Am I an atheist?

[Birddog]

I believe there is an underlying force in the universe. It is not a single entity, nor can it be described in any terms known to man.

And the force has nothing at all to do with floods, earthquakes, or any other natural phenomenon that living on a ball of molten rock spinning thru the universe brings with it.

My faith that there is an underlying force, and that it is a force for good has many benefits for me.

It has allowed me to escape the curse of alcoholism, and it gives me comfort and confidence.

But....am I an atheist?

[Don S]

A-theists exist only because there are theists. You can call yourself whatever you like: atheist, agnostic, or just plain 'nothing'. Others may define you differently, but that is their problem.
Don S

[best]

I would think that by what you stated, you are closer to an agnostic then an athiest. That would put you in the same ball park as people like Albert Einstein.
Doesn't matter what you call yourself as long as you find it works to keep you sober.

[Don S]

Definition of Agnostic:


Agnosticism is a concept, not a religion. It is a belief related to the existence or non-existence of God.


An agnostic is a person who feels that God's existence can neither be proved nor disproved, on the basis of current evidence. Agnostics note that some theologians and philosophers have tried to to prove, for millennia, that God exists. Others have attempted to prove that God does not exist. Agnostics feel that neither side has convincingly succeeded at their task.


Are they Theists? No, because Agnostics do not believe in a God, or a Goddess, or in multiple Gods, or multiple Goddesses or in a pantheon of Gods and Goddesses.


However, some Agnostics consider themselves to be Atheists. That is because the term "Atheist" has two slightly different meanings:

A person who positively believes that no God(s) or Goddess(es) exists. E. Haldeman-Julius suggests that "The atheist perceives that history, in every branch of science, in the plainly observable realities of life and in the processes of common sense there is no place for the picture of a God; the idea doesn't fit in with a calmly reasoned and realistic view of life. The atheist, therefore denies the assumptions of theism because they are mere assumptions and are not proved; whereas the contrary evidences, against the idea of theism, are overwhelming." 1 This is the definition of Atheism used by most Christians, other Theists, and dictionaries of the English language.

A person who has no belief in a God or Goddess. Just as a newborn has no concept of a deity, some adults also have no such belief. The term "Atheist" is derived from the Greek words "a" which means "without" and "Theos" which means "God." A person can be a non-Theist by simply lacking a belief in God without actively denying God's existence. This is the definition of Atheism used by many Atheists. They use the term "strong Atheist" to refer to a person who denies the existence of one or more deities.



Some Agnostics feel that their beliefs match the second definition, and thus consider themselves to be both Atheist and an Agnostic. Such confusion is common in the field of religion. We have found 17 definitions for the term "Witch," eight for "cult," and six for the "Pagan." -- all different. A lack of clear, unambiguous definitions for religious terms is responsible for a great deal of confusion and hatred. It makes dialog between Agnostics and Theists very difficult.


An agnostic usually holds the question of the existence of God open, pending the arrival of more evidence. They are willing to change their belief if some solid evidence or logical proof is found in the future. However, some have taken the position that there is no logical way in which the existence or the non-existence of a deity can be proven.




Famous Agnostics:


Charles Darwin, a 19th century British self-taught geologist and writer. He attended a course in theology at Christ's College, Cambridge. Darwin wrote in two places in his book "Life and Letters" about his personal faith:


"The mystery of the beginning of all things is insoluble by us; and I for one must be content to remain an Agnostic."


"I think an Agnostic would be the more correct description of my state of mind. The whole subject [of God] is beyond the scope of man's intellect."



Thomas H. Huxley, a well known English religious skeptic, invented the term Agnostic in the 1840's.* He combined "a" which implies negative, with "gnostic" which is a Greek word meaning knowledge.


In 1899, he wrote:



"...every man should be able to give a reason for the faith that is in him; it is the great principle of Descartes; it is the fundamental axiom of modern science. Positively the principle may be expressed: In matters of the intellect, follow your reason as far as it will take you, without regard to any other consideration. And negatively: In matters of the intellect do not pretend that conclusions are certain which are not demonstrated or demonstrable. That I take to be the agnostic faith, which if a man keep whole and undefiled, he shall not be ashamed to look the universe in the face, whatever the future may have in store for him." 7



He also wrote:


"When I reached intellectual maturity, and began to ask myself whether I was an atheist, a theist, or a pantheist; a materialist or an idealist; a Christian or a freethinker, I found that the more I learned and reflected, the less ready was the answer; until at last I came to the conclusion that I had neither art nor part with any of these denominations, except the last...So I took thought, and invented what I conceived to be the appropriate title of "agnostic". It came into my head as suggestively antithetic to the "gnostic" of Church history, who professed to know so much about the very things of which I was ignorant..." 2



Robert G. Ingersoll is perhaps the most famous American Agnostic of the 19th century. He commented on the problem of theodicy -- the presence of evil in a universe that many people believe was created and is run by God:*


"There is no subject -- and can be none -- concerning which any human being is under any obligation to believe without evidence...The man who, without prejudice, reads and understands the Old and New Testaments will cease to be an orthodox Christian. The intelligent man who investigates the religion of any country without fear and without prejudice will not and cannot be a believer....He who cannot harmonize the cruelties of the Bible with the goodness of Jehovah, cannot harmonize the cruelties of Nature with the goodness and wisdom of a supposed Deity. He will find it impossible to account for pestilence and famine, for earthquake and storm, for slavery, for the triumph of the strong over the weak, for the countless victories of injustice. He will find it impossible to account for martyrs -- for the burning of the good, the noble, the loving, by the ignorant, the malicious, and the infamous. " 3



Bertrand Russell was a well known British philosopher of the 20th century. He was arrested during World War I for anti-war activities, and filled out a form at the jail. The officer, noting that Russell had defined his religious affiliation as "Agnostic" commented: "Ah yes; we all worship Him in our own way, don't we."* This comment allegedly "kept him smiling through his first few days of incarceration." 4


Francois M. Voltaire, the French 18th century author and playwright is often considered the father of Agnosticism.

http://www.religioustolerance.org/agnostic.htm

[Don S]

Old family story: when my father joined the Navy in WWII, there was a screening interview. 'Catholic, Protestant, or Jewish?'
'No.'
The officer looked up. 'Come on, son, what are you?'
'Nothing.'
The officer looked at him again, and then -- being a good Catholic -- checked Protestant.
Don S

[AtheistAA]

Whether or not you are atheist, you are what you are. I'm a dyed-in-the-wool atheist who goes to meetings, regularly speak my mind, and started an atheist group that was given a formal registrations number by the General Service Organization of AA.

Believe what you believe, make the program work for you no matter what you must do. Remember, "How It Works" says we were willing to go to any lenght. If that means speaking from your experience, strength and hope about your atheism and how you make it work in the program, that is what you must do. To remain silent will make you angry, eventually, and filled with resentments.

I also started a Google Group for atheists in AA. We're just getting started, but read what's there and see whether it is helpful. atheistaa.blogspot.com Good luck.

[allport]

Your description of how you feel would probably most closely fit the definition of a pantheist but as everyone above has said you get to choose what you call yourself.

If you are using your own definition of a higher power and it is helping you with staying sober don't stress.

I am an atheist and believe it or not it's not a dirty word we stopped eating babies years ago.

[allport]

Wow this is an old one I will have to start checking dates before I reply to threads.

[ElegantlyWasted]

My understanding of atheism involves the belief that ther is no higher power, no sort of Afterlife, and is a refutation of any and all concepts of gods, religion and any spiritual avenue. I got in a little mischevious trouble for trying to explore the very real social phenomenon of the god reflex on the athiest board, but got alot out of the experience. I think that to deny any sort of thing greater than we humans is beyond ou ability and therefore requires faith that god does not exist. The same faith that is the starting point for cultivating a spiritual or religious aspect of ones self. Therefore: the ony rational perspective is to be an agnostic. If someone chooses to worship lifesavers as their supreme being, I may have fun debating that individual, but I also see how it could work for someone. As long is it does not infringe on my own beliefs and freedom, do WTF you want whenever you want to. I think your are a spiritual agnostic if it makes any sense. Smile....

[Zencat]

Is disbelief in an idea the same as believing that the idea isn’t true? No: mere disbelief in the truth of a proposition is not equivalent to the belief that the proposition is false and that the opposite is true. If you make a claim and I disbelieve it, I am not necessarily saying that your claim is false. I may not understand it well enough to say one way or the other. I may lack enough information to test your claim. I may simply not care enough to think about it. There are a variety of reasons why I might disbelieve something and the most basic meaning for disbelief is to simply lack belief."
-Austin Cline

I'm an non believer mostly because I have yet so see any cause to believe in God. I don't see how disbelief can be a belief in of it self??????????????? very puzzled...LOL.

[Boleo]

Originally Posted by allport

Your description of how you feel would probably most closely fit the definition of a pantheist but as everyone above has said you get to choose what you call yourself.

I agree. Pantheist would probably best describe your viewpoint. At any rate you don't sound like a atheist.

I would say you have enough spiritual belief to go through the steps except maybe step 11 and you can cross that bridge when you get to it.