The pleasant alcoholic

Old 06-26-2017, 11:05 AM
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Originally Posted by hopeful4 View Post
Did you talk to him and say that some people see a counselor who specialize in addiction instead of AA, or coupled w/AA. It is true that AA is not for everyone, however, denial is powerful and he may just be there.

For myself, I went to a counselor who specialized in helping families w/addiction for myself, coupled with Celebrate Recovery, which is a lot like Alanon, but a little different. Both of those things helped me immensely, as does coming here to SR.

Hugs to you.
Yes, many times, he even went to see a specialist like that and took lots of time to speak to a nurse about everything (kind of like an intake) and then he didn't go to the first appointment. He said there were too many drug addicts there and it wasn't the place for him. He also seemed to think they would try to give him medication and was very against that. Hard to understand why ya know? He's putting worse things in his body. I told him he's an adult and nobody can make him do or take something he doesn't want to do but.... like someone else said to me, he may still be in a place of denial and nothing is going to matter right now.
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Old 06-26-2017, 11:18 AM
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I see. He seems to resist any type of treatment options, so until he is ready to embrace recovery for himself, I would say you have done what you can.

Now, focus on YOU.
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Old 06-26-2017, 12:12 PM
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Awwwww..........

Just sending you some soft cyber hugs.

And I am encouraging you to take care of yourself and your children.

Children REALLY suffer when they live in a household with an alcoholic and/or addict. Even a "pleasant/nice" one.

I am encouraging you to get educated about alcoholism and addiction. (I have many alcoholics in my family and an adult son who is addicted to marijuana). (You can search for my post about him).

If possible, try out some Alanon meetings. The meetings are for and about you. Your life, your health and your children .

Also- know that this website is fabulous! Good info, good support, lots of wisdom. (Come often, listen (read), post your thoughts and questions, and learn).

TRUTH:
Alcoholism/Addiction IS Progressive. It WILL get worse.
(Unless the A gets into recovery).

My alcoholic dad was the nicest guy in the world - until the disease started taking over - (progressed).

He tried but could not sustain sobriety. And then......he and life with him and his ultimate death were not pleasant - at all!

How I hope your husband can or will get clean and sober!! In the meantime,I hope you will be taking care of yourself and your children.

Good luck - and I am sending more hugs.
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Old 06-27-2017, 07:42 AM
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AlcSis- I should try some Al-Anon meetings again. I tried a few a couple years ago but always felt worse leaving the meetings than when I went in. It bummed me out and I ended up feeling that it wasn't for me if I left in a funk every time. Maybe I need to try some others.
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Old 06-27-2017, 01:15 PM
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You've done everything possible, now it is up to him. Right now he doesn't feel the urgency of getting sober and it may take a mishap for that to happen. But in the meantime I recommend Alanon, which gave me the hope and strength, the support, to take actions which improved my life.
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Old 06-27-2017, 02:03 PM
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I've heard 'not as bad as other people' from a drunk driver getting them out of jail and ironically they said the samething after seeing one of their friends who just got out of jail & program for substance related offenses.

The pleasant alcoholic might not be violent but they are just as dangerous. I worked with one who wound up with numerous accidents and incidents on the job. For years his drinking was/started as the liquid lunch. His final year before being fired he stopped bar hopping with friends and became so foggy in the mornings he would show up late, drunk, high and/or 'forgot' to pick up people in a car pool who learned real fast he just wasn't 'just' a afternoon-evening drinker.

For years people covered/enabled writing him off as harmless. And were leary to say anything since he needed the job to support his wife and kids.
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Old 06-28-2017, 10:40 AM
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well, AH has a business trip tomorrow back to the town he got sober for 2 years in and mentioned (out of the blue) that he might call his old sponsor. This is the sponsor that was always good at giving him a kick in the arse when needed. My first thought is that it scares me. We have been down this road so many times, I almost don't want him to try again (if that's what comes of it) unless he is 100% committed. Last go around he told me from the beginning that it probably won't stick and to not even tell anyone. If you are going into anything like that, how is it going to be successful? If he's not all in and gives it a go, we are all in for another ride. Eventually I will have to get off.
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Old 06-28-2017, 11:16 AM
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Why do you have to judge whether anything might come of this? Recovery happens in weird ways. My first husband (sober 37 years) had sort of fallen away from AA when he moved across the country. He stayed sober, was doing fine, and then we had a personal family calamity hit. We were already divorced and he was remarried, but our older son encountered a crisis that affected us all. My ex was beside himself, and I asked whether he'd called anyone in the program. It was like a lightbulb went on, and he said, "No, but good idea." He did, it helped get him through it, and he remains very involved in AA today. He often expresses gratitude that I mentioned it when I did.

Sometimes things come together at a certain time, in a certain way, that makes someone ready when they weren't before.

So it doesn't affect you directly either way. Obviously you will be happy if he gets back into recovery, but you don't have to hold your breath to find out if he does. It has no meaning for you unless he's ready to do what he needs to do, and you have no control over that.
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Old 06-28-2017, 11:31 AM
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Originally Posted by LexieCat View Post
Why do you have to judge whether anything might come of this? Recovery happens in weird ways. My first husband (sober 37 years) had sort of fallen away from AA when he moved across the country. He stayed sober, was doing fine, and then we had a personal family calamity hit. We were already divorced and he was remarried, but our older son encountered a crisis that affected us all. My ex was beside himself, and I asked whether he'd called anyone in the program. It was like a lightbulb went on, and he said, "No, but good idea." He did, it helped get him through it, and he remains very involved in AA today. He often expresses gratitude that I mentioned it when I did.

Sometimes things come together at a certain time, in a certain way, that makes someone ready when they weren't before.

So it doesn't affect you directly either way. Obviously you will be happy if he gets back into recovery, but you don't have to hold your breath to find out if he does. It has no meaning for you unless he's ready to do what he needs to do, and you have no control over that.
You are absolutely right. And I know that. It is hard to get your hopes up time and time again and be disappointed so I try to not have too many expectations. This raises another question of which I've always had to be the one to deal with...the kids. My DS doesn't say a lot at 14 but is noticing more and more. My DD who is 17 DOES ask about Dad. For years I've tried to shield them from anything that could hurt them but I don't do it anymore. If they walk out on him smoking, then so be it the consequences are his. Anyhow, they can both see when he's going to meetings daily and when he quits going. They don't ask him about it, they ask me. What is the best thing to say?
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Old 06-28-2017, 11:49 AM
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Jlynn, I'd suggest Alanon for both you and your kids (perhaps Alateen for them if you can find a group). I know you said you tried it and it "left you more bummed out than before." That, to me, doesn't speak of a very healthy group.
Can you explain why this was the case, or what about the meeting made you feel worse?

Also, trying several different groups is generally recommended. They can indeed vary widely, and in fact there was quite a bit of discussion in another thread where the OP mentioned that she was tired of "the same conversation" every time and no real structure or use of the Steps in the meeting she attended. Some of us who've found Alanon useful also suggested to her that she try some different meetings.

While there is a general Alanon format and official Alanon literature that is usually used, each meeting is made up of individuals who have at least some latitude in how they run their meeting. If the format, structure and topics of the meetings aren't helping, try some other meetings. I've found that the meeting at the most convenient time and place for me isn't always the one that turns out to be the most useful.

For instance, I work what is essentially a 3rd shift job, delivering for a bakery, so daytime meetings are by far the best bet for me. Unfortunately, I don't find a lot of meetings between 10 AM and 2 PM in my area, which is my best window for attending, and of those I do find, many are small (I like a somewhat larger group for its diversity) and many are primarily older women whose focus is mostly on continuing to live with an active A rather than getting out and making a life for themselves. That's fine; those are the times and ideas they grew up with. However, they are not mine. And while there is plenty I can still learn from these folks, it isn't the most useful meeting I can go to. Since I don't have unlimited time, I need to find the BEST meeting or two for ME--most bang for the buck. And that may entail staying up later than I really want to or rushing to get off of work to make the meeting or giving up some weekend time when I'd rather just hang out at home.

I hope I haven't wandered too far afield, but I was trying to reply to your question about what to tell your sons. Alanon would be a way for them to be educated and supported while forming their own opinions and ideas; both of them are old enough to do so, I think.
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Old 06-28-2017, 03:20 PM
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Originally Posted by honeypig View Post
Jlynn, I'd suggest Alanon for both you and your kids (perhaps Alateen for them if you can find a group). I know you said you tried it and it "left you more bummed out than before." That, to me, doesn't speak of a very healthy group.
Can you explain why this was the case, or what about the meeting made you feel worse?

Also, trying several different groups is generally recommended. They can indeed vary widely, and in fact there was quite a bit of discussion in another thread where the OP mentioned that she was tired of "the same conversation" every time and no real structure or use of the Steps in the meeting she attended. Some of us who've found Alanon useful also suggested to her that she try some different meetings.

While there is a general Alanon format and official Alanon literature that is usually used, each meeting is made up of individuals who have at least some latitude in how they run their meeting. If the format, structure and topics of the meetings aren't helping, try some other meetings. I've found that the meeting at the most convenient time and place for me isn't always the one that turns out to be the most useful.

For instance, I work what is essentially a 3rd shift job, delivering for a bakery, so daytime meetings are by far the best bet for me. Unfortunately, I don't find a lot of meetings between 10 AM and 2 PM in my area, which is my best window for attending, and of those I do find, many are small (I like a somewhat larger group for its diversity) and many are primarily older women whose focus is mostly on continuing to live with an active A rather than getting out and making a life for themselves. That's fine; those are the times and ideas they grew up with. However, they are not mine. And while there is plenty I can still learn from these folks, it isn't the most useful meeting I can go to. Since I don't have unlimited time, I need to find the BEST meeting or two for ME--most bang for the buck. And that may entail staying up later than I really want to or rushing to get off of work to make the meeting or giving up some weekend time when I'd rather just hang out at home.

I hope I haven't wandered too far afield, but I was trying to reply to your question about what to tell your sons. Alanon would be a way for them to be educated and supported while forming their own opinions and ideas; both of them are old enough to do so, I think.
You asked what it was that bummed me out about the Al-Anon meetings I attended. If I had to say, I suppose it was the folks sharing, a lot of them were stuck on what their qualifier did that week or didn't do and how it affected them. I was looking for more solutions I suppose. Maybe ok to share the bad but what can you do to change that cycle? That's the support I was looking for. You may have hit the point right on the head when you said some meetings you attended had folks in the frame of mind that they would be staying put no matter what. What else would they have to share in that case. I'll consider giving it another go.
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Old 06-28-2017, 09:37 PM
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Originally Posted by JLynn80 View Post
You asked what it was that bummed me out about the Al-Anon meetings I attended. If I had to say, I suppose it was the folks sharing, a lot of them were stuck on what their qualifier did that week or didn't do and how it affected them. I was looking for more solutions I suppose. Maybe ok to share the bad but what can you do to change that cycle? That's the support I was looking for.
Ah, I wondered if it might be something like that. The focus is NOT supposed to be on the qualifier and what they did/didn't do! Alanon meetings are NOT supposed to be a big bit*ch session; that is not the purpose at all, and I'm so sorry that's what you found. Under those circumstances, I totally understand why you would feel it wasn't for you and why it wasn't helpful. You are so right to feel that the focus should be on the solution rather than the problem.

Here are a few suggestions:
1) Check out the main Alanon site here: http://www.al-anon.alateen.org/ There is a ton of information here. If you can spend some time really exploring the site, you'll learn a lot about what Alanon is intended to be and to do. There are some podcasts here: http://al-anon.alateen.org/Podcasts/FirstSteps/

2) Pick up some Alanon literature. You can find lots of used books at Amazon for very reasonable prices. I'd recommend "How Alanon Works" and "Paths to Recovery" as good starting places. There are a number of "daily reader" type books, featuring a topic for each day, too. This can be really useful in learning how Alanon works. Like you, when I first started going, I wanted answers and advice and was confused about how Alanon was supposed to help me if we never talked about our A's! As I attended meetings and read the books, I started to see it. It did take a little time, though.

3) Start trying some other meetings. Now you have some idea how a healthy meeting will look, so if you find that it's a bunch of "gloom and doom" about how awful things are and what the A did this week, you'll know not to waste your time. I think you'll be pleasantly surprised, not to mention uplifted, when you find a healthy meeting!

4) The main Alanon site also talks about Alateen, and you can learn more about that and perhaps suggest it to your boys. As I said, it seems they are old enough to do some learning and thinking for themselves. You setting a good example by finding a useful meeting and going regularly in order to help yourself is going to be important, too.

I hope you follow through on that. For me, Alanon and SR are a powerful combination--each had something to offer that the other didn't, and thus they complemented each other well. I think you may find the same.
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Old 06-29-2017, 06:06 AM
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Agree with honeypig, JLynn. A healthy Al-Anon meeting does NOT focus on the alcoholic, but on the person who is troubled by a loved one's drinking. Often when people are new to the meeting, they feel they must tell their story.
This almost always is a description of the drinkers' shenanigans.
If they keep coming back, they come to see that this is not a place to air grievances. It is a place to heal, learn coping strategies when living with an alcoholic, and how to let go with love and detachment.
My former home group (I have moved) had a newcomer's meeting within the regular meeting.
This allowed the newcomer and one or two experienced Al-Anon members to speak one on one in a separate, private space.
This allowed two things: for the newcomer to tell his/her story in a private forum, and for the experienced members to briefly explain how the fellowship works.
Al-Anon doesn't work for everyone, and I don't want to push, but I would give it one more go.
Go to different meetings. Each meeting has its own vibe. Hopefully, you can find one that works for you.
I found so much peace in those rooms, I can't even tell you.
Good luck.
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