Choice?
Member
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 2,966
Wow! Just glanced over this real quickly and what a great thread! I've got to rush,but I'm a double and I'd say my 'switch' to drink was always ON(only focus doc) when I was active. Kinda like one of those(actually thought of this at my meeting today) light switch covers that there's no switch or cords coming from. Basically a plate covering the switch...anyway..If I have one drink/falter in my codie stuff. I DO have a choice to take off the two screws and turn of the power to the switch. As an addict I know sometimes that's very hard to do,but in recovery, I know it is doable. Gotta run... Great thread! 
Member
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 844
Originally Posted by Seren 
Hi Alicia,
I am really exhausted tonight, so that is likely the reason why some of what you are asking is confusing for me. So I am merely clarifying for myself, and maybe you will get something out of it, too. I am asking forgiveness in advance for the 'Novela'.
So, are you wanting to know if your husband, who struggles with addiction, had these choices? Because this list seems to pertain to him, and not you. I suppose that is what I am confused about here. These don't seem to be choices you "As a family member" would be making but choices for your husband.
There is really no way of knowing these answers for him unless you feel that you can have an honest and open conversation with your husband about these questions. As complicated as addiction is, there are as many experiences among recovering addicts about when and how they felt it was a viable choice for them to quit or whether they simply did not want to quit--until they did. I have learned so much from what members have shared on this thread, that my thinking and understanding on this topic have grown considerably over the past 3 days. I suppose posing these questions in the Newcomers or the Alcoholism forums to try to get some insight from recovering alcoholics and addicts themselves might be even more insightful.
I can certainly understand this concern, but again what is confusing me is that it is not the choice of the family member. Maintaining long-term sobriety is something that, sadly, I know only through my sister. (Forgive me my dear sober double and triple winners...I am referring to family members of mine--not to exclude your accomplishments!) She has been clean and sober for more than 15 years. Once she decided that she really needed to quit, she began by going to AA. She went through the steps with a sponsor. She has also received individual counseling. She does not currently attend AA or meet with a counselor, and she is still sober.
I have also read stories written by SR members who felt that their sobriety was in jeopardy because they stopped counseling or attending meetings.
I am sorry, Alicia, but can you clarify whether you are asking a question or making a statement here?
If a question, then I would say yes based on my reading the posts in this community for the past 9 years. It is possible for someone to recover without a structured recovery program of any sort. If a statement, then I would agree with it, certainly.
I don't believe there is a black/white answer to this. No one thing that works for all. Yes, I believe based on what I have read here that some people do recover completely on their own (or at least only by participating in this community).
Some try a variety of recovery tools one after another until they finally find what will work for them.
The really humble, revealing stories told by some of our members has truly expanded my thinking on these topics.
I am really exhausted tonight, so that is likely the reason why some of what you are asking is confusing for me. So I am merely clarifying for myself, and maybe you will get something out of it, too. I am asking forgiveness in advance for the 'Novela'.
So, are you wanting to know if your husband, who struggles with addiction, had these choices? Because this list seems to pertain to him, and not you. I suppose that is what I am confused about here. These don't seem to be choices you "As a family member" would be making but choices for your husband.
There is really no way of knowing these answers for him unless you feel that you can have an honest and open conversation with your husband about these questions. As complicated as addiction is, there are as many experiences among recovering addicts about when and how they felt it was a viable choice for them to quit or whether they simply did not want to quit--until they did. I have learned so much from what members have shared on this thread, that my thinking and understanding on this topic have grown considerably over the past 3 days. I suppose posing these questions in the Newcomers or the Alcoholism forums to try to get some insight from recovering alcoholics and addicts themselves might be even more insightful.
I can certainly understand this concern, but again what is confusing me is that it is not the choice of the family member. Maintaining long-term sobriety is something that, sadly, I know only through my sister. (Forgive me my dear sober double and triple winners...I am referring to family members of mine--not to exclude your accomplishments!) She has been clean and sober for more than 15 years. Once she decided that she really needed to quit, she began by going to AA. She went through the steps with a sponsor. She has also received individual counseling. She does not currently attend AA or meet with a counselor, and she is still sober.
I have also read stories written by SR members who felt that their sobriety was in jeopardy because they stopped counseling or attending meetings.
I am sorry, Alicia, but can you clarify whether you are asking a question or making a statement here?
If a question, then I would say yes based on my reading the posts in this community for the past 9 years. It is possible for someone to recover without a structured recovery program of any sort. If a statement, then I would agree with it, certainly.
I don't believe there is a black/white answer to this. No one thing that works for all. Yes, I believe based on what I have read here that some people do recover completely on their own (or at least only by participating in this community).
Some try a variety of recovery tools one after another until they finally find what will work for them.
The really humble, revealing stories told by some of our members has truly expanded my thinking on these topics.
Im sorry I didnt see that you had replied to my earlier post. And it looks like again what I wrote led to confusion. It was a statement not open ended questions. I shouldn’t have added the ? maybe.
This was what I had originally written as I tried to explain the questions that were going through my mind as my husband binged on alcohol and drugs.
Last year was not one of those times. His use was very heavy and his behaviors got very bad. I stayed with him during a period of time where I should not have done so, as he was completely unstable and unpredictable. I didnt stay because I felt I could help fix him or any such thing. My thinking was that he would snap out of it, correct himself, make the choice to stop and do so. I felt he had that ability even during a time of chaos.
As a family member, when I speak of choice.
Did HE have the choice to stop on is own? HE just didnt want to?
Or did HE only have the choice to admit HE couldnt stop on HIS own?
Or was HE even able to realize the problem/make the decision to seek help?
Then of course as a family member the next concern is DOES MY HUSBAND HAVE THE CHOICE (ABILITY WOULD BE A BETTER WORD) to maintain sobriety long term?
HE can choose not to use again and do so with no outside help?
Or HE decides this isnt something HE can do. picks what assistance HE feels is needed -either in the form of temporary or permanent aid, and chooses to utilize these resources ?
When you say "choice" this is what I think of. It may not be what YOU were thinking, or what anyone else contemplates.
As a family member, when I speak of choice.
Did HE have the choice to stop on is own? HE just didnt want to?
Or did HE only have the choice to admit HE couldnt stop on HIS own?
Or was HE even able to realize the problem/make the decision to seek help?
Then of course as a family member the next concern is DOES MY HUSBAND HAVE THE CHOICE (ABILITY WOULD BE A BETTER WORD) to maintain sobriety long term?
HE can choose not to use again and do so with no outside help?
Or HE decides this isnt something HE can do. picks what assistance HE feels is needed -either in the form of temporary or permanent aid, and chooses to utilize these resources ?
When you say "choice" this is what I think of. It may not be what YOU were thinking, or what anyone else contemplates.
Back when all this was going on .. I wrote out a whole list of questions related to addiction, behaviors, medical questions all in regards to HIM. I also wrote out a whole list of things that I was feeling, ways in which I was questioning my own behavior and responses.
I called up the Dr office and told them what was going on and asked for a referral to a Dr who specialized in addiction medicine, and who also worked with family members because I needed guidance. It was the best decision that I could have made for myself ! I continued to see that Dr for my own therapy discussing MY thoughts, feelings, and the many decisions I needed to make for my health and happiness. I knew I was confused and lost. In my sessions, the Dr. also talked a lot about substance use disorder in general but with more specificity in terms of my husband. It helped me develop my own opinions and find peace of mind.
Since catching up on this thread I see you asked another question about why people make the choice, or what it takes to decide? I assume you are talking about the person who has the alcohol use disorder and their decision to stop once and for all?
I agree with what many said, its different for everyone. But one thing I didnt see mentioned was the actual use of the word "denial". Forgive me if I missed it in there which is possible. This is a huge topic all on its own, the fact that people continue using despite having loads of negative consequences goes back to how the brain is functioning while in active addiction. Its one of the reasons addiction was declared a disease by the medical profession.
Its been very interesting reading all the shares where people explained when there defining moment of change came about, and denial was removed. The problem is that some people never get their moment and I think its because they remain stuck in denial. But you know people can get treatment even if they arent at that critical juncture. It can act as an external input that helps a person reach their turning point.
Im really not sure what prompted my husband to do the initial outpatient program. Maybe my complaints, but I doubt it. This was BEFORE he got really deep into his binge. Was still working and did it for a while at night and on the weekend. But he didnt stick with it and said it was too difficult with a full workload. He said he wanted to go away to rehab, and even picked which one. But he kept getting worse, and I moved out of the house. My leaving didn’t help him but it was good for me. He kept getting worse. And then he had legal issues and his parents rushed him into a local rehab he didnt like. He begged me to help him get out of there and switch to the one he wanted. The attorney worked it out for him once I passed along the message. Fairly good evidence I wasn’t trying to control his choices but was willing to let him figure out what he needed for himself. But then, he didnt even go there! Decided he wanted to work, and would go into therapy. In the meantime he had to attend AA meetings prior to the court approving therapy as a stand alone. He didnt like the meetings. He stuck with therapy, even after he had met the legal requirements to have all charges dismissed. He told me the Dr helped him figure things out for himself. I think that is most likely true because in therapy they often use the process of change model (ever heard of it?), and ask pointed questions to help people look at their lives, set personal goals, motivational techniques to encourage healthy decisions. Its pretty much how my therapy worked also. Choice is an internal thing. We each have to make our own choices, family members included.
I think my husband was better off puttering around and dipping his toe into recovery even if he wasn’t fully dedicated to the process. Those moments of clarity never come for some people and doctors don’t much like the rock bottom approach these days. I know Im influenced by external factors (people, places things), and also internal ones (my own feelings, thoughts). One motto Ive had for a while now is “progress begets progress”. Once I began therapy and I started to feel better, then I wanted to keep working at it. Once I kept working at it and added more components I felt even better and began to have healthier self speak, and more peace in my life. I think the process must be similar for those who are trying to overcome an addiction and get to their healthy place.
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Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 16,246
Alicia......yeah, the change model theory has been around for a pretty long time.....used in a lot of areas....
My husband was in human resources, and I saw a lot of that stuff lying around in his office....
My husband was in human resources, and I saw a lot of that stuff lying around in his office....
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