Discussion and Sharing Welcomed!

[CarolD]

Came to believe that a Power greater than ourselves could restore us to sanity.

[mikel60]

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Step 2 - AA
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Hi all,

When I first came to AA and I had to share on the second step, I would boldly declare,"My name is Mike, I'm an alcoholic, and I am not now, nor have I ever been insane." This despite years of performing such sane acts as smashing mailboxes with sledgehammers on a Sunday afternoon while singing The Fields of Athenrey.

I truly believed that my alcoholic behavior was not insanity. I thought it was normal to leave work on payday, fully resolved to not drink, and stop in a bar to duck the rain. This despite the fact that the hardware store next to the bar sold umbrellas. Four days, twenty-odd bars, three crackhouses, and 900 dollars later I would come to, wondering how I was going to survive on .37 cents for two weeks. I did this over and over. Usually just a variation on the same theme. But I was sane. Right.

It took a while. Gradually I came to see that where alcohol was involved, I was indeed insane. I needed something to help me out of it. Gradually I also began to believe in the existence of God - certainly a power greater than myself. My belief did not come easily. The spiritual awakening I had developed over time, and was then hastened by a near death experience sober. I got through it, saw my life getting better, and realized that God, for me, was the key.

My higher power could restore me to a normal way of life and thinking. It was happening in my life and in the lives of everyone I associated with at that time. How could I doubt it?

Thoughts anyone?

[scootinbabe]

hi there! i am still on this step. mike, i don't know if this helps but i'm beginning to see that some of my "insanity" doesn't even need to involve alcohol. at least, not yet. but some of my behaviors seem to be led by my "disease" which leads me to escape or procrastinate or whatever-coping-mechanism

my reality seems to be that i know and believe in a higher power. BUT, i still have trouble asking for help and still have trouble relinquishing control. i really need to get the ME out of most of what i do--and allow hp's will not mine be done.

you know, it's like i knew i was insane when i was drinking. i knew i was out of control. and much of what i perceived as my insanity hten has now seemingly gotten under control. now it's things that i considered to be reality/normal to me that i'm beginning to recognize as insanity. that's what's so crazy!

i don't know if i'm making sense. i thought i was past this step and on to the 4th but i can see now--and my sponsor awakened me to ;-)--the fact that there is still insanity in my life that needs to be addressed. i am not running to alcohol but i am still running to work, or tasks, or projects, etc. to keep me away from myself.

dear God, help me.

thanks for listening!

[dgillz]

Scootinbabe,

Your quote:
"I still have trouble asking for help and still have trouble relinquishing control".

Hit me. I thought of step 1. I was never IN control, Alcohol was. I am hopeful this line of thinking will help you.

[scootinbabe]

yep. that's it. it's the control thing. my deal is that the alcohol is not actively in control, but what i think is alcoholic thinking is still lingering and trying to take control.

i guess that no matter if i have alcohol in me or not, i still have this disease and its patterns of behavior that get me into trouble. i don't at all feel the need to drink and never ever want to slip now that i've finally reached out to real people in addition to my hp (who i call God). but my mind still gets me into trouble.

...it's painful. well, let's not think about that now... i used to take a drink when life was painful. now, i bury myself in something busy--whether its my work or a project or an event--but the skinny is that i retreat rather than work my way through the pain. i guess this is really more part of step 3. but this is what i'm trying to work, get nailed down, and practice.

thanks for the ear and the advice!

[mandyw]

How can you believe this if you aren't sure you'll ever be restored to the sanity you long for. I don't consider myself "insane" but the drama and the game you get wrapped up in with using is definetly insane. Any tips on this step?

[scootinbabe]

bear with me because i'm so new to all this...

other more experienced aa'ers have pointed out to me that if i am using "something" to cope by keeping me from loneliness or anger or sadness, i'm still following the pattern of alcoholic behavior. i.e., i may not be drinking, but i am losing myself in other ways. Here are a few ways that i see myself doing this: isolating myself or keeping so busy that i don't have time to think, or procrastinating from doing an unpleasant task, or stayng on the computer instead of interacting with my family.

i guess that it is more acceptable to use other ways of coping when you are first kicking the stuff (i spent hours reading, going to meetings, going online), but now it's time that i face my life head-on and responsibly. and it's important to learn the right ways of doing it now that i'm sober.

the good thing is that most of the time i do feel able and do feel sane. but i do find myself doing things that undermine my progress--and many of those patterns of behavior i learned over time. when i finally recognize that i'm doing that, i can see that i am still living on old behaviors now that i'm sober. (that's what these long-timers i know call "insanity") i really have to learn new ways of living and new rhythms that lead me in the right direction. i guess i should say i have to seek guidance on learning new ways...darn, it's that control thing again... i keep saying "I" when it's not up to me. it's up to God and i need to ask him for help and direction and guides.

believe me, i can give my life drama and games even if i'm not using. i'm really good at creating chaos...that's what happens when my will, not God's is done.

again, i don't know if i'm on the right track here--this also is more step 3 i think? but it's what i'm working on...

[Leslie1210]

I remember the first time I felt this magical letting go. It seemed like I was on a pink cloud..really...everything seemed "pink" like a sunrise. As I grew in my recovery this experience happened to me sometimes without my asking for it and I was never quite sure if I was actually experiencing a power greater than myself. I was but it took awhile to believe it. Now, if I doubt this, I can go back to my list of these experiences and take a deep breath and let go some more.
Leslie

[scootinbabe]

i had it too. my pink cloud lasted until early mid-october probably a little after my 60 day mark. then i realized how much work i had to do. the pink cloud was like the first phases of love. now it's like marriage! (lol! rotflmao at my own joke! but it's true, i swear)

[CarolD]

“Restored to Sanity”

To me, that means literally.

Once my brain was clear of alcohol
no more depression or suicide attempts
or stays in mental hospitals.

God and AA allowed me to find recovery
and ergo...restored my mind.

Thanks for letting me share

[mikel60]

hi all,
mandy, the key for me was going to lots of meetings in which i heard tons of people share how their lives had changed. also, as i went to these meetings and time passed, my life started to become normal. i was no longer caught up in the madness that my constant alcohol use caused. i could no longer accept the crazy stuff that for years i believed was normal. i was being restored to sanity by the poweful force of love and caring provided by my aa home group. that certainly was a power greater than myself.
sorry for the lower case typing i'm holding my five week old son as i try to type this. sober is better.
mike

[chicago]

it never dawned on me that my behavior was insane. sure i was sleeping on hardwood floors for 3 months because i spent all my money (including food money) on drugs. sure i was completely unemployable and wondered around walgreens stealing food and begging people for cigarettes.

it wasnt until i got to AA that i realized i was totally insane and that no single human had the power to restore me to sanity.

[NoelleR]

Hey Mandy ----

You said, 1) "How can you believe this if you aren't sure you'll ever be restored to the sanity you long for." 2) "I don't consider myself "insane" but the drama and the game you get wrapped up in with using is definetly insane." and 3) "Any tips on this step?"

OK, let's start with #2 -- I realized my 'insanity' through working on Step-1, with all my unmanageability and 'crazy' life..... lol only an insane person would be involved with all the insane drama etc. with using.....therefore I must be insane (at least by some definition of that word.

Now to #1 --- please reread the step----'came to believe' ..... doesn't mean you start out believing you may be restored....just that you 'come to believe' it.....like the whole program of recovery; it's a process ..... (o:

And, as for #3 --- I guess it's just the whole process of this step for me....coming to believe that it just might be possible that there was a power great than I was at the time that could restore me to some semblance of sanity..... (o: gosh, how simple was that.....I was ready for Step-3.!

NoelleR
DOS: 6/23/86

[dgillz]

I have never had a problem with this concept, but I would like to share a conversation 3 of us had after a meeting last week, boiled down to a few paragraphs:

If you have a problem with the concept of a Higher Power, the alternative is that YOU are the highest, or at least tied with other people for the highest power there is. That is a pretty arrogant stance to take.

Now this does not mean you have to have spoken to a burning bush like Moses or see the proverbial light on the road to Damascus, or even go to a religious service or for that matter even believe in God.

In my case, an AAer with 20 years of sobriety is surely a power greater than myself (with only a few weeks of sobriety). If you believe someone like this 20 year AAer and/or the group itself can help you achieve sobriety and restore you to sanity, you have found your Higher Power.

Thanks for letting me share.

[NoelleR]

Hey dgillz ---

Two things you said I think will be a good lead-in to what/who I used for an HP, as an atheist in this pgm....your wrote:

"If you have a problem with the concept of a Higher Power, the alternative is that YOU are the highest, or at least tied with other people for the highest power there is. That is a pretty arrogant stance to take." (perhaps arrogance, but let's wait till I can tie these two together.....)

you also wrote:

"In my case, an AAer with 20 years of sobriety is surely a power greater than myself (with only a few weeks of sobriety). If you believe someone like this 20 year AAer and/or the group itself can help you achieve sobriety and restore you to sanity, you have found your Higher Power." (absolutely and perfectly logical.... (o: )

Now ---- to tie them together.....yes, those examples you gave would work for HP's, but what I did was take it one step further.....yes (although not in arrogance) I use me.....the me I would be tomorrow as long as I didn't pick up today.....and on and on ad-infinitum.......and with every day that I did not pick up my sanity was slowly restored (wooooohooooo)....now, this could be considered arrogance, even by me, if I was thinking that I could do this, but nobody elso could.....however, I believe all could do this, and I know a few who have..and..it worked for them, and has worked for me for 20+ years..... (o:

Even as a believer (Christian, give it any name you want.... (o: ), I believe that we are all created in the image and likeness of God, and for me this means that we all have his characteristics ie: power, perfection, wholeness, completeness....we just sometimes need to be reminded..... (o:

I hope this hasn't offended anyone..... (o:

Peace-out Y'all,
NoelleR
DOS: 6/23/86

[Tazman53]

Hi, my name is Martin and I am a recovering alcoholic.

Came to believe that a Power greater than ourselves could restore us to sanity.

On this one I have no problem acknowledging that I was insane, heck any one who put drinking on the same level as their wife and children has to be crazy, any one who hunts and drinks at the same time is insane. Drinking and driving and driving drunk is insane, especially when on occasion I would do it with the kids in the truck!

Nope................ no doubt in this old mans eyes I was insane, trust me after 40 years of drinking if I told of every bit of the things I have done that were insane no one would want to read it all.

I know that being as insane as I was that it was going to take a HP then me to restore me to sanity. My HP is God, I knew he was more then capable to restore my sanity as long as I gave my will over to him. I came to know I was insane and I also came to know that God, my HP was the one that could restore it.

Surrendering my will over to God, God has given me the power to not need a drink, for that I am for ever grateful. Everything I have today I have only God to thank for, I have done nothing more then tried as hard as I can to do his will.

[Kellye C]

I have a few thoughts on this I'd like to share. For those who struggle with the God concept I have heard many in the rooms share that especially in the beginning their god was the group (GOD - group of drunks). Surely these people who had found a way out of the bottle under seemingly hopeless conditions were a higher power than one alcoholic. This seemed to work for quite a few.

I think although I had a concept of God coming into the rooms that I still used the group as a higher power in the beginning. It was from going to meetings and listening to these people's stories and seeing how their lives had changed that I began to believe that MAYBE, just MAYBE, this could work for me too. Maybe I COULD get free of this demon alcohol if they could do it. It was the first seed of hope that was planted in this alcoholic's heart.

As I said I already had a God in my life so I didn't struggle with that, however, where I struggled was I felt that although I believed he was more than capable of restoring me to sanity, I wasn't as sure that he WOULD. I felt like a worthless piece of crap and why would he want to waste time on me? I was always an all or nothing type of person. If I was going to church then I tried to be a saint. I am sure you can figure out that this didn't work. When I messed up I would then beat the hell out of myself and tell myself how worthless I was and why bother trying. Then I would quit going to church and say to heck with it. I felt like I was the ultimate sinner sitting in a room full of saints and that I was never going to get "it" that I was too bad. I now see the insanity of this line of thinking but I didn't at the time.

I had to reformulate my whole concept of God into one who wasn't a punishing God waiting to strike me down with a lightning bolt everytime I messed up and ready to just send me to hell. Through the program and hearing others share my concept today is that of a father figure. One who loves me no matter what, wants what is best for me but also loves me enough to allow me to reap the consequences of my actions when I try to take back control. This won't work for everyone but it has worked for me and that is what matters. I had serious abandonment issues with my own dad so this has been healing on several planes for me.

Finally, the whole insanity things was offensive to me in the beginning. Yeah, I had an addiction to alcohol. Yeah, I went to GREAT lengths to drink and avoid suffering the consequences that went along with it. Yeah, I pushed family and friends to the side, did unspeakable things in the context of relationships, drove drunk and went to work drunk. But I wasn't INSANE!!!!

Then I heard the AA definition of insanity which is doing the same thing over and over again expecting different results. Now THAT I could understand and see in myself and using that definition I could see that my thinking and behavior had been insane. I also now had a goal to work towards. Doing things differently. I can still go into "insane mode" when I get caught up in self-will trying to dominate and control situations that are not mine to control or into warped ways of thinking. When I do this, I get the same old results. Fortunately I then have step 3 where I can turn everything back over to my HP and stop the insanity.

I hope this made sense!

Hugs,
Kellye

[Tazman53]

Thanks Kelly that made great sense to me.

[collinsmi]

Lot of fun semantics in the wording of this step! A power greater than myself..... Had no trouble believing in that, in them. Seemed like I was surrounded with powers greater than myself. Wanted to find some powers less than myself, then I could get things done! Not sure either that my insanity started with my drinking. Almost as far back as I can remember, long before I took my first drink, I felt I was different than everyone else. Kind of like on the outside looking in. It was almost as if they all knew something or had something I didn't, but I felt like if I got that one thing, I'd wind up near the top of the heap.

THe instructions I received for this step (and what I did), was first to read the chapter "we agnostics". Every day for a week. Then, on pages 45-46, 10 statements to turn into questions about myself and write on; 1) we have shared his honest doubt and prejudice........... 10) And who could comprehend a Supreme Being anyhow?

I ended up writing about my own religious beliefs (which by that point were already beginning to change). They had seemed to stop developing somewhere around the time I was 10 or 11, when the idea of God began to seem less attractive. What was there was the typical (for us alcoholics) idea of an old angry bearded guy sitting in a big chair in the clouds. Punishment was dispensed regularly, and you'd better toe the line if you expected to avoid trouble. As I grew older, I began to punch holes in this idea, but my motivation was not that I wanted a better understanding of God, but rather that I wanted to be an atheist (less checks on my behavior). I began to see flaws in organized religion (hypocrisy, violence, etc) because I wanted to look down on it to feel good about my atheism. All went well most of the time, but there was the occasional situation where I would become a foxhole believer. So some desparate prayers then guilt and rationalization once the storm passed.

Once my motivation changed, I found I could believe in a different kind of God, and begin to replace the nonsense I had written about. That first step helped supply the motivation! I could see the train wreck of my life and was willing to do things differently if it meant things would improve. Lots of talks with my sponsor about the nature oof God at this time too. Didn't accept (and was told I didnt have to) his ideas, but this also helped me develop better ideas about God.

[GlassPrisoner]

This step was a revelation for me.

All of my life, I was a dynamo. My will propelled myself and others around me to success. I had a house, wife & kids, nice car, etc. The company I worked for grew by leaps and bounds, due in large part to my contributions.

When I realized I had a problem with alcohol, and wanted to quit, I simply thought I would exert my self will. It always worked before......Boy was I wrong.

A power greater than myself is the only thing I've found that can restore me to sanity.

[utopia]

I came, I came to, I came to believe. I remind myself of the power. I find that the power is within me and all around me and that it is my actions and willingness that meet this energy this power that I choose to call the Lord, God, the Universe most of the time. It seems to be in relinquishing all control to the universe I have found all the power within myself is there when I let it go. Mind-tripping but i hope you get what i mean?

[Day by Day]

Yeah... I get "it" Utopia!

I grew up thinking that "...seeing is believing".....

I'm new to this - been sober for 4 months and I initially struggled with the HP stuff, but recently the MORE I BELIEVE, THE MORE I SEE..... and the clarity is improving every day.

[jimhere]

The drama is not the insanity.

Alcoholic insanity happens before the drink, stone cold sober. It is taking a drink having full knowledge of what happens when you drink.

Originally Posted by mandyw

How can you believe this if you aren't sure you'll ever be restored to the sanity you long for. I don't consider myself "insane" but the drama and the game you get wrapped up in with using is definetly insane. Any tips on this step?

[BrandiK]

Originally Posted by jimhere

Alcoholic insanity happens before the drink, stone cold sober. It is taking a drink having full knowledge of what happens when you drink.

I think I am going to write this out and carry it around with me. Thank you.

[TimmyO]

What gives?

I wrestled with this step almost as much as step 3.

I ended up working it in reverse. I had to be convinced that there was insanity in my life. I could not see ANY insanity in my life (mainly due to the severe cranial-rectal inversion that had taken place many years before!). I didn't see any need for any kind of "restoration". After all, I hadn't had a drink in two months! (But I was known for being a little "tightly wound" by this point!)

Luckily for me, the same cranky old timer whom I mentioned in the first step thread hit me between the eyes again. This time with a dictionary! And not only that but he made ME look up the definition of sanity. The nerve of him! But here's what I found:

sanity: soundness of judgement or reason

After reading that, he then hit me with the zinger: "Tim, we're not talking "Norman Bates" nuts here or you're hearing voices from the test patterns on the tv. We're talking about exercising good judgement. Do you really think you exercised good judgement when it came time to have your first cocktail?"

So that got me thinking about it in a different light and I honestly looked at my drinking and found that I was not in fact exercising good judgement and in most case not exercising ANY kind of judgement at all. Despite every negative consequence that was a result of my drinking (and there were a lot of those!) and despite KNOWING that I never really controlled it, I still often thought, "this time it will be different".

Certainly not sound reasoning or sound judgement, so that took care of the insanity part. Now came the real kicker, the "God thing".

A different but equally cranky old timer took me aside after one of my rantings on the "God thing" (I just noticed, I must have really irritated a lot of old timers!! - see my signature line!) and explained it to me something like this:

He said, "Kid, do you see that there are some people here at this meeting that have been sober for quite a while?"

I replied, "Yes."

He went on, "Do most of them seem reasonably happy?"

"Yes"

"Can you believe that there is some kind of power that is helping them out? Doesn't need a name or a label. Just that there's something here that they all seem to share?"

"Yes"

"Do they seem to be doing better than you?"

"Yes"

He smiled (for the first time in 25 years I think!) and said, "Congratulations, you have come to believe in a Power greater than yourself."

Then he finished me with, "Do you think that if you did what they did you might be able to tap into it too?"

Seeing as how I knew I was far more intellectually advanced than all these guys, I figured I must be a shoo-in! (arrogance is/was one of my defects of character!)

"Absolutely, if they can do it so can I!"

The guy smiled again and said I was well on my way and we have become fast friends over these almost five years! That guy more than anyone probably saved my life.

So step 2 in Tim's nutshell: I came to believe that there was something here (didn't know what) that could help me to get rid of the insane thought that I could somehow drink again with impugnity.

Once again thanks for reading my 2 cents worth here. Pretty soon someone will stop feeding me pennies, but until then...

I'll keep coming back. It's worked this long so I'll keep working.

Thanks again,

Tim