Discussion and Sharing Welcomed! - Page 2 - SoberRecovery : Alcoholism Drug Addiction Help and Information

Debaucher · 02-28-2007, 02:29 PM

I am working on this step... right now... for me I can buy that if I can't do it... something greater than me could... but I have to ACCEPT that I am insane...

My sponser says insanity is like a person who is burned by the flame... and keeps sticking there hand in the fire to see if it will burn them...

Ouch that hurts...

hm... let me try that again... ouch...
hm... let me try that again... ouch...
hm... let me try that again... ouch...
hm... let me try that again... ouch...

hmmm... maybe if I drink O'douls every other beer. OUCH
hmmm... maybe if I drink vodka I will moderate... OUCH OUCH OUCH
hmmm... Maybe if I .... etc...
hmmm... this time I will have more will power to just have 1 or 2 drinks... OUCH

etc...

when he put it that way... I had to stop and think... how many times had I told myself I wasn't going to drink but did... or said I would only have one or 2... which turned into 8 or more... how many times had I agreed to be designated driver intending to only have a beer or two when we first get there then water the rest of the night and ended up being the drunkest one when it was time to leave...

How many times had I vowed I would never drink and drive again... and then the next time be pirate driving again (where you cover one eye like a pirate patch so you can tell which double yellow line you need to stay left of)...

How insane it is that you have a name for driving with one eye closed and you buddies know what it is when you use your made up term...

AND FINALLY what sane person passes out drunk... trying to read there kid a bed time story...

was I insane... um... when I drank YES... and now I have to work on truly believing a higher power can restore me to sanity...

scootinbabe · 03-18-2007, 11:46 AM

hmmm....maybe i'll be okay if i don't go to meetings. (After all, i'm doing so well...)

hmmmmm...i'm so tired, i think i'll sleep in.

hmmmm...i'm so busy, i don't have time to go to gym...

i have soooooo many behaviors to change it's crazy-making. but i pray for willingness. willingness to do the right thing. willingness to be capable of being willing.

lanie67 · 04-13-2007, 08:27 PM

[ I can still go into "insane mode" when I get caught up in self-will trying to dominate and control situations that are not mine to control or into warped ways of thinking. When I do this, I get the same old results. Fortunately I then have step 3 where I can turn everything back over to my HP and stop the insanity.

I hope this made sense!

Hugs,
Kellye[/QUOTE]

Thanks Kellye, that really resonated with me, that is exactly where I am at, not with alcohol but with other behaviors. I have recently been throught some very painful stuff, and the sheer pain of it is allowing hp to restore me to sanity. I became friends with some people very different from those whom I would normally be drawn to; honestly I just fell into it. Now I find myself in the pain of having been betrayed and I am having to step back and look at myself in every part of the process and honestly aprise where I went wrong. I just was not paying attention, not listenin to my gut at all like I should have been; it's like I believed I was invincible and nothing could hurt me. Boy did I learn the hard way. This is where I am at in the steps now, having gone through step two and having to turn it all back over to a higher power, also having to make a promise to myself to PAY ATTENTION to what is going on around me and who I let into my life.

lanie67 · 04-21-2007, 03:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scootinbabe

hmmm....maybe i'll be okay if i don't go to meetings. (After all, i'm doing so well...)

hmmmmm...i'm so tired, i think i'll sleep in.

hmmmm...i'm so busy, i don't have time to go to gym...

i have soooooo many behaviors to change it's crazy-making. but i pray for willingness. willingness to do the right thing. willingness to be capable of being willing.

Thanks for reminding me that I can pray for things like willingness that I do not have. I forget that if I am not 'there' I can pray for hp to help me get there. I don't know how many times I have forgotten that concept over the course of my time sober but it has been multitudes. I mean, it's like if I am not 100% where I need to be at the moment I am SOL and need to just give up and go do some self- or other-destructive behavior...thanks for sharing that and reminding me hp can help get me where I need to be.

2ala2 · 06-08-2007, 08:43 AM

It's great when I do thing in a diffirent way other than may way...

**Peter** · 06-08-2007, 10:26 AM

If I wanna do it "my way" I go to Burger King...

Grizzled · 06-29-2007, 09:19 PM

This was fairly easy for me to reconcile. I had nowhere else to go to relieve my insanity. So, in my mind, a Higher Power batter damn well restore my sanity as I realized that no human power was capable of doing it for me.

That didn't leave me with a lot of options.

It was a leap of faith well worth the taking.

jimhere · 06-30-2007, 12:17 AM

I see it posted here on this thread that AA's definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over expecting different results. Not so. The Big Book says that it is a lack of proportion (in thinking) and of the ability to think straight.

The form of insanity being refrerred to is in regards to alcohol-the peculiar mental twist that, despite all the evidence to the contrary, says "this time it will be different." What is the root of this malady? Quite simply, the root of our trouble is selfishness and self-centeredness. Literally being driven (not choosing) by fear, self-delusion, self-seeking, self pity, etc. back to a drink. Resentment being the number one offender because it seperates me from you & from God. When harbouring such feelings I am shut off from the sunlight of spirit and I become insane and I drink. Seperation=insanity. Shutoff from God, there is no choice but to drink.

I don't mistake immaturity or foolish mistakes for insanity. I don't mistake the busy-ness of life for insanity. I don't mistake grief, depression, etc. for insanity. Insanity for an alcoholic happens when he/she takes drink, having full knowledge of themselves as an alcoholic.
Jim

NOMOMERLOTMAMMA · 07-07-2007, 08:42 PM

Ah. So, my worrying about various situations where I would be tempted to drink, is in effect, not believing in something more powerful than myself?

sunshine321 · 07-11-2007, 12:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimhere

The form of insanity being refrerred to is in regards to alcohol-the peculiar mental twist that, despite all the evidence to the contrary, says "this time it will be different." What is the root of this malady? Quite simply, the root of our trouble is selfishness and self-centeredness. Literally being driven (not choosing) by fear, self-delusion, self-seeking, self pity, etc. back to a drink. Resentment being the number one offender because it seperates me from you & from God. When harbouring such feelings I am shut off from the sunlight of spirit and I become insane and I drink. Seperation=insanity. Shutoff from God, there is no choice but to drink. Jim

This particular section of your reply really struck a chord. I am not a user but living with an active A and it helps me to understand the problem and possibly have a little more sympathy and kindness toward him. Maybe. I struggle with this every day because although I know he is suffering his own hell trying to decide what help he is going to get, or if he even needs to get any (although I suspect he knows he can't do this on his own) our family and especially me are suffering too and at his hands. It is his decision to get help or not. It is my decision to live with him for now while working Al-Anon with hope that he will decide to get help before I am the one who becomes insane or decides I can't do this anymore. I hope this program will help me too. Sometimes I think I am the one who is insane for subjecting myself to this abuse.

jenny

Cocoon · 04-10-2008, 10:31 AM

Yes, my definition of insanity WAS doing the samething over and over expecting a different result but NOW it is picking up that first drink knowing full well what it does to me. Excercising good judgement. I have not been doing this. I am insane. I cannot do this alone. I have not been to a f2f meeting. I am not very comfortable with this but I do believe the 12 Steps are my way to go. I believe that I have to give my HP (God) will over my life because I am insane. Proverbs 26:11 As a dog returns to its vomit, so a fool repeats his folly. When do you know to go on to Step 3???? I believe in my HP. Can I do this with on-line meetings? Am I posting in the right area? Just some questions????

ananda · 04-10-2008, 11:24 AM

By the time I got sober, I was dealing with the Physical part of alchoholism....needed medical supervision...was sooooo sick and worse when I tried to not drink (which wasn't often in the end) I drank to keep from the sickness that can happen with detox as much as all the rest.

But prior to my picking up a drink in 2000, I suffered from the insanity of this disease. I really thought that since I had worked through so many "outside issues" that I thought were part of why I drankl, that I might not be an alchoholic. That if I drank...this time would be different. It didn't take long to find out that wasn't so, but took a lot of years and medical detox to get back.

Yes, I do have other "insanities" by many definitions, but sometimes those things have more to do with being a human being I think.

sugErspun · 04-10-2008, 11:39 AM

For me, the insanity proceeds the first drink.

The book actually describes it as 'lack of proportion and the ability to think straight'
It also discusses mental blank spots - where there is no human ability to rationalize oneself away from the first drink.

No mental defense - when there is every reason in the world to need one. This is the insanity.

Can't be fixed by thought - so I have to rely on something more powerful than myself to get me through those times.

Intuitive thoughts and actions
Automatically making the 'right' decision
A world that makes sense

Upon a return to sanity (decsribed in the text during directions for tenth step practice) - we stop fighting alcohol, to me - that means the problem (body cant take it, mind won't leave it alone) has been removed.

You ask about how to take the third step. My suggestion is to get a sponsor who is familiar with the book, recovered and can walk you through this. The third step suggestions in the book say that it should be taken with someone, rather than alone (a witness if you will)

The second step is nothing more than a willingness to believe that there is something more than your rational mind that can fix you. A power greater than ourselves - it's a feeling (experience) more than it is knowledge (as is the case with all of the twelve steps)

No reason I can think of to do it alone.

I hear there are meetings somewhere in Illinois. You can meet someone there.

ian_g · 04-10-2008, 06:37 PM

Insanity is clearly defined in the BB. It says it is the thought that precedes the first drink.

DaveBB164 · 03-03-2009, 12:39 PM

First of all I had to understand insanity and the insanity is the subtle insanity that precedes the first drink, that is the insanity I came to believe I would be restored from,

the last drink I had the thought I got was "just have a couple it will be different this time" that was the subtle insanity that preceded my first drink, without that the allergy would be moot.

02-28-2007, 02:29 PM	#26 (permalink)
Debaucher Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Cleveland Ohio Posts: 274	I am working on this step... right now... for me I can buy that if I can't do it... something greater than me could... but I have to ACCEPT that I am insane... My sponser says insanity is like a person who is burned by the flame... and keeps sticking there hand in the fire to see if it will burn them... Ouch that hurts... hm... let me try that again... ouch... hm... let me try that again... ouch... hm... let me try that again... ouch... hm... let me try that again... ouch... hmmm... maybe if I drink O'douls every other beer. OUCH hmmm... maybe if I drink vodka I will moderate... OUCH OUCH OUCH hmmm... Maybe if I .... etc... hmmm... this time I will have more will power to just have 1 or 2 drinks... OUCH etc... when he put it that way... I had to stop and think... how many times had I told myself I wasn't going to drink but did... or said I would only have one or 2... which turned into 8 or more... how many times had I agreed to be designated driver intending to only have a beer or two when we first get there then water the rest of the night and ended up being the drunkest one when it was time to leave... How many times had I vowed I would never drink and drive again... and then the next time be pirate driving again (where you cover one eye like a pirate patch so you can tell which double yellow line you need to stay left of)... How insane it is that you have a name for driving with one eye closed and you buddies know what it is when you use your made up term... AND FINALLY what sane person passes out drunk... trying to read there kid a bed time story... was I insane... um... when I drank YES... and now I have to work on truly believing a higher power can restore me to sanity... __________________ --- I pray that I don't forget what it was like to be newly sober. ---

06-29-2007, 09:19 PM	#32 (permalink)
Grizzled Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: New Hanover, PA Posts: 74	This was fairly easy for me to reconcile. I had nowhere else to go to relieve my insanity. So, in my mind, a Higher Power batter damn well restore my sanity as I realized that no human power was capable of doing it for me. That didn't leave me with a lot of options. It was a leap of faith well worth the taking. __________________ Recovery Date: October 5, 2006.

07-07-2007, 08:42 PM	#34 (permalink)
NOMOMERLOTMAMMA No more merlot, more mamma Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Hills, Ct Posts: 2,131 Blog Entries: 36	Lightbulb moment Ah. So, my worrying about various situations where I would be tempted to drink, is in effect, not believing in something more powerful than myself?

04-10-2008, 11:39 AM	#38 (permalink)
sugErspun Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 1,694	For me, the insanity proceeds the first drink. The book actually describes it as 'lack of proportion and the ability to think straight' It also discusses mental blank spots - where there is no human ability to rationalize oneself away from the first drink. No mental defense - when there is every reason in the world to need one. This is the insanity. Can't be fixed by thought - so I have to rely on something more powerful than myself to get me through those times. Intuitive thoughts and actions Automatically making the 'right' decision A world that makes sense Upon a return to sanity (decsribed in the text during directions for tenth step practice) - we stop fighting alcohol, to me - that means the problem (body cant take it, mind won't leave it alone) has been removed. You ask about how to take the third step. My suggestion is to get a sponsor who is familiar with the book, recovered and can walk you through this. The third step suggestions in the book say that it should be taken with someone, rather than alone (a witness if you will) The second step is nothing more than a willingness to believe that there is something more than your rational mind that can fix you. A power greater than ourselves - it's a feeling (experience) more than it is knowledge (as is the case with all of the twelve steps) No reason I can think of to do it alone. I hear there are meetings somewhere in Illinois. You can meet someone there. __________________ "Life can only be understood backwards; but it must be lived forwards." - Soren Kierkegaard

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03-18-2007, 11:46 AM	#27 (permalink)
scootinbabe Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: road to recovery Posts: 1,687 Blog Entries: 5	hmmm....maybe i'll be okay if i don't go to meetings. (After all, i'm doing so well...) hmmmmm...i'm so tired, i think i'll sleep in. hmmmm...i'm so busy, i don't have time to go to gym... i have soooooo many behaviors to change it's crazy-making. but i pray for willingness. willingness to do the right thing. willingness to be capable of being willing.

04-13-2007, 08:27 PM	#28 (permalink)
lanie67 Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: south east Posts: 216	[ I can still go into "insane mode" when I get caught up in self-will trying to dominate and control situations that are not mine to control or into warped ways of thinking. When I do this, I get the same old results. Fortunately I then have step 3 where I can turn everything back over to my HP and stop the insanity. I hope this made sense! Hugs, Kellye[/QUOTE] Thanks Kellye, that really resonated with me, that is exactly where I am at, not with alcohol but with other behaviors. I have recently been throught some very painful stuff, and the sheer pain of it is allowing hp to restore me to sanity. I became friends with some people very different from those whom I would normally be drawn to; honestly I just fell into it. Now I find myself in the pain of having been betrayed and I am having to step back and look at myself in every part of the process and honestly aprise where I went wrong. I just was not paying attention, not listenin to my gut at all like I should have been; it's like I believed I was invincible and nothing could hurt me. Boy did I learn the hard way. This is where I am at in the steps now, having gone through step two and having to turn it all back over to a higher power, also having to make a promise to myself to PAY ATTENTION to what is going on around me and who I let into my life.

06-08-2007, 08:43 AM	#30 (permalink)
2ala2 Lost-n-Found Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Cairo Posts: 917	It's great when I do thing in a diffirent way other than may way...

06-08-2007, 10:26 AM	#31 (permalink)
Peter Moderator Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Leaving Sparta Posts: 2,931	If I wanna do it "my way" I go to Burger King...

06-30-2007, 12:17 AM	#33 (permalink)
jimhere Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Pugetopolis Posts: 2,392	I see it posted here on this thread that AA's definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over expecting different results. Not so. The Big Book says that it is a lack of proportion (in thinking) and of the ability to think straight. The form of insanity being refrerred to is in regards to alcohol-the peculiar mental twist that, despite all the evidence to the contrary, says "this time it will be different." What is the root of this malady? Quite simply, the root of our trouble is selfishness and self-centeredness. Literally being driven (not choosing) by fear, self-delusion, self-seeking, self pity, etc. back to a drink. Resentment being the number one offender because it seperates me from you & from God. When harbouring such feelings I am shut off from the sunlight of spirit and I become insane and I drink. Seperation=insanity. Shutoff from God, there is no choice but to drink. I don't mistake immaturity or foolish mistakes for insanity. I don't mistake the busy-ness of life for insanity. I don't mistake grief, depression, etc. for insanity. Insanity for an alcoholic happens when he/she takes drink, having full knowledge of themselves as an alcoholic. Jim

04-10-2008, 10:31 AM	#36 (permalink)
Cocoon Let Go & Let God! Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Somewhere, Illinois Posts: 8	Yes, my definition of insanity WAS doing the samething over and over expecting a different result but NOW it is picking up that first drink knowing full well what it does to me. Excercising good judgement. I have not been doing this. I am insane. I cannot do this alone. I have not been to a f2f meeting. I am not very comfortable with this but I do believe the 12 Steps are my way to go. I believe that I have to give my HP (God) will over my life because I am insane. Proverbs 26:11 As a dog returns to its vomit, so a fool repeats his folly. When do you know to go on to Step 3???? I believe in my HP. Can I do this with on-line meetings? Am I posting in the right area? Just some questions????

04-10-2008, 11:24 AM	#37 (permalink)
ananda Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 11,908 Blog Entries: 1	By the time I got sober, I was dealing with the Physical part of alchoholism....needed medical supervision...was sooooo sick and worse when I tried to not drink (which wasn't often in the end) I drank to keep from the sickness that can happen with detox as much as all the rest. But prior to my picking up a drink in 2000, I suffered from the insanity of this disease. I really thought that since I had worked through so many "outside issues" that I thought were part of why I drankl, that I might not be an alchoholic. That if I drank...this time would be different. It didn't take long to find out that wasn't so, but took a lot of years and medical detox to get back. Yes, I do have other "insanities" by many definitions, but sometimes those things have more to do with being a human being I think.

04-10-2008, 06:37 PM	#39 (permalink)
ian_g Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Philly and NYC Posts: 221	Insanity is clearly defined in the BB. It says it is the thought that precedes the first drink.

03-03-2009, 12:39 PM	#40 (permalink)
DaveBB164 Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: UK Posts: 198	First of all I had to understand insanity and the insanity is the subtle insanity that precedes the first drink, that is the insanity I came to believe I would be restored from, the last drink I had the thought I got was "just have a couple it will be different this time" that was the subtle insanity that preceded my first drink, without that the allergy would be moot.

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