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Old 04-12-2012, 07:52 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Emmet Fox - Sermon on the Mount

Several of us started talking in a thread elsewhere on SR about Emmet Fox, Sermon on the Mount, and some of his other books.

I thought about possibly posting in the "book review" area but, since I'm starting the thread, my hope that the discussion to follow might be more of a discovering/growing in spirituality vein than just specifically a book review.

Now that that's out..... SotM was THE book for me early in recovery. Oddly enough, it made WAY more sense to me than the AA Big Book. I was too delusional to see almost any of me in the Big Book but Sermon struck a chord. My copy is more marked up, highlighted, underlined, arrowed and noted-up than my original Big Book.

I'm due to read it again but haven't due to......well.....other excuses. My hope is that perhaps we can discuss Sermon....or maybe some of Emmet's other books.....or maybe just his religious beliefs......and maybe how they relate to and/or assist sobriety.

Mike

**fwiw, I dunno how busy this is gonna be so I'm going to subscribe to the thread and get email notifications to it......I don't usually wander down to these parts too often on my own.
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Old 04-12-2012, 08:36 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Thanks Dt.......Im on shift at the moment but am very interested in discussions here...i found the sermon on the mount tough going....strangely i found the BB the polar opposite and have difficulty in articulating why.

I have a burning sense of...."these are very important writings to deepen my spiritual growth and understanding".......

Maybe some whom have read the stated book could share what inspirations where gained from it ?.......?.........and ??
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Old 04-12-2012, 09:49 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Hi DT,

I loved that book!
Mine is highlighted and underlined and dogeared also!! I read it in 85-86ish, my first time in AA.
As soon as these cookies are done I'm going to look up in the attic to see if I can find it.
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Old 04-12-2012, 12:08 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Maybe some whom have read the stated book could share what inspirations where gained from it ?.......?.........and ??
I have read SOTM several times and even owned multiple copies but no longer have it and can't remember any of it well enough to quote it verbatim.

If I remember right, this is the book where Emmet describes where scripture always has multiple layers of meaning. For instance; "Turn the other cheek" can mean forgive your enemies or it can mean face all adversity with a non-judgemental attitude.

This parallels Meister Eckharts Detachment, Hindu Nishkam Karmha , Buddhism ZaZen and Taoism Wu-wei.
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Old 04-12-2012, 03:22 PM   #5 (permalink)
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I love Emmett Fox and Sermon on the Mount. That was one of my first recovery books too and I just loved reading it. Each time I read it, it is from a different perspective because my recovery has grown since then, and my understanding of what he is saying is clearer today...or I just see it all in a better way.

I'm glad you mentioned this because I haven't read it in a long time and I'm due to give it another go.

Hugs
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Old 04-12-2012, 05:58 PM   #6 (permalink)
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yep, read it way back also

a part of it lies within me...

just dont remember what part! lol
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Old 04-12-2012, 07:36 PM   #7 (permalink)
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It's been over a year since I read it cover to cover..... but the last time through I was deliberately slow, took NOTES (like in college.....hoping I'd retain the info better than just reading it), and made a nifty little bookmark out of my interpretation of Emmet's interpretation of the Beatitudes...lol

The meat of the book is in his explaining the Beatitudes and what Jesus meant (well, what Emmet thought Jesus meant) when he said them. He (Emmet) goes into depth about the teachings being metaphysical, not literal. In other words, there's a deeper meaning to the words than just their specific definitions.

He also does a fantastic job in writing about "Scientific Prayer" where, verrrry basically, one prays with the 100% belief/conviction that God WILL do what we're asking. (there's more to it but we can get into that later......I need to brush up on that stuff because it was a tough concept for me to get).

At the end, he "explains" the Lord's Prayer (the "Our Father") in a way that I think even the more ardent atheist would probably say, "hmm, pretty good prayer, that one." lol

One thing I remember vividly is the first paragraph or so of the first chapter (not the preface) where he sets the stage for the book. One thing he did that I though was REALLY cool, and I use it in the program to this day with friends/sponsees, is he says that whatever our religious convictions, whatever our beliefs about Jesus, whatever we think about him being a him or a Him......that whatever we think is ok. For the purpose of this book, he goes on, it's pretty safe to say that whatever Jesus was (man, God, a fictitious character.....), there's no denying that the teachings attributed to him are 1. important (or we wouldn't be talking about them still.....today) 2. relevant.....even today 3. pretty darn cool.

There's more to it than that but I do recall reading that (and I had no "issues" with Jesus...) and thinking, man....how cool.....what a great way to politely ask us to set aside our old beliefs/prejudices for a while.

LOL......Gee, I think there's some blue colored 12-stair book or something like that which has some similar lines in it....... hmmmmmmm

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Old 04-13-2012, 10:01 AM   #8 (permalink)
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The meat of the book is in his explaining the Beatitudes and what Jesus meant (well, what Emmet thought Jesus meant) when he said them. He (Emmet) goes into depth about the teachings being metaphysical, not literal. In other words, there's a deeper meaning to the words than just their specific definitions.
If I remember right, he interpreted the 1st Beatitude "Blessed are the poor of spirit" as "Blessed are those with a broken spirit".

I can't think of anyone with a more broken spirit than an alcoholic. Does anyone else see how the real first step of spiritual recovery is a step we must have imposed on us from an outside force? I myself had to be beaten into a state of reasonableness.

"Faced with alcoholic destruction, we soon became as open minded on spiritual matters as we had tried to be on other questions. In this respect alcohol was a great persuader. It finally beat us into a state of reasonableness. "
(BB page 48)
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Old 04-13-2012, 10:22 AM   #9 (permalink)
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LOL......Gee, I think there's some blue colored 12-stair book or something like that which has some similar lines in it....... hmmmmmmm
One line I am convinced came from an Emmet Fox book is "the beam";

"First we will wish to be reasonably certain that we are on the A.A. beam."
(12&12 page 84)

"We may often pass through Twelfth Step experiences where we will seem to be temporarily off the beam."
(12&12 page 111)

"Without necessarily taking that first drink, we often get quite far off the beam. "
(12&12 page 112)
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Old 04-13-2012, 10:59 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Hey DT good to see you have continued the discussion over on this forum.

I have heard a lot about this book and have been very interested in it. I do not have the book as of yet? I was wondering if you knew if I could get it through Barnes & Noble as a Nook Book? I guess I can check but I thought I would ask 1st.

Looking forward to learning more.
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Old 04-13-2012, 11:52 AM   #11 (permalink)
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[QUOTE=Boleo;3361553]If I remember right, he interpreted the 1st Beatitude "Blessed are the poor of spirit" as "Blessed are those with a broken spirit".

the way emmet actually interpreted this was not as it would seem...and indeed has everything to do with the first step and surrender.....he says the the poor in spirit are indeed those who have emptied themselves of all desire to exercise self will...so to be "poor in spirit" is actually a wonderful place to be.....the beginning of your reliance on God.
he says that those who are poor in spirit are at a place where they are ready to set aside present habits of thought,views,prejudices,your whole present way of life if necessary....anything that stands in the way of you finding your relationship with God....coooooooooooool : )
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Old 04-13-2012, 11:54 AM   #12 (permalink)
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oooh...and...i bought my friend george a new emmet fox book last week for his fourth birthday...hes smashed it and i get my hands on it tommorow.
"make your life worthwhile" i had a sneaky peak before i gave it to him...and i got a txt from him on the night i gave it to him and there was stuff in there that took him to a new dimension....ace.
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Old 04-13-2012, 12:45 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Charmie, either u have a great memory or you checked the book.

Oh, and newby... you can get paperback on alibris.com for a couple bucks. I'm a hard-cover guy cuz I like to keep them a long time so I have the hardcover version. think I got it on amazon or maybe from the emmet fox website. I've said it before but if I HAD to choose one book, Sermon or the BB..... a lot of days I'd choose Sermon.

Beatitudes start in chapt 2. I have it open and charmie pretty much quoted it. empty of all desire to exercise self-will. He goes on to say "to have renounced all preconceived opinions in the wholehearted search for God. It means to be willing to set aside your present habits of thought, your present views and prejudices, your present way of life if necessary; to jettison, in face, anything and everything that can stand in the way of your finding God." (wow........typing that gave me some goose-bumps)

DAMN!!! sure sounds like "We Agnostics" doesn't it?

From there he goes on to talk about how we ppl reject salvation because we have great possessions. Not that we're $ rich, but rich in preconceived beliefs, judgments, spiritual pride, sentimental attachments, habits of life we don't want to give up, and so on. It's these "possessions," he argues, that keep us "chained to the rock of suffering that is our exile from God."

He then wrote about how Jesus' message wasn't well received by the religious ppl of Jerusalem because their possessions of Rabbinical teachings and of religious pride we too great for them to give up. Interestingly, it was the meek...the humble....the unlearned folks.....the ppl beaten down......THEY were able to hear and understand the message.

---sound a lot like step 1 -- powerless and unmanageable (but able to consider something "different" and revolutionary like a spiritual solution)

And Boleo, I hear ya with outside forces. By outside forces though, I tend to think of penalties, punishments, the law, a spouse, medical complications, etc. I dunno that they are necessarily enough on their own. On the other hand, at some time we get willing to try something different. I think of it as the willingness that makes the change, not necessarily that we were broken by outside circumstances. I know a decent chunk of your history....and as an outsider, I could say you should have been willing to walk a different path long before you did. Same is true for most of us. We, as a group, have a remarkable ability to live with pain and discomfort and think it's normal.....or at least it's acceptable.

Then, suddenly, IT just changed.... Nothing remarkable happened on your last day if i remember Boleo....same for me.....something DID change though. Willingness appeared. I sure as heck didn't create it....hell, I didn't even want it at first.... but I had it. I was WILLING to consider aa, spirituality, getting help, going to meetings, and doing all the things that are asked of us in recovery.

So, if by outside force you mean God.....then yeah, I'm with ya all the way
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Old 04-13-2012, 12:47 PM   #14 (permalink)
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We can stay on this beatitude for a while or move on to the next one. Group conscience? lol

(the next one is: Blessed are they that mourn: for they shall be comforted)
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Old 04-13-2012, 02:11 PM   #15 (permalink)
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i didnt check the sermon on the mount...shauns got my copy...lol....
i checked around the year!! ha ha ha ha
...i try to apply it daily hand in hand with my program.....and my friend george i mentioned earlier gave me the sermon on the mount when i first got through the steps...we had many many discussions about it and he helped me a lot with it.
will never tire of emmet fox i dont believe....always something to learn : ) this is going to be cool.
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Old 04-13-2012, 09:43 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Yeah getting that...poor of spirit.

This book, makes me realize that the bible is probably the most miss understood and mis-interpreted book i have......
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Old 04-14-2012, 10:40 AM   #17 (permalink)
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We can stay on this beatitude for a while or move on to the next one. Group conscience? lol

(the next one is: Blessed are they that mourn: for they shall be comforted)
I think Dr. Fox is saying that the Bible means "mourn" to be experiencing poor health, financial difficulties, relationship difficulties, etc. Any kind of "mourning" is a blessing in disguise because it's usually only in times of trouble that we seek God, who blesses us with "comfort" that we may know His grace and believe in Him.
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Old 04-14-2012, 01:00 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Any kind of "mourning" is a blessing in disguise...
IMO spiritual growth is the direct result of walking through fear, adversity and failure from the perspective of a student rather than from the perspective of a victim.

Thus, no pain, no gain.
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Old 04-14-2012, 10:06 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Hi ya guys,

Here is my funny story for my search of the book Sermon on the Mount. Okay so I had to go on-line and find the closets Barns & Noble as I had to get a cover for my Nook. I also needed to check on the classes they have to show me how to use it. Tech-no for Dummies
So after driving around getting semi-lost I found it all is well. So I am really spaced trying to remember the Nook thingy so when I go to customer service I couldn't remember the name I kept say Sermon on the Mound by Emmet something. Well of course nothing was coming back so the lady says "are you sure its Mound and not Mount? Well she found it and I started reading it tonight. I am only on the 1st chapter. I especially like when it talks about how Jesus 'taught no theology whatever. His teachings is entirely spiritual or metaphysical." Then it goes on to talk about how Christianity has concentrated on the theological and doctrinal questions which have no part in Gospel teaching. Anyway needless to say I am going to learn a whole lot from this book and I am so excited about it.
Have a great night folks.
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Old 04-15-2012, 02:55 AM   #20 (permalink)
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IMO spiritual growth is the direct result of walking through fear, adversity and failure from the perspective of a student rather than from the perspective of a victim.

Thus, no pain, no gain.

I think I usually bring "mourning" onto myself through self-centeredness, shutting out the Great Spirit.
Then when it all comes tumbling down, I want "comfort".
I have to be humbled first to even think about turning my will and life over to G.A.I.U.H.
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