Fellow Buddhists in recovery

[vashti45]

Someone here, I believe Blake's Tyger, suggested a discussion group for Buddhists and others interested in discussing Buddhist concepts/approaches to recovery. I'd be very interested. I just got back from a retreat (that I went to with my sponsor) in West Marin, where Tsultrim Allione led a workshop on Feeding Your Demons. Great tool for those of us in recovery. The basic idea, as I understand it, is that battling your demons only makes them stronger. If you feed them what they need, and feed them with your transformed body/self, they become allies and protectors. So transforming my alcoholism demon into something powerful and positive in sobriety is a real possibility if I work for it.

I have also been reading The Zen of Recovery by Mel Ash, a Zen teacher in recovery. It's really been helpful to me.

Anyway, just wanted to see if others are interested in forming an online group to discuss these ideas and practices.

Gassho,

Jana

[stone]

I am interested.

I wouldnt call myself a Buddhist but do use some things I have learned from it daily, such as trying to practice presence, loving-compassion etc.

I might not have much to bring to any discussion as my knowledge is limited to, mostly, Jack Kornfields books, lol.

I have just started 'One breath at a time' by Kevin Griffin and am liking it so far.

I usually listen to audio-books as I find that easier than reading, I think the alcohol abuse has ruined my concentration span for reading...and am listening to 'Practicing the power of now' by Eckhart Tolle currently.

[ananda]

count me in please!!!!!!!

I will make a comittment to post regularly. I so need to talk about how i apply budhhism to my alchoholism....but since i do the aa thing too, it will probably leak in there too.

I have found the buddhism helps me alot in all areas of my life. The understanding of dealing with thoughts helped me greatly to learn to deal with cravings and "triggers".

understanding my relationship to all things in the world is helpful. the idea that enlightenment is found within the very duality of the world of relationships that we create in everyday life has helped me to expand compasion in my life.

Sorry!!! Just really excited.

[stone]

Here is a quote from the book I am reading...


The Steps as Sila

In Buddhism the initial, purifying stage of spiritual development is called sila, usually translated as morality or virtue -- what one teacher calls "cleaning up your act." This involves living an ethical life; treating others and ourselves with kindness; and letting go of destructive behaviors. In Buddhist teachings, sila is formalized in the Five Lay Precepts -- and number five is "I take the training to abstain from alcohol and drugs which make me heedless." So, guess what? The Buddha didn't think getting loaded was that good an idea either -- the Twelve Steps are, in fact, sila.

Copyright © 2004 Kevin Griffin


While I describe myself as currently dis-enchanted with AA, I believe the steps are a powerful tool for bringing about the psychic change/spiritual awakening the BB talks about. I have trouble with the wording of the steps and the BB, though I agree with what I perceive to be the spirit behind the wording. Although the Chapter 'We Agnostics' tries to make it clear its a God (HP) of your understanding, the rest of the BB is then written from a clearly Christian standpoint which I find off-putting.

I have always been able to draw parallels between Buddhism and the steps and I hope Kevin Griffins book will enable me to reach a deeper understanding of those parallels/similarities...who knows I may even go back to a meeting one day!

[ananda]

I always think of drunkedness as pure samsara - sleeping through life. I want to be awake, and participate in my own life.

Sort of struggled this weekend with flashes of desire to drink like others. So this morning I had to focus on something I was told several years ago...the most compasionate thing I can do for my self and others is to not drink.

I would ditto stoney - but the chapter to the agnostic actually offends me the worst in a way - seems like a trick cause ultimately everyone will find christianity if we just put up with them.

vashti - yeah, i was taught to watch the thoughts float by, stand by the river but don't jump in! sounds like the deamon feeding thing you talked about.

[stone]

Originally Posted by ananda

I would ditto stoney - but the chapter to the agnostic actually offends me the worst in a way - seems like a trick cause ultimately everyone will find christianity if we just put up with them.

LOL, I know what you mean.

[Ngokpa]

I do AA as well, but became quite resistant to AA literature early on, partially because of the way it deals with emotional issues, and partially because of my issues with authority figures. With meditation I could work with my mind and my own experience, and the teachings helped with that.

In "Meditation in Action," Chogyam Trungpa said that having emotions was like having a big field covered with manure. One approach is to haul it off; but it's better to work it into the soul, which is where it gets its richness. I was pretty much hooked after that.

[Sunlight81]

Speaking of parallels... I was at a meeting the other day, they were talking about Higher powers, It had been mentioned that Higher Power could mean He or She or It, when one of my friends shared that his HP was not a He or a She Or an It, it was No-Thing.

[Artur]

This is Awesome!! My sponsor is Buddhist....How we hooked up, is that I was wearing a pendant of "The Awakened One" that I got at a temple in Chinatown in New York...He saw it, and one thing led to another, and now he is my sponsor....
I have always been facinated by the teachings, but didn't start studying until I got clean and sober....
I am looking forward to this very much!

Peace, Love, and Respect,

Artur

[ananda]

hi all - i am struggling with my sponsor and the 9th step. What buddhist readings would you suggest on how to actually make the amend? What have been your experiences of working the 9th with a budhist view? Basically she and I are arguing about words

She wants me to specifically use the words I was wrong. I was not a good friend to you. It's about taking personal responsibility and I want to say what i did was wrong ..... I may be trying to distance myself from my actions. So i'm open to her idea....just want some input if possible.

I feel crazy that this is bothering me. any ideas?

[Artur]

Hi ananda:

Making amends if you may recall is more for you than for the other person according to how it was first implemented..I believe this step is both a psychological one and a spiritual one. We make our ammends to cleanse our minds of hurt we have caused others and in turn forgive ourselves for our wrong to them, thus clensing us spiritually. That's why making amends can be so difficult...We have to be willing to forgive ourselves regardless of whether the other person does or not, and go on knowing that we did our part.

Does that make any sense?

Peace, Love and Respect,
Artur

[ananda]

thanks A,

it sorta makes since. I guess i have been thinking of my "wrongs" as being simply not walking skillfully through my/our karma...something to correct but not really so harsh. Perhaps I am too easy on myself ?compasion toward myself and others?

I'll need to think about your input - it is appreciated greatly!

[Artur]

Ananda:
Where the Karma comes in is a knowledge and awakening within you knowing that we will never have to do that same harm to them or someone else again....that makes your path cleaner and clearer...

[vashti45]

Thanks all for the thoughtful responses.

I'm a real newbie, so I'm not sure I can help, Ananda, with Step 9 questions. I'm still working on my homework from my sponsor on Step 1. Which I need to get to her tomorrow, yikes.

I do think that making amends for me will be a relief; a spiritual and ethical housecleaning.

As for the wording of the BB and the steps, I also have had a negative reaction to them initially. Words have power; if you mean for Higher Power to include No-Thing, the Ground of Being and Consciousness--then how come all the pronouns are male? In fact, a lot of the BB is difficult to translate to a spirituality that doesn't feature an anthropomorphic God, which is why I wanted to start this thread. In California (and perhaps elsewhere) the tradition in AA is to end the meeting with the Lord's Prayer. It's hard to get any more Christian than that, IMHO. But I've been just holding hands and silently thinking: Vast is the robe of liberation. A formless field of benefaction. I will wear the Tathagatha's teachings. Saving all sentient beings.

Gassho,

Jana

[ananda]

v - thats so funny - i do the same thing - great robe of liberation, virtuous field far beyond form and emptiness, wearing the tatagatha's teachings, i vow to save all beings!

Glad someone else is doing it somewhere.

a- Yeah - i think karma (law of cause and effect) changes slowly for me as i work through what i am capable of in each moment....same idea i think. and awareness is the first step, acknowledgement and ammends are a part of it too.

V - for me (definately just my opinion (don't cling!!!!)) the big book is what was written by who it is written by. I just try to take it in context and realize the words are descibing an experience. My experience I will phraze differently as I live within a different time/place/personal karma, etc.

thats what helps me - thanks for sharing!

I joke that I have translator as part of my karma - i have to often translate eastern ideas into my western mind and then western aa into eastern buddhism....but being a translator is not such a bad karma and i can work within that framwork.

Good day!

[vashti45]

Thanks, Ananda. I have actually begun enjoying reading the BB for its concepts, and not clinging (smile) to my ideas of what is phrased poorly, what is obsolete, what is sexist, etc.

I'm feeling extreme gratitude this evening because I moved everything out of the downstairs hall closet, which is not tall but is deep, and made it a meditation space. It gives me a strange sense of peace just have a place of my own to do zazen. I have a picture of my new Tibetan Buddhist teacher (Tsultrim Allione), a Japanese ink drawing, a beautiful framed watercolor painted by my stepson, a Buddha statue of course, flowers, candles, chimes and my meditation cushions. I'm super stoked.

Ciao,

Jana

[stone]

Good morning everyone, nice to see this thread this morning.

Today I am fasting! Yes, fasting! I have never done it before so I am just doing it for the one day. Iam trying to approach it in a spiritual way but am doing it also as I believe it has health benefits. Also it may help me change my attitude to food, I am substituting food for alcohol too much and comfort eating too much.
Sobriety comes first and I dont mind eating chocolate to beat cravings etc but today just for one day I am fasting.

Congrats on your meditation space Vash, sounds cool!

[stone]

And Nands, I dont think it matters what words you use as long as you mean it.

[Rusty Zipper]

stone'y

While I describe myself as currently dis-enchanted with AA

for me, i would say i'm more disenchanted with the rooms, not A.A.

i say A.A. in regards to that little blue book...

ananda, in regards to step 9

one thing is...

after we say what we have to say...

the its not who i was, its what i did part...

i always asked the other person...

have i left anything out?

[ananda]

what a wonderful way to start the day


Thanks all. I have wanted to set up a space for meditation, but my home doesn't seem to have room for a permenant space, so I use a bench and have a wash stand that has my buddha, bell, and incense. Inpermanence...what a concept

Just started trying to give up obvious sweets. I too am doing it for health reasons, but believe there is spiritual benifits to discipline as well....mind & body are not two.

[ananda]

oh yeah -

when is a door not a door?











































When it's a jar

[Sunlight81]

I, for one, think it's important to seperate what we are from what we did.


In liberal SoCal, you're just as likely to hear the Serenity Prayer and at some meetings, the Lord's Prayer will wrinkle some noses.


…“Before enlightenment, I used to be depressed: after enlightenment, I continue to be depressed.” But there’s a difference: I don’t identify with it anymore. Do you know what a big difference that is?

You step outside of yourself and look at that depression, and don’t identify with it. You don’t do a thing to make it go away; you are perfectly willing to go on with your life while it passes through you and disappears. If you don’t know what that means, you really have something to look forward to. And anxiety? There it comes and you’re not troubled. How strange! You’re anxious but you’re not troubled.

Isn’t that a paradox? And you’re willing to let this cloud come in, because the more you fight it, the more power you give it. You’re willing to observe it as it passes by. You can be happy in your anxiety. Isn’t that crazy? You can be happy in your depression. But you can’t have the wrong notion of happiness. Did you think happiness was excitement and thrills? That’s what causes the depression. Didn’t anyone tell you that? You’re thrilled alright, but you’re just preparing the way for the next depression. You’re thrilled but you pick up the anxiety behind that: How can I make it last? That’s not happiness, that’s addiction."
Anthony de Mello, S.J. from Awareness

[ananda]

thank you so much for sharing that Sunlight.....really got me back on base!

Hi gypsy

This thread is going to be such a great help to me.

[stone]

Well, I gave up on the fast...I woke up feeling bad and it got worse throughout the day so I ate. Oh well.

I am a bit like Sunlights post lately though, feeling bad doesnt overwhelm me as much these days. There is a core of me that has some detachment from it...only some but its a start.