Need help with AA
Member
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Miami, FL
Posts: 1,701
I have not read the debates on the word here because it does not interest me that much. But every 12-step meeting I ever attended only used the term "recovery." I never in all my years in 12-step recovery ever heard anyone in the program describe themselves as "recovered."
I was always told that we are only in remission and that there is no cure for alcoholism.
And I heard many times the explanation of why we say "recovering" rather than "recovered." And it is something I very much agree with.
I am happy at the variety of interpretations of 12-step recovery that I find on the web, and would never describe what you say as "wrong" because it does not jibe with the very old-school version of AA that I was taught.
By the way, I have gone back to the program--so I am currently involved. The program is very different than it was back in 2000 when I attended my first meeting. But it still is nothing like a lot of what I read here.
I was always told that we are only in remission and that there is no cure for alcoholism.
And I heard many times the explanation of why we say "recovering" rather than "recovered." And it is something I very much agree with.
I am happy at the variety of interpretations of 12-step recovery that I find on the web, and would never describe what you say as "wrong" because it does not jibe with the very old-school version of AA that I was taught.
By the way, I have gone back to the program--so I am currently involved. The program is very different than it was back in 2000 when I attended my first meeting. But it still is nothing like a lot of what I read here.
Member
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 2,126
Miamifella----
You and I have done this dance before. I'm sorry that you seem to be back with AAers who don't seem to understand the BB...............
The TITLE PAGE OF EVERY BIG BOOK STATES............: The Story of How Many Thousands of Men and Women Have RECOVERED from ALCOHOLISM.
If you're not hearing the term 'recovered' perhaps they really aren't AA meetings, or mebbe they just don't believe the BB..........?
I recall hearing the term 'recovering' a lot when I attended a lot of NA meetings, only heard the term 'recovered' in the AA meetings I attended. If I thought I'd be 'recovering' for the rest of my life,......well, I'd be dead by now.....................
(o:
P.S. I am RECOVERED, as I've stated here on SR many times in the past, and to you specifically, Miamifalla.
You and I have done this dance before. I'm sorry that you seem to be back with AAers who don't seem to understand the BB...............
The TITLE PAGE OF EVERY BIG BOOK STATES............: The Story of How Many Thousands of Men and Women Have RECOVERED from ALCOHOLISM.
If you're not hearing the term 'recovered' perhaps they really aren't AA meetings, or mebbe they just don't believe the BB..........?
I recall hearing the term 'recovering' a lot when I attended a lot of NA meetings, only heard the term 'recovered' in the AA meetings I attended. If I thought I'd be 'recovering' for the rest of my life,......well, I'd be dead by now.....................
(o:
P.S. I am RECOVERED, as I've stated here on SR many times in the past, and to you specifically, Miamifalla.
Sober Alcoholic
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 3,539
Originally Posted by miamifella 
I am happy at the variety of interpretations of 12-step recovery that I find on the web, and would never describe what you say as "wrong" because it does not jibe with the very old-school version of AA that I was taught.
I'm glad you are attempting meetings again. I might be wrong, but it seems to me that you have a tendency to jump to conclusions and then get stuck in them. It's something to consider anyway. I don't think AA itself has changed that much in the past decade an a half, but I sincerely hope that you now find it better suited to your needs.
12 Step Recovered Alcoholic
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 6,613
Hi Vince, I don't know if I have said this before in this thread, the rest of it has been so interesting, but my experience was that it was imossible to wrap my head around the steps" with the possible exception of the first two.
Step one identifies the problem, step two the solution. I did a number of step 2s in my life, believing that all sorts of things could fix me. None did until I found the spiritual path in AA. Once I had identified the solution i.e, that maybe the same power that worked for these other folks could possibly work for me too, and I was willing to go to any lengths to find out, I was ready to take certain steps.
I took the steps in a kind of leap of faith. Action came first, then understanding followed, and it deepens over time. As I reflect on my journey, I often see how a particular step worked in a way I was not even aware of at the time.
So I suppose it comes down to my faith in human nature, did I believe what I saw with my own eyes, did I believe what these people were telling me about their lives? Well, yes I did and I wanted some.
Step one identifies the problem, step two the solution. I did a number of step 2s in my life, believing that all sorts of things could fix me. None did until I found the spiritual path in AA. Once I had identified the solution i.e, that maybe the same power that worked for these other folks could possibly work for me too, and I was willing to go to any lengths to find out, I was ready to take certain steps.
I took the steps in a kind of leap of faith. Action came first, then understanding followed, and it deepens over time. As I reflect on my journey, I often see how a particular step worked in a way I was not even aware of at the time.
So I suppose it comes down to my faith in human nature, did I believe what I saw with my own eyes, did I believe what these people were telling me about their lives? Well, yes I did and I wanted some.
Member
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: northern michigan. not the U.P.
Posts: 15,281
i remember early on being able to read," how it works" without even looking at it. i heard it a lot and read it a lot. i knew there was something in that.
at a meeting once i read "how it works" without having it in front of me. didnt miss anything. a man with a lot of years said," dam thats good."
i said, "welp, it really doesnt mean crap because i dont understand it!"
he said," if you keep comin back, keep listening like you are, you will."
i see now the problem was the bb was written with the proper use of the english language and composition. i wasnt used to that.
at a meeting once i read "how it works" without having it in front of me. didnt miss anything. a man with a lot of years said," dam thats good."
i said, "welp, it really doesnt mean crap because i dont understand it!"
he said," if you keep comin back, keep listening like you are, you will."
i see now the problem was the bb was written with the proper use of the english language and composition. i wasnt used to that.
Member
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: northern michigan. not the U.P.
Posts: 15,281
This man and over one hundred others appear to have recovered
who have since recovered,
He knows that thousands of men, much like himself, have recovered.
Yet often such men had spectacular and powerful recoveries.
...We, OF Alcoholics Anonymous, are more than one hundred men and women who have recovered from a seemingly hopeless state of mind and body.
PRECISELY HOW WE HAVE RECOVERED is the main purpose of this book.
To watch people recover,
but many of them do recover
as a person who has recovered.
We, who have recovered from serious drinking,
we have recovered from a hopeless condition of mind and body.
justa few
i have recovered from that hopeless state because i worked the steps and have been restored to sanity.
if i was still recovering id still be insane.
who have since recovered,
He knows that thousands of men, much like himself, have recovered.
Yet often such men had spectacular and powerful recoveries.
...We, OF Alcoholics Anonymous, are more than one hundred men and women who have recovered from a seemingly hopeless state of mind and body.
PRECISELY HOW WE HAVE RECOVERED is the main purpose of this book.
To watch people recover,
but many of them do recover
as a person who has recovered.
We, who have recovered from serious drinking,
we have recovered from a hopeless condition of mind and body.
justa few
i have recovered from that hopeless state because i worked the steps and have been restored to sanity.
if i was still recovering id still be insane.
Member
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Miami, FL
Posts: 1,701
I really do not draw conclusions much--I am a bit too literal for that, I just repeat what I hear from the rooms and from sponsors. I really thought AA was against the term recovered since it was so often spoken against at meetings over the years.
I came back to AA looking for the AA that I have been reading about here. I have not found anything like what is described in SR. My second meeting back was everyone sharing about how you cannot help someone when they have the urge to use or drink. So I start to wonder if what I am reading here is really out there. Some people on SR have told me there are meetings in my area that are different...but no one has ever been able to point me to any specific one, so I wonder if they really are out there.
I came back to AA looking for the AA that I have been reading about here. I have not found anything like what is described in SR. My second meeting back was everyone sharing about how you cannot help someone when they have the urge to use or drink. So I start to wonder if what I am reading here is really out there. Some people on SR have told me there are meetings in my area that are different...but no one has ever been able to point me to any specific one, so I wonder if they really are out there.
Member
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Miami, FL
Posts: 1,701
Maybe this is stupid, but do you people really consider yourself cured of alcoholism?
This is so far from what I have ever heard in the rooms that I am shocked. We were always told that we could only face remission but that we would always be alcoholics or addicts.
Seeing people in the program call themselves "recovered" is the biggest shock I have ever had here.
If you are recovered, do you still take part in the program? If you do, do you identify yourself as an alcoholic?
It just seems so risky to say that your alcoholism is over and done. One thing I have always heard was that our recovery is "one day at a time." I always thought that recovery was a life long process. Even the steps suggest that the process is ongoing and never over,
This is so far from what I have ever heard in the rooms that I am shocked. We were always told that we could only face remission but that we would always be alcoholics or addicts.
Seeing people in the program call themselves "recovered" is the biggest shock I have ever had here.
If you are recovered, do you still take part in the program? If you do, do you identify yourself as an alcoholic?
It just seems so risky to say that your alcoholism is over and done. One thing I have always heard was that our recovery is "one day at a time." I always thought that recovery was a life long process. Even the steps suggest that the process is ongoing and never over,
Member
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: northern michigan. not the U.P.
Posts: 15,281
recovered and cured have 2 different meanings.
i went through chemo and recovered from that, but not cured of cancer.
i dont take part in the program. i live it.
i am still an alcoholic just as im still a cancer fighter.
its all in the book.
if i listened to people at meetings all the time i would have a serious misconception of the program, too.
and the bb says theres conditions for me to stay recovered.
i went through chemo and recovered from that, but not cured of cancer.
i dont take part in the program. i live it.
i am still an alcoholic just as im still a cancer fighter.
its all in the book.
if i listened to people at meetings all the time i would have a serious misconception of the program, too.
and the bb says theres conditions for me to stay recovered.
Member
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Miami, FL
Posts: 1,701
Originally Posted by tomsteve
recovered and cured have 2 different meanings.
i went through chemo and recovered from that, but not cured of cancer.
i dont take part in the program. i live it.
i am still an alcoholic just as im still a cancer fighter.
its all in the book.
if i listened to people at meetings all the time i would have a serious misconception of the program, too.
and the bb says theres conditions for me to stay recovered.
i went through chemo and recovered from that, but not cured of cancer.
i dont take part in the program. i live it.
i am still an alcoholic just as im still a cancer fighter.
its all in the book.
if i listened to people at meetings all the time i would have a serious misconception of the program, too.
and the bb says theres conditions for me to stay recovered.
Recovered in the usual sense means cured. If you say you have recovered from cancer itself that means you do not have it any more--you are cured. I was always told that alcoholism is a chronic condition. What we get is remission. It is more like diabetes or MS--maladies that can be managed and minimized but that it is a disease which one can never recover from.
But I am starting to suspect that people are not using recovered in the usual sense.
Member
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 2,775
Member
Join Date: May 2012
Location: canada
Posts: 7,242
Originally Posted by miamifella
Maybe this is stupid, but do you people really consider yourself cured of alcoholism?
This is so far from what I have ever heard in the rooms that I am shocked. We were always told that we could only face remission but that we would always be alcoholics or addicts.
Seeing people in the program call themselves "recovered" is the biggest shock I have ever had here.
If you are recovered, do you still take part in the program? If you do, do you identify yourself as an alcoholic?
It just seems so risky to say that your alcoholism is over and done. One thing I have always heard was that our recovery is "one day at a time." I always thought that recovery was a life long process. Even the steps suggest that the process is ongoing and never over,
This is so far from what I have ever heard in the rooms that I am shocked. We were always told that we could only face remission but that we would always be alcoholics or addicts.
Seeing people in the program call themselves "recovered" is the biggest shock I have ever had here.
If you are recovered, do you still take part in the program? If you do, do you identify yourself as an alcoholic?
It just seems so risky to say that your alcoholism is over and done. One thing I have always heard was that our recovery is "one day at a time." I always thought that recovery was a life long process. Even the steps suggest that the process is ongoing and never over,
if you were to read the book again, thoroughly and slowly and very attentively, you'd find all the phrases tomsteve mentioned. all the mentions of people being recovered.
not cured.
i'm clear on that for myself.
i'm recovered from the obsession, from the need to drink.
i'm not cured of alcoholism as such. and yes, i identify as an alcoholic. that's what i am. meaning: my alcoholism isn't over and done. it's a 'condition' i have and will always have., but it's not active. these are poor words, but the only ones i can use at this moment.
Member
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: glasgow scotland
Posts: 1,004
Originally Posted by miamifella
So if I get your analogy, you do not say you are recovered from alcoholism (cancer) but rather recovered from AA (chemo)? I do not think that is what others here mean.
Recovered in the usual sense means cured. If you say you have recovered from cancer itself that means you do not have it any more--you are cured. I was always told that alcoholism is a chronic condition. What we get is remission. It is more like diabetes or MS--maladies that can be managed and minimized but that it is a disease which one can never recover from.
But I am starting to suspect that people are not using recovered in the usual sense.
Recovered in the usual sense means cured. If you say you have recovered from cancer itself that means you do not have it any more--you are cured. I was always told that alcoholism is a chronic condition. What we get is remission. It is more like diabetes or MS--maladies that can be managed and minimized but that it is a disease which one can never recover from.
But I am starting to suspect that people are not using recovered in the usual sense.
Hi I identify myself as My name is Stevie I am a recovered alcoholic .
After step 9 it says in the BB (off top of my head to busy to look ) ''the obsession has been removed , we have been restored to sanity , we have recovered from alcoholism ''.. recovered also means got well , recovering means not yet well , no we are not cured basically we have a daily reprieve , obsession removed , think about phenomenon of craving , mental obsession , psychical craving 3 symptoms of alcoholism , alcohol is only one of the symptoms ..
Recovered from a hopeless state of mind and body ''does not mention alcohol '' that is the message of alcoholics anonymous which the 12th Step states , ''having had a spiritual awakening '' that is ''the AA message ''. and trying to help others and practicing the principles in all of our affairs
Psychic Change is different from spiritual experience imho .
, obsession been removed and restored to sanity ==recovered . Spiritual Awakening is also different
Like you but for near 33 years I never heard recovered either , but then again I was not interested in any way with the AA program , dismissed any one who mentioned steps god higher power and program , otherwise untreated alcoholism , unteachable , and a dry drunk . now I know a bit better , people had mentioned recovered but I never heard them , also I do not believe I heard the word recovering either , all I ever heard was the word ''alcoholic '' again not interested our listening .
Miamifellow , hope this spurs you into action now you know what AA is really about , but knowing is not enough if you get my drift , take care .
Regards Stevie recovered 12 03 2006
Member
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 2,126
Originally Posted by miamifella
...I just repeat what I hear from the rooms and from sponsors. I really thought AA was against the term recovered since it was so often spoken against at meetings over the years...I start to wonder if what I am reading here is really out there.
Originally Posted by tomsteve
...its all in the book.
if i listened to people at meetings all the time i would have a serious misconception of the program, too.
if i listened to people at meetings all the time i would have a serious misconception of the program, too.
(o:
Member
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 2,126
Originally Posted by miamifella
...do you people really consider yourself cured of alcoholism?...
Originally Posted by miamifella
...This is so far from what I have ever heard in the rooms that I am shocked. Seeing people in the program call themselves "recovered" is the biggest shock I have ever had here...
Originally Posted by miamifella
...One thing I have always heard was that our recovery is "one day at a time." I always thought that recovery was a life long process...
The terms 'recovered' and 'cured' are not synonymous; similar, yes, but not the same; at least not in my dictionaries. According to my dictionaries, neither is listed as a synonym for the other.
(o:
P.S. As stated earlier, verify anything and everything with AA literature; not what you hear at meetings; not what your sponsor says; not what's written here. Verify; if it doesn't verify, it's probably not AA.
Member
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: northern michigan. not the U.P.
Posts: 15,281
Originally Posted by miamifella
So if I get your analogy, you do not say you are recovered from alcoholism (cancer) but rather recovered from AA (chemo)? I do not think that is what others here mean.
Recovered in the usual sense means cured. If you say you have recovered from cancer itself that means you do not have it any more--you are cured. I was always told that alcoholism is a chronic condition. What we get is remission. It is more like diabetes or MS--maladies that can be managed and minimized but that it is a disease which one can never recover from.
But I am starting to suspect that people are not using recovered in the usual sense.
Recovered in the usual sense means cured. If you say you have recovered from cancer itself that means you do not have it any more--you are cured. I was always told that alcoholism is a chronic condition. What we get is remission. It is more like diabetes or MS--maladies that can be managed and minimized but that it is a disease which one can never recover from.
But I am starting to suspect that people are not using recovered in the usual sense.
read my post up a bit-the one that has a few lines with "recovered" in it.
i never said i recovered from cancer.
imo, it reads like you could use some bb study meetings with people that truly understand what the bb says.
i have recovered from the hopeless state of mind and body that alcoholism brought on.
Member
Join Date: May 2012
Location: canada
Posts: 7,242
I have not read the debates on the word here because it does not interest me that much.
mf, was thinking of this later today. you might look for those threads and read them. it's not about the words, but about the concepts behind them, about what they stand in for.
just a thought.
if you went back and found some of those threads, your understanding about what people are talking about when they/we contrast recovered and cured would likely grow, and you might get a whole different view of what you've believed to be "true" so far.
mf, was thinking of this later today. you might look for those threads and read them. it's not about the words, but about the concepts behind them, about what they stand in for.
just a thought.
if you went back and found some of those threads, your understanding about what people are talking about when they/we contrast recovered and cured would likely grow, and you might get a whole different view of what you've believed to be "true" so far.
12 Step Recovered Alcoholic
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 6,613
Originally Posted by NoelleR
P.S. As stated earlier, verify anything and everything with AA literature; not what you hear at meetings; not what your sponsor says; not what's written here. Verify; if it doesn't verify, it's probably not AA.
Actually I am reminded of an event a year ago. A very large and angry man took the wind out of my sails after a meeting by telling me in a very forthright manner that it wasn't possible to be recovered (recover) from alcholism. Right at that moment the truth was that it wasn't possible for him to recover. He got drunk that night.
Those who do not recover are people who cannot or will not completely give themselves to this simple program. I bought the whole program and I understand what it means to be recovered, and why it is so important in our message of hope to let others know it is possible for them to recover as well.
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