any other way is the alcoholics easier softer way! I have had a Complete Psychic Change and Spiritual Experience as a result of doing the steps this way. I have Recovered from a seemingly hopeless state of mind. Yes I AM A RECOVERED Alcoholic! Find a online big book and (alt F) Type in "recovered" and youll see how many times in the first few pages alone the pioneers of this program refer to themselves as Recovered alcoholics! Anything less is "UNTREATED ALCOHOLISM" If your gonna do the steps, Do them Right! Your chance of recovery is far greater than listening to one alcoholics opinion!
B-OUT

I always find it interesting when someone posts and directly contradicts themselves within the same post.

Having had a pyschic change (thanks for telling us by the way, I never would have guessed based on the above post)..you realize that things come up from our post throughout our lives. We live by Gods grace and that alone.

Let me ask you something. If, say 3 years after you did your fourth step..as thorough as you were at the time you did it, something from your childhood suddenly comes back to you (maybe from early adulthood). Somewhere you caused harm and it was not on your resentment list and ammends were never made.

Do you 10th step something like this? What harm do you see in doing an inventory on a regular basis, or even doing more than 1? I have a good idea - you can PM me if you like, but I smell fear.

I consider myself a recovered alcoholic. A lot of others around here do as well. I would like to welcome you to SR and look forward to hearing your experience with alcoholism and the steps.

Your post is just the same as all the others - an alcoholic giving his opinion on how the 4th step should be done (in this case stating a fourth step should only be done 1 time) I prefer to hear experience I guess.

Welcome,
a