Fellow Buddhist in Recovery: The Sequel

[MycoolFitz]

Thought it might be nice to get this thread retreaded and on the road, or path if you'd ruther. I've been attracted to, and practicing Buddhism for a nimber of years, actually since the 60's when I attempted to call the Buddha long distance while on an especially bizzare acid adventure--you can't imagine the phone bill. Most of my practice was during active drugging and drinking though I went clean 23 years ago. This moment my spirituality and my sobriety are so wonderful its as if I'm living my everyday life, but two inches off the ground. No cravings, no desires, just nowness, its wonderful. I'd love to learn and share with those with a desire. If there are any so desiring, I'll try to keep this thread going, if not I'll let it go. Doesn't matter, its all good. Namaste

One day the Buddha held up a flower in front of an audience of 1,250 monks and nuns. he did not say anything for quite a long time. The audience was perfectly silent. Everyone seemed to be thinking hard, trying to see the meaning behind the Buddha's gesture. Then, suddenly, the Buddha smiled. He smiled because someone in the audience smiled at him and at the flower.... To me the meaning is quite simple. When someone holds up a flower and shows it to you, he wants you to see it. If you keep thinking, you miss the flower. The person who was not thinking, who was just himself, was able to encounter the flower in depth, and he smiled.
That is the problem of life. If we are not fully ourselves, truly in the present moment, we miss everything.-- Thich Nhat Hanh

[NewBeginning010]

Thanks MycoolFitz, I appreciate this thread. This will be my second post in the "Spiritually" section.

Can you go into more detail on how you started to incorporate Buddhism into your recovery & what reading material you would recommend for a fellow recovering alcoholic that would like to start practicing?

Thank you so much for your help & your input on my other question re practicing both Buddhism & Christianity together.

Take Care,

NB

[MycoolFitz]

Originally Posted by NewBeginning010

Thanks MycoolFitz, I appreciate this thread. This will be my second post in the "Spiritually" section.

Can you go into more detail on how you started to incorporate Buddhism into your recovery & what reading material you would recommend for a fellow recovering alcoholic that would like to start practicing?

Thank you so much for your help & your input on my other question re practicing both Buddhism & Christianity together.

Take Care,

NB

Sure, it really started when I was meditating/medicating on alcohol and vicoden. Turned out I was just passing out crossed legged. After contemplating just checking out, shucking the body shell I decided to follow the precept not to cloud my mind with alcohol and drugs. Things work a lot better. You can check out "The Twelve Buddhist", "One Breath at a Time" and "The Zen of Recovery" for starters. Feel free to contact me at mycoolfitz46@yahoo.com or my blog www.dharmaofaddiction@blogspot.com
If you'd like more info, ideas, sharing practice, sobrity etc. Good to develop a Sanga of Sobriety. My email is most direct and interpersonal.

We are what we think.
All that we are arises with our thoughts.
With our thoughts, we make our world.—Buddha

Namaste

[NewBeginning010]

Thanks so much MycoolFitz, the Zen of Recovery seems to be calling for me right now. I will pick that up asap. I am thinking about attending a local Buddhist meditation night tonight.

I am a little reluctant & excited at the same time. Hopefully everything turns out ok. I have had strong anxiety attacks creep in while trying meditation in the past (one time it was explained to me that I was hitting the floor). That was during a transcendental meditation seminar years ago.

Thanks again for your input.

NB

[Boleo]

http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...12th-step.html (Is there Buddhism in the 12th Step?)

[MycoolFitz]

Hum, don't no if we're getting anywhere with this thread, thank goodness there is nowhere to be gotten. Was re-reading some Pema Chodron (what an amazing women) and thought I'd just share this, it really speaks to me.

"Things falling apart is a kind of testing and also a kind of healing. We think that the point is to pass the test or to overcome the problem, but the truth is that things don’t really get solved. They come together and they fall apart. Then they come together again and fall apart again. It’s just like that. The healing comes from letting there be room for all of this to happen: room for grief, for relief, for misery, for joy…When things fall apart and we’re on the verge of we know not what, the test for each of us is to stay on the brink and not concretize. The spiritual journey is not about heaven and finally getting to a place that’s really swell…We use these situations either to wake ourselves up or to put ourselves to sleep. Right now—in the very instant of groundlessness—is the seed of taking care of those who need our care and discovering our goodness".—Pema Chodron

[Rusty Zipper]

fitzty, aint nowhere, really somewhere?

just think of all that may read this thread...

it's away of taking care of...

[MycoolFitz]

You're so right Rusty Zipper, unless you're a real nowhere man living in your nowhere land...Who knows? My mind is a little twisted zen-wise, but hey my self or my no-self is sober so its all good. I wish this for everyone, its so wonderful. I was doing the dishes today and thought, damn, I'm sober--so great, than went back to the dishes.

"Since things neither exist nor don’t exist,
Are neither real nor unreal.
Are utterly beyond adopting or rejecting—
One might as well burst out laughing."—Longchenpa

[stone]

I am re-reading "One Breath at a time", I recommend it, I think it is probably the easiest Buddhism and recovery books to get into.

I have also been listening to The Teaching Company's audiobook about Buddhism, it gives some background about Buddhism and the different schools, it is a bit superficial (due to time constraint) but very good.

I have never got into really studying Buddhism, I don't like lists, lol, I can barely remember the 12 steps of AA, I don't need more lists and I am somewhat put off and confused by all the different schools....I think I am being drawn to Soto Zen though, with it's emphasis on just sitting, meditation and mindfulness.

Mainly I am drawn to mindfulness, it is the one thing that I do try to "practice" and it is wonderful. It has helped me so much. Mindfulness is being used a lot in the treatment of depression and stress and reduction these days too, the main exponent of the medical use is Jon Kabat-Zin, I like his stuff a lot too.

So I am not really a Buddhist but I love Mindfulness, which I see as teh core of Buddhism and I also like the concepts of no-self and emptiness though they can be quite hard to understand.
The TTC audiobook talks about emptiness being the ultimate reality but then there is ordinary reality too and maybe the right way to think is to hold this ultimate reality and common-sense reality simultaneously....I don't quite understand it and would like to research that a bit more somehow.
What Rusty said reminded me of this non-duality duality, lol.

aint nowhere, really somewhere?

, according to what I have been talking about, it is both. I think it is called the doctrine of two truths.

[stone]

An old pond (ultimate reality)
a frog leaps in (conventional reality)
sound of water (the meeting of the two realities)

[Rusty Zipper]

[stone]

Hi Pat!

[MycoolFitz]

"Freckled Speckled Frog
Fat frog jumps in road
Frog forgets to look both ways
Splat goes speckled frog"
by poetic muse

Enjoyed reading the posts today. I 've studied the various schools of Buddhism as well and the numbering thing certainly is something. Basically a memory aid to passing the teachings orally. I also tend to lean (or sit) toward Soto Zen, like AA, its simple but it isn't easy. I enjoyed One Breath at a Time, also The 12-Step Buddhist, and the Zen of Recovery. Quite a few books out there, apparently Buddhists' make good alcoholics. The thing I need to be mindful of is my tendency to intellectualize Buddhism and Recovery, rather than be Buddhism and Recovery. And actually Buddhism is a Western term since we're in love with isms. Really just Dharma practice which I need to remember.

From the Alicelookingglassdhamma: "I wonder if I've been changed in the night? Let me think. Was I the same when I got up this morning? I almost think I can remember feeling a little different. But if I'm not the same, the next question is 'Who in the world am I?' Ah, that's the great puzzle!"

[ananda]

thank you

[stone]

The thing I need to be mindful of is my tendency to intellectualize Buddhism and Recovery, rather than be Buddhism and Recovery.

Yea, good point. I tend to forget to do both, think about AND do. I mostly remember to do mindfulness though and I have been sober for a month so things are OK right now.

Hi Nands.

[MycoolFitz]

Came across this: if wishes were fishes...I'd not picked up that first drink, my thirst for escape proved too great. But here I am, and here I intend to remain, one moment at a time.

“There is no other place. We’re forever here…There’s only this one place: right here, right now…To be here is freedom from insanity, fear, worry, struggle, striving, the urgent desire to control, and the habitual yearning for security and escape from pain.”—Steve Hagen, Buddhism is Not What You Think

Namaste

[stone]

Nice quote.

[NewBeginning010]

Originally Posted by MycoolFitz

Came across this: if wishes were fishes...I'd not picked up that first drink, my thirst for escape proved too great. But here I am, and here I intend to remain, one moment at a time.

“There is no other place. We’re forever here…There’s only this one place: right here, right now…To be here is freedom from insanity, fear, worry, struggle, striving, the urgent desire to control, and the habitual yearning for security and escape from pain.”—Steve Hagen, Buddhism is Not What You Think

Namaste

Thank you so much for this, I love this quote. I am going to make a trip to the bookstore today for some of the books mentioned in this thread.

Take Care,

NB

[stone]

Hi NB.


I found this Dhamma Talks Some stuff to listen to free.

Also http://personallifemedia.com/podcast...buddhist-geeks

[MycoolFitz]

Originally Posted by stone

Hi NB.


I found this Dhamma Talks Some stuff to listen to free.

Also Podcast: Buddhist Geeks - Seriously Buddhist, Seriously Geeky

Wow, thanks for the share, bookmarked and ready to roll! I love learning and sharing and finding new stuff which is old stuff, oh oh, duelistic.

[NewBeginning010]

Originally Posted by stone

Hi NB.


I found this Dhamma Talks Some stuff to listen to free.

Also Podcast: Buddhist Geeks - Seriously Buddhist, Seriously Geeky

Lots of listening & learning to do now. Thanks so much Stone

Great links indeed!

[NewBeginning010]

I could fill up my 80 Gig media player with the amount of stuff here. Wow

Downloadable Dhamma Talks, Essays, and Books by Thanissaro Bhikkhu of Metta Forest Monastery (Wat Metta)

Listening to this now - RECOVERING CRISIS ADDICTS

Ajahn Munindo


Recovering Crisis Addicts

[NewBeginning010]

A good talk on "Recovery Skills"

http://www.dhammatalks.org/Archive/0...y%20Skills.mp3

[emmanuel2012]

The buddha, godhead exists quite comfortably in the --------(fill in the blank)------ as it does in the jewel of a lotus flower

My _blank_ for the day is: the 12 steps of alcohlics anonymous.
As secular as some people get regarding higher powers,
The 12 steps are about achieving a spiritual experience, freedom from the desire to drink,
To say this is not aligned perfectly with the tenants of Buddhism after realizing this is absurd!

Aum mani padme hum.

Thank you for the enlightment today. Truth is power!

*goes and chops some wood*

My sponsor is a mystic, zen buddist, on his own personal eastern path.

In the archives somewhere is a zen thread that kept me sober, mostly pirsig quotes.
It kept me sober and somewhat sane.

Practicing buddhism on LSD peyote mescaline mushrooms pot to me was more confusing
Than practicing buddishm sober. The spiritual awareness, I see now, has little to do
With the manna or material trigger to the enlightment (drugs). Taking a psychedlic manna
Can catapult you to higher levels of awareness (not directly, only through altered perception), and can have a spiritual boomerang effect. But if you really practice buddhism,
You will see 2 problems with this :

1) the divine contract of achieving nirvana, fulfillment, enlightenment, ecstasis, blisss, realization, epiphany revellation , etc. Has little to with desire, feeling, and suddenness and much to do with freedom, truth and light. Therefore any "boomerang" experience is direct defiance to the contract of achieving non attachment/desire, as well as defiance to the gradual, that is, gradations of growth that occur as we climb the staircase of awareness
Piece by piece, we join experiences together. Personally I'm finding great success joining thesepieces with the continuosity of sobriety, rather than the order/chaos/order (or vice versa) of a mind-altering mindset/lifestyle. Altering the mind may have merit, but not if its placed ahead of Zhen. (Heaven)

2) the Ego when it gets thrown back to the consciousness that it can handle sober, will attach itself to the manna and treat it as a false, desireable deity. Ask any yogi of the benfits of a psydelic experience. They wouldn't discourage it, or advocate it, its like a non issue, no different than asking about the benefits of a shopping mall experience. All experience is an *equal* oppurtunity to learn.

Of course, this all means nothing, eveerything and something about recovery all at the same time.

[MycoolFitz]

Great Emmauel 2012. Thanks for the good read. I actually tried to call the Buddha (while on acid,this one not the Buddha as far as I know) long distance from Buffalo NY in 1971. You can't imagine the phone bill! Came across this today by the way.

“Getting high was not the same thing as being free…’Once you get the message you have to hang up the phone,” (Ram Dass) There was something called sadhana, one’s own spiritual work, that required diligence, commitment, honesty, and responsibility. Sadhana required working with our minds, our own hearts, our thoughts, feelings, relationships, emotions, and physical selves. All of the stuff of daily life could be, as he (Ram Dass) put it, “grist for the mill” of awakening.”—Mark Epstein.