Smarie78

How do we react? Why do I want to jump into codie world when the A still in my life reminds me of how down and out they are? I recently began to try ending things with my Abf - yes, not completely, but a much bigger step that I've ever made. I shared with him that I am done and I have nothing more to give in the relationship a few days ago, much to his rejection, but he admitted today that he knows I want to move on...but then suddenly he began to get very down on himself and tell me how lonely he was without me there. How lonely he feels in general.

He began apologizing to me for all the pain he has caused, saying that he knows everyone would be happier (including myself) if he was dead. That he is no good and has hurt so many people. Obviously outraged at his sentiment I rejected that and told him of course I would never wish such a thing. But the issue I am having that as soon as he began telling me of his lonliness and how he felt people would be better off were he dead, I felt my heart begin to thump and wonder how in the hell can I make him not think those terrible thoughts. How do I comfort him and not make him feel pain or badly? What if he does something? How can I make him un-lonely because I am not physically there with him?

I then thought of it more and instead of giving in to his declarations, I realized that this was feeling again like I was being strung. Of course I am not discounting that he genuinely felt these things, but I did start to feel like it was me who was responsible for making him believe he was loving and worthy even though I spent nearly 2 years doing just that while he was cheating on me and disrespecting my home and my trust, all the things I gave him. I can't tell if the guilt was catching up to him genuinely, or if he was using this to reel me back in.

It still somehow tonight felt like I was the one in charge of comforting him when nobody was comforting me (but well, he needs it more than you because you don't have addiction you know? you can cope, he can't...nobody needs to help you ..you don't have problems. He needs you... what about him? that's what the little codie voice was telling me.

I think it's just really tough no matter how much you detach - it always feels like you are in the drivers seat of their car and as soon as you hand over the wheel they try and make you take it back. I love and care for him deeply, but I sometimes feel so trapped in this even when I think I am making steps to pull away.

Nata1980

Must be manipulation weekend. XAH was trying to pull the same stuff on me. I still have twinges of "poor lonely XAH" but I stop in my tracks. It has to be controlled action, just to say to myself "this is all BS".

His line today was "not everyone has superior coping skills like you do". Yeah right.

By the way - while he still was AH and relapsing - he wrote me "woe is me everyone would be better off if I was dead sad me gonna go get hammered now" letters. Yikes.

You deserve love and care.

Good luck!

amy55

I must say, I really did see a real pity party that he was having for himself.
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He began apologizing to me for all the pain he has caused, saying that he knows everyone would be happier (including myself) if he was dead
__________________________________________________ ________

He wanted to manipulate you there so that you would show empathy, or sympathy there and take him back........................

It's just pure BS....................

Keep saying "NO", and see how fast he turns it into blaming you for everything.

He is playing you.

((((((((((((((hugs)))))))))))))))
amy

Maudcat

Imo, alcholics are the most manipulative people on the planet. The beauty in this, Smarie, is that you see it. You are still responding to it, but you see it. When my AB starts in with his crazy explanations about why he can't (fill in the blank) i just say to myself, and sometimes out loud, "This is not normal behavior. Normal people don't act like this." The most corrosive quality of alcohol dependent people, to me anyway, is their ability to make their wackiness seem okay. Peace.

maia1234

Ugh... been there and done that for years. I finally learned to say "I'm sorry you feel that way" over and over. Thats it, i did not engage any further and I didn't have to tell him what a "great" guy he was.

I do think they are depressed and I do think that some days they do want to die. But we all have choices in life and once they see that their addiction is responsible, we r usually long gone.

atalose

For as long as you believe that somehow you have some kind of power/control over him by saying or doing or acting a certain way, this will continue and you will continue to spin your codie wheels.

He’s doing what addicts do, manipulating and lying for their own selfish advantage. Tonight he pulled out the big guns with the “better off dead thing” and you jumped right into codie mode with thinking how can YOU make him not feel lonely.

In all of the things he said to you to keep you “hooked” where was the mention of a plan to seek help for himself? Did he even mention wanting help and to dedicate himself to making his own life any better?

jojo82

Right or wrong, perhaps he has the right to his own feelings.

No offense, but maybe you are the problem.

Hangnbyathread

Well there manipulation and then there is over compensating or over reacting.

My ex used to take something tiny said and try and go to an extreme to make it pointless to ever say what we felt.

Example. I think the meat was a little overdone. Reaction. Oh well I'll never make it again then.

Or. What do you think of this dress? My response. Hey I think maybe you need to consider trying a different dress as that one isn't very flattering for you.

Which turns into. Whats the matter with my figure.

These become manipulations, by the very nature or the way they cause us to disengage from any exchanges. So yes I guess these manipulate us to that extent.

To me a manipulation is causing you to do something based on false pretenses or intentions.

I entered into a relationship that was based on manipulation. She didn't need me in any aspect of why she claimed.

Smarie78

Of course he has the right to his own feelings. That was not what I was saying. I was simply saying that as a codie it is challenging not to give into being the rescuer when it feels so natural to do so. Because I still have love for this man, I wanted nothing more than to take that painful feeling away, but in doing so would continue the dance of manipulation. So I ask, how do you figure I am the problem? It would help if you provided an actual explanation.

Smarie78

Happy to report that he is fine today. I didn't think he was actually going to do anything or anything bad was going to happen, but boy did I want to go into panic mode again.

atalose - Today he did talk about a meeting he went to and one he is going to tonight, but when he is in his self-loathing mood he does not which is what keeps me from going full on codie. Last night instead of giving in to his bad feelings I asked him to think about, instead of being "better off for everyone dead:, to instead ask himself...."what is in my power to destroy this feeling? If these feelings come from shame in how I have hurt so many, let me un-hurt by being a father again and a partner again and healthy again". But again, only if he wants to - which he has shown he has.

ladyscribbler

OK, great. And how are _you_ today? I think you're reading a lot into a few empty gestures and words. I used to do the same thing. I was desperate for him to be fixed so that our perfect life together could begin. He knew it too, and could calculate the bare minimum amount of effort that would keep me hooked.

I didn't really start healing and developing armor against the manipulation until I started working my own recovery and limiting contact (we have a son, so I couldn't go total no contact, but I have the power to limit our interactions to "business" only and not leave the door open for manipulation and nonsense).

As much as I resented the idea that _I_ might be part of the problem, really, I was contributing half of the relationship dynamic that was keeping us both so sick. He didn't need me to fix things for him, resented the heck out of it, actually, and all I really did was make it easy for him to continue progressing in his alcoholism.

I couldn't do anything to fix his half, but my life has improved by leaps and bounds once I let go of _his_ stuff- his emotions, his choices, his outcomes. I have a lot more to show for my efforts now that they are directed toward fixing _my_ stuff (the things in my life that I can control and change) and building the life I want.

Bekindalways

Hi Smarie and congrats on all your inklings that you are being strung/manipulated by ABF. Yes indeed you are. Also good on you for recognizing the Codie Voice. We don't talk about it as much as the A's talk about the AV (alcohol voice) but man oh man, that CV is seductive.

Also I loved what you said about detachment and the driving metaphor about trying to hand the wheel of the car over to the alcoholic. Most of our experiences coincides with your observation that detachment is not enough. Almost always detachment has to include physical distance. Sticking with your metaphor, most of us had to get out of the car, close the door and walk away.

Non metaphorically this means going no-contact. It's a huge life change. Alcoholics do this when they get sober, stay away from drinking buddies and bars. I've heard of alcoholics even taking detours to avoid going by there favorite liquor store. You may not be ready for no-contact similar to some alcoholics who are not ready to quit drinking.

Let us know how things are going and big hug to you. You are making progress!

Refiner

Oh please. We ALL have the rights to our own feelings and how DARE YOU go there that it's smaries problem!!!! Sounds to me that smaries is entering into "The Dance" the "Merry-Go-Round", the ride that continues until all of eternity until YOU are the one who chooses to exit the dance floor or ride.

jojo82

Hi Smarie

I defended him just to make a point that I hope helps.

Wishing you the best,

jojo


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As a codie I already know that my behaviour affects the behaviour of the one I love.

If my loved ones behaviour is unacceptable to me, I should be looking at my own behaviour and its effect. My loved one is sick. Not me.

I am the problem.

Wanting to remove pain from a loved one is a manifestation of control. I have no control over my loved one. I only control myself.

I am the problem.

It all begins with me.

Only when I take the time to reflect on my own part in all the craziness of my loved ones life will I begin to see things.

The truth is I have never had any control over this person.

I am the problem.

Regardless of my "controlling" behaviour the things I did at best have only had an impact. But these are the things I really want to know the true nature of.

I dig deep within. Really deep. And I don't go alone. I will share this with God and another person.
I will go as deep as it takes taking as long as it takes for both my loved one and myself. Why? Because this person is the love of my life.

The only key I have access to that will help me see the real cause of the crazy behaviour is me.

All I truly control is me.

The sooner I understand my own behaviour and how it affects the love of my life the sooner I can change to help.

I am the problem.

Smarie78

Thank you Jojo82. I had a feeling that's what you meant. Thank you. I know I am the problem of my own...well, problem. Your words are powerful.

NYCDoglvr

What helped me was my Alanon sponsor pointing out that I let myself be manipulated and that he couldn't do it without my participation. I can't control him or anyone else but I can control me, my words and actions.