Calling all Jews...

[hebrewdiva]

Just wondering if there are any Jews out there?

Would like to know how you're interpreting the HP part of AA...and how you're dealing with the whole Lord's Prayer thing at the end.

Also would appreciate tips on how to abstain during religious services...like Kiddush, and during Pesach and Purim.

Toda raba!

[historyteach]

Shalom, hebrewdiva!

And welcome to SR!
I'm not in AA, so, I cannot address some of your questions specifically.

But, as you are aware, the commandment to save a life is foremost and above every other commandment. That includes your own life! So, abstaining during Pesach and the Sabbath is a necessity. Your life is at stake here if you are an alcoholic. Far too many alcoholics never return to sobriety after a relapse. And our religious traditions are no excuse for a relapse. I know of no rabbi, not even the most orthodox, who would say you must drink during these festivities -- no, not even during Purim!

I have, and occassional still do, go to alanon or naranon meetings, though. My son is a heroin addict. So, I understand what you're saying as far as my understanding of a HP and the Lord's Prayer. This is what *I* do.

My HP is G*D. I have no problem with G*D whatsoever. G*D is the Creator; the Eternal One; the Breath of Life within each of us. Jewish tradition speaks of G*D on many levels, and you shouldn't have any problem finding your HP within the Jewish tradition.

The Lord's Prayer does present us with a problem, I understand. We do not accept Jesus as the Christ, Greek for the Savior. We understand, and respect that others do, just as we know others respect our beliefs. So, again, what *I* do is just stand quietly during that prayer. I cannot pray to a god that is not true to me, even as I do respect others beliefs.

I must be true to me, first and foremost. To do otherwise would be harmful to my integrity. As Shakespear said, "To thine own self be true." As long as we are respectful and true to ourselves, we will continue to be respected. Afterall, we're there at the meetings for a common purpose, yes? And that purpose is support. So, keep it simple. And be true to yourself. You'll do fine.

L'Chaim!

[hebrewdiva]

Thank you SO MUCH! That makes things a lot clearer, now that you mention it. Standing during the Lord's Prayer might be awkward at first but it's a good way to abstain. Like you said, I don't believe in Jesus as my HP - my HP is G-d, the G-d of Abraham. Thanks for the suggestions about Kiddush and holidays as well - at home I can just use grape juice but if I'm at services, I just won't partake.

Again, thanks so much!

[Ann]

I had a Jewish friend who attended CoDA with me, and she just considered "Our Father" to be God so had no problem with the prayer. Others abstained from saying the prayer for their own personal reasons, but joined in the circle because it symbolized our fellowship with each other. Some meetings we just ended with the Serenity Prayer.

I consider myself non-denominational, or perhaps multi-denominations if you will, because I find good in most all teachings, regardless of what they call their Higher Power. I post daily on the "Prayers for the Addict Who Suffers" thread and try to use a variety of prayers or teachings not just to accommodate more who might stop there but because I myself have found great strength in many different teachings. I leave church doctrine up to others, it's like politics to me. I respect their doctrines when visiting their places of worship, but attend for my own relationship with my Higher Power, who I choose to call God.

Welcome to the Spirituality forums, may you find peace and serenity here.

Hugs

[historyteach]

Standing during the Lord's Prayer might be awkward at first but it's a good way to abstain.

I guess I'm a bit confused here, hebrewdiva. (Love the name, btw! LOL!)
As Ann points out, the prayer is said in a circle, when everyone is standing. It's at the end of the meeting. So, if everyone is already standing, why would it be awkward? Or is it done differently at the meeting you go to? I only ask so I can help, if possible.

Like Ann, I also find strength in the teachings of many faiths. At their core, they all teach about love of G*D and each other. It's just a shame so much harm has been, and is still is being done in G*D's name. Perhaps one day we will learn...

Shalom!

[Rusty Zipper]

hi hebrewdiva,

a dear departed friend of mine is jewish,

and in our A.A. home group bobby attended,

at the end, when it came time to for the lords prayer,

bobby laways folded his hands, and and i could always see his lips move in hebrew.

here's something you may like to take a gander at.

http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...p-schecky.html (RIP Schecky!)


btw, i'm italian american.

shalom

[hebrewdiva]

Thanks everyone! Rusty, I'm so sorry to hear about your friend. Looks like he touched a lot of lives during his time here.

Day 6 and hanging in there....

[Rusty Zipper]

were with you diva

[citychick]

Hi diva,

Jesus was Jewish. In my limited understanding...he prayed the Lords Prayer to his higher power...the G*D of Abraham. So, like I mentioned my understanding is limited but I don't see a cause for concern. Congratulations on your 6 days diva, you're obviously doing something right.

This is my favourite Lords Prayer. It's a translation from the original Aramaic.



Lords Prayer, from the original Aramaic
Translation by Neil Douglas-Klotz in Prayers of the Cosmos

O Birther! Father- Mother of the Cosmos

Focus your light within us - make it useful.

Create your reign of unity now-

through our fiery hearts and willing hands

Help us love beyond our ideals

and sprout acts of compassion for all creatures.

Animate the earth within us: we then

feel the Wisdom underneath supporting all.

Untangle the knots within

so that we can mend our hearts' simple ties to each other.

Don't let surface things delude us,

But free us from what holds us back from our true purpose.

Out of you, the astonishing fire,

Returning light and sound to the cosmos.

Amen.

[historyteach]

citychick,

Thank you for your post. I was unaware of the Jewish origens of The Lord's Prayer, and went looking for it's Jewish roots as a result of your post. Here is just one example of my limited research, from an excellent source:
JewishEncyclopedia.com - LORD'S PRAYER, THE:
This article traces the original form and meaning of the prayer, and it's relation to the messianic expectation. Though it may a bit complicated to understand, without a Jewish background, anyone who chooses to can do so with a minimum of effort.

I also found this letter from Bill Wilson on the "Christian document," re, The Lord's Prayer at AA meetings. A.A. History - Regarding The Lord's Prayer In A.A.
In it, he also refers to it's Christian origins.

Evidently, it is a widespread idea that the Lord's Prayer is a Christian prayer. It's Jewish origins seem to have been completely lost through time. Interesting.... even as we know that Jesus lived and died as a Jew....

With that, I am grateful for this enlightening exercise.

Shalom!

[indigo]

Welcome hebrewdiva I'm sure you'll enjoy our forum I was brought up Catholic & now I do not adhere to any religion I am not a Christian & I learn much from the teachings of all denominations. I considor myself to be a spiritual being doing the best I can to lead an honourable life.
Shalom.