Giving in to the spiritual or personality change

[GodsHolyWill]

*This thread can also be found in the Alcoholism-12 Step Support forum. I am re-posting it here so people in Step 3 can see it and read the great response I got from Veritas1. Here is the question I posted:

One of the pioneers of AA in his story "The Vicious Cycle" in the Big Book writes the following: "When I started to tell the boys how we did it(AA) in New York and all about the spiritual part of the program, I found they would not believe me unless I was practicing what I preached. Then I found that as I gave in to this spiritual or personality change, I was getting a little more serenity."

What does "give in to the spiritual or personality change" mean? Thank you in advance!
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(The book referred to here is the 'Big Book' of Alcoholics Anonymous)
Response from Veritas1:

My initial thoughts upon reading your question are:

Step 3.

Out of self will into God's will.

Read in How it works...from the paragraph starting with selfishness, self-centeredness! That, we think, is the root of our troubles...all the way down to the bottom of the page.

That we had to have God's help. That we stop trying to run the show.

Also reading the appendix Spiritual Experience may be helpful.

You can read the information about personality change (spiritual change), experience, awakening...there.

Dr. Silkworth calls it essential...the psychic change.

When we realize we can't do it on our own, that we need God's help.

Old ideas exchanged for new ideas. Old actions replaced with new actions. Seeking God, his care and direction, versus our ideas and motives.

Let go, Let God.

I will have to re-read the story for myself, and see what God shows me to share about this later.

[GodsHolyWill]

*I'm going to share other responses I've been getting! Here is another response from Veritas1:

I read the story and had some additional thoughts to add.

That the change...giving in to the change meant going from a state of disbelief to belief in God. His agnosticism vanished.

Like he abandoned the position of disbelief in God, or doubts in God.

He talks about the realization of practicing what he preached, which to me meant the steps and reliance on God, or a power greater than ourselves, as he was helping others.

He said as he did this, he found he was giving in to this spiritual or personality change...for him...in that he had gone from agnosticism to faith.

He seemed to be more openminded with regard to faith then he had been which was his personality or spiritual change.

"Giving In" to me sounds like "Giving Up" old ideas and beliefs.

It's like giving in meant he stopped fighting the God idea.

Of course this is just my interpretation.
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[GodsHolyWill]

*Here is a response from yeahgr8:

No idea what that means...i worked the steps with rigorous honesty and did all that was asked of me...it was not a matter of giving in after that, the door was open...the only way to not give in to the spiritual/personality change would be to have not done the initial work in the first place:-)

[GodsHolyWill]

*Here is another response from Veritas1:

If a spiritual experience, awakening, personality change, or psychic change means an awareness of a Power greater than ourselves...or God consciousness as it reads in the appendix on spiritual experience...

Then his giving in to it meant his shift from being closed to that...as an agnostic to one of faith...I think.

[GodsHolyWill]

*Here is a response from recycle:

I am probably not the right person to answer this, since I have not experienced a conversion from agnosticism to theism. At least the sort of theism that seems to be prevalent in the BB. In fact, I see the decision to believe that God has a will that interacts with my life, is in itself an act of self will. I decided to “turn it over” without having to believe that God was looking out for me. The Serenity Prayer nails it for me: Some things I don’t have control over, and I have to be ok with that. Some things I have control over, and I have to do my humble best. Life is about figuring out which is which.

GHW, I think the real important thing is to experience the psychic change for yourself. In my experience, I have not seen a lot of burning bushes, but some time afterword I look back at an experience and realize that some event marked a spiritual experience that made a big change in me.

[GodsHolyWill]

*Here is a response from Mark75:

That pioneer's experience is exactly my own... once I give in to the spiritual/psychic change brought about by working the program of AA... I experience a greater sense of peace, serenity. I see that working almost daily... certainly it did today because today didn't start out so great...

Getting outside of self, letting go, trusting my HP, faith, not having to be the center of my universe, helping others, detaching myself from what I think I want... stuff like that... in my case it is progress not perfection.

"Giving in" to the psychic change, spiritual.... absolutely... it is for me a choice, to give in... to try and "see" things spiritually... or I can stick my head in the sand, feel sorry for myself and be an @sshole all day...

[jhay]

This all makes sense to me, but what if you are afraid of the change? I made it almost 7 months and freaked out when I realized how much I was changing. It didn't feel right or genuine, I was scared of being a "good person" and felt like I was going against everything that was me. I went back out for some time, and of course that wasn't the solution either.

[susanlauren]

What has helped me the most with fear is the "God affirmations" I did in step 4.

"When I trust and rely upon God, I commence to outgrow fear."
"When I trust and rely upon God, He directs my attention to the person He would have me be."
"When I trust and rely upon God, I can play the role He assigns."
"When I trust and rely upon God, He enables me to match calamity with serenity."
"When I trust and rely upon God, He demonstrates through me what He can do."
"When I trust and rely upon God, I am given courage and strength."
"When I trust and rely upon God, I trust infinite God rather than my fininte self."

Another thing that helped me is reminding myself that my life is no longer my business and that my recovery is no longer my business. I am no longer running the show; God is my Director. That became the new order of things with my decision in Step Three.

Anything God would do and change in my life and within me is better than what my life was before. I was making an absolute mess of things. I am loved and cared for by my Higher Power. My God is pure goodness. I am safe in whatever change He brings.
Susan

[DayTrader]

Bill used terms like "rocketed into the 4th dimension," "know a NEW freedom and a NEW hope," and a bunch of other similar promises (especially after steps 2, 9, and 10).

The human ego, however......doesn't always want to let go of what's familiar to us - OUR will and OUR way of doing things. I suppose it's quite natural to have doubts about the concept of letting God be the director and us just being the agent. I've spent a lot of time reflecting on "God is everything or He's nothing.....what is our choice to be?" Of course, I say "everything" but, upon closer examination, my actions don't really support that decision in ALL areas.

I would suppose the writer was referring to his continued spiritual growth - how we need to continue to look for new resentments, new areas where we're the boss and God isn't, and new areas where we can perform God's works here on earth.... and how where he was at that moment was nice......but he needed to continue to grow spiritually.

[jhay]

No one has any advice or thoughts on my reply?

[CarolD]

Jay..
I did not reply because I have no expereince about this.
I welcomed the changes early on and still do

I certainly hope you will soon find peace and recovery...

[Mark75]

Originally Posted by jhay

I was scared of being a "good person" and felt like I was going against everything that was me.

Hi... I'll try

I know exactly what you are feeling... My approach was contained in this very step... the third step. I turn my will and life over to the care of God... It's not up to me, it's up to Him.

When I get nervous about who or what I am becoming, I try to step aside and let Him do what he will. And I try not to worry about it... One day at a time, right? How am I TODAY?

Besides, my higher power has my back and whatever happens will be for the best, and, I'll probably like who I become.

Mark

Like your avatar, cool movie... talk about good vs bad, huh? Tyler and all... self will riot run wild!

[keithj]

jhay,
What does Step 6 say? The way I became entirely ready (or at least as ready as I could be at the time) was to thoroughly (or at least as thoroughly as I could at the time) take the preceding 5 Steps.

When I got to that place of being entirely ready, things I didn't want previously, changes I didn't welcome previously, all seemed like the right direction. A little work was required to get there.

Have you thoroughly done the first 5 Steps?

[BadCompany]

Originally Posted by jhay

I realized how much I was changing. It didn't feel right or genuine, I was scared of being a "good person" and felt like I was going against everything that was me.

Wow! This was me. I had such a hostile relationship with the world that I felt I had to be on guard and watchful at all times. I would often get them before they got me. The problem, I discovered later, was that I was often getting them with little or no provocation at all. It was just my fears that were motivating my actions. I was most often the one putting the ball in motion and bringing hostility into my life.

[DayTrader]

Originally Posted by jhay

This all makes sense to me, but what if you are afraid of the change? I made it almost 7 months and freaked out when I realized how much I was changing. It didn't feel right or genuine, I was scared of being a "good person" and felt like I was going against everything that was me. I went back out for some time, and of course that wasn't the solution either.

Sometimes I welcome change BIG TIME.....other times, I just instinctively throw the brakes one.....and still other times I'm so afraid that I just freeze - afraid to do ANYTHING.

I was taught early on that if/when I'm having a problem with any step.....the problem isn't in the step I'm on but in problems with my FIRST step (heh...betcha thought I was going to say the previous step ). When it REALLY sinks in that I'm powerless over alcohol....and that my life (as run by me and my decision making) is unmanageable, it's a whole lot easier to accept change. My options are slim.....alcoholic death which results from me doing what I think I should do.....or change, recovery and being God's agent....not trying to be the director. (I like a "soldier / general" or even a "player / coach" analogy myself).

The main reason recovery threw me for such a loop early on was that I started to see all the little games I constantly played. I started to see, through a LOT of inventory work, how manipulative I'd been, what I liar I was, how controlling I was, what an abuser I was, how full of $hit I was, etc etc etc. (and don't misunderstand, I used "was" because I'm talking about the revelations I had - past tense.... many many of those things are still in action TODAY.....but I've accepted some change and have found some new tools to deal with them better...... and, thankfully, some have even been taken away all-together). I also started to see the "operations manual" that I'd been living my life under.....and the thought of scrapping the whole thing freaked me out too. Then again I also had to realize where THAT manual took me. To think I'd figure it out better "this time" using that same old book was just plain nuts.

I did a LOT of praying.....praying for the fear to leave & sometimes it did....a lot of the times it didn't go anywhere though. So, in those times it didn't go anywhere what do ya do? Stay the same and go back to alcoholic death or.....ugh.....do "it" (change, in your example) anyway....accept the change in spite of being scared to death. Not great alternatives but "afraid of dying" seemed slightly better than "dying outright" so, many many of those times....I just had to pray my a$$ off for the strength to go through the fear and accept the change.

The cool part is that even though I felt TOOOOOOTALLY alone.....I wasn't. At the time though, it sure feels like I'm alone (some of us would say that's the devil trying to influence you....to scare you into thinking there is no God and/or that He's not going to help you). The "footprints" prayer, yanno....the one with the footprints in the sand on the beach, comes to mind a lot now when I'm in one of those dark spots where I'm freaking out, scared to death, and feeling alone and helpless.

One of the "one liners" also helps me in times like these: "Everything God has planned out for you is better than ANYthing I can come up with on my own." If the God of MY understanding knows everything, can do anything, and can solve ALL problems......doesn't it make sense that I trust that God more than me and my best judgement? ......heh, early on though, I settled on a rather limited God. It was during times like the one you described Jhay, that I had to re-tool my personal version of God.

[scaredykat]

Originally Posted by jhay

This all makes sense to me, but what if you are afraid of the change? I made it almost 7 months and freaked out when I realized how much I was changing. It didn't feel right or genuine, I was scared of being a "good person" and felt like I was going against everything that was me. I went back out for some time, and of course that wasn't the solution either.

Hi jhay. I can relate. Change is very scary. But what worked for me and still works for me is remembering where my drinking took me. I don't want to go back there. Just living one day at a time helps too. Don't worry about yesterday because it's already gone. And don't worry about tomorrow because it isn't here yet.

Also did you every think that change can be good? Our old way and behavior didn't work and that's why we have to change.

[Tommyh]

when I hit bottom,I was sick and tired of drinking and everything,including me and my screwed up life
darn right,I welcomed changes

when you feel as sick of you as I did of me,you will welcome some changes or stay sick